Wolverhampton v Liverpool

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I didn't label a reason. And yes you are right, without Scott's input - flawed and blindly opinionated as it is - these 'debates' would not occur.

Sorry, I was just stating that if Scott could stop trying to create arguements in these threads, as you said, 'these debates would not occur'.

---------- Post added at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 PM ----------

well, his facts where wrong. just like him at liverpool.

How can his facts be wrong? They were facts :S
 
For me, this season is a write-off; that doesn’t mean giving up on the two cups, but all I want now is a top four finish (which should be possible) and a chance -- please -- to start afresh next season with all the turmoil a thing of the past.

I take everything connected with the club far more personally these days; maybe all fans do to varying degrees, but feeling expected to write about every significant issue (either from the pressure I put on myself, or from emails I receive, some requesting my take on things, others more confrontational) takes it’s toll. But it’s also hard for me to stay quiet, particularly when I read something really stupid being written about the club. My instinct is to leap to the defence of the player or manager who is being unfairly criticised.

It’s impossible to judge the performance of the team right now, because it’s an almost unworkable situation. Talk that the off-the-field issue won’t affect the players makes no sense; it won’t turn them into rubbish footballers overnight, but you need an atmosphere conducive to success from top to bottom, and clearly that isn’t the case right now. For example, Spurs were doing really well under Martin Jol until last summer, when his position was undermined.

No matter what he then did, that team were a mess until he was finally replaced. I’m not saying that Benítez needs to be replaced; quite the opposite, in fact.

I can’t think of one club that has succeeded on the pitch while there’s been this much unrest off it. Indeed, clubs have faltered with far less disruption. As well as Martin Jol, the recent list pretty much proves that Benítez stands no chance of getting the team to anywhere near its true level unless things are resolved behind the scenes. Manchester United suffered during the Glazer takeover, although that was far less painful than this. They did fairly well in the league, finishing 2nd, but went out of the Champions League at the group stage just a few months after the takeover. The club also had problems when Ferguson was planning to retire; the uncertainty affected the team.

Everton were a mess until they got the stability of Kenwright and Moyes as a partnership; Moyes’ first few seasons were very up and down (big highs, terrible lows), but after six years he’s finally establishing them as a decent side. Newcastle have moved from one crisis to another, while moving from one manager to another. And as soon as Mourinho and Abramovich fell out, that was the end of Chelsea as a real force, as Manchester United overtook them.

Benítez isn’t so much as a dead man walking as a neutered manager working in limbo; even if Gillett and Hicks now believed in him 100%, no-one would ever believe it, short of the most remarkable gesture. Uncertainty helps no-one. Stability and security are needed to thrive. You need relaxed players, not those carrying a weight of pressure; nervousness breeds failure. And you need a manager who is in total control.

So much of football is psychological, be it confidence or belief or a relaxed state of mind, and that becomes even more complicated when it’s an issue surrounding the whole club.

It’s been a season of bimonthly catastrophucks to derail progress: September, with the departure of Pako Ayesteran just as the team were purring; November, with the big Rafa/owners fallout; and January, the Klinsmann revelations and the whole thing going nuclear. No team can flourish in such circumstances.

Clearly there’s a lot that’s right with the team, in amongst all the shortcomings. Indeed, with such a strong youth team, and the reserve team also doing so well, there’s a lot right with all the teams. There are a number of world-class and top-class players in the first team squad. There may be a few not cutting the mustard, but as I’ve said before, there’s no-one clearly taking (or on) the ****. Just like Arsene Wenger, it doesn’t matter how many mistakes Benítez makes in the market, he always lands one, two or three stars each season.

The senior side is proving hard to beat, and is keeping going to the end of matches to score late goals.

There is far more attacking talent on the books this year, with Torres in particular, and then Babel and Benayoun (the pair have seven goals each which, given they’ve been in and out of a side they are new to, is very good by January. If not totally exceptional, then certainly an improvement on the output of Gonzalez and Pennant, and more like having two Luis Garcias instead of one).

The issue of who partners Torres is still unresolved, and maybe that’s an issue for the summer, if no-one puts down a firm marker in the meantime (the difficulty with Crouch being that, like Torres, he’s best as the spearhead, and no top team players with two of those these days). But despite some problems, the team have scored four or more goals nine occasions now (only one of those against really inferior opposition), and can clearly take teams apart, once the two-goal margin is in place.

But at present the side clearly has a big mental block when that second goal isn’t scored. And no manager alive can act to definitively remove such a block; the team needs to retain its belief, and even if it gets lucky holding on for a couple of 1-0 wins, doing so will go a long way to ridding the ‘curse’. It’s particularly true at Anfield, where Benítez had such a strong record before this season. There’s no reason why that can’t return once the cloud is lifted. But with the cloud, it will be extra difficult.

Whatever their intentions when they pitched up, the whole situation regarding the fans has backfired on Gillett and Hicks to a spectacular degree. They may choose to cut their losses -- or rather, make off with their winnings; or they may opt to stick around for the long-haul, either to try and turn things around (however unlikely that may seem with fan opinion so low), or to further expand their chances of a windfall years down the line. Right now, I have no idea what it’ll be.

I still have some doubts about DIC, and find myself a little uncomfortable at the way they’re being treated as saviours without having actually done anything to merit that.

But while I believe it’s possible things could get worse whoever is in charge, if they did buy the club it would certainly give the clean slate and fresh start that would be almost impossible now under the current regime, no matter what the Americans attempted by way of pacifying the fans. Even if they tried everything possible, I don’t know how Kopites would ever trust them again. It’s easy to see why fans are clinging to the hope that DIC, with the money being their own and a genuine fan running the organisation, would be a better bet right now.

I admire you, just for writing all that ;)

Apprently Rafa will get money in the summer so it can't be all bad, he has too finish in the top four though and let Gerrard recover from his injury properly instead of putting him on pain killing drugs.
 
I admire you, just for writing all that ;)

Apprently Rafa will get money in the summer so it can't be all bad, he has too finish in the top four though and let Gerrard recover from his injury properly instead of putting him on pain killing drugs.


Oh trust me I didn't write that, I'd love it if I could though. That was from the Paul Tomkins blog where he actually writes a lot of good stuff about Liverpool etc.

So I've heard on the rumour mill is that we will have money to spend and I think rest Gerrard for now and let Aquilani get in some more game time I think.
 
Bigal24, why did you post that article? It's from last season right:P (i might be wrong)
 
Okay lets put this into content.

The 'rant' being the reason for Liverpool's downfall last season is largely overplayed. It was more the fact the 'rant' was ignored and Ferguson and United were still given very generous decisions which turned a few vital games for them.

Lee somehow blames the officials for liverpool not winning the league.

Yes lets go into how right tht rant was or how the refs helped united win the league. Not Liverpool dropping 10 points or wot eva it was to bottom half of the table clubs at home in the 2nd half of last season.

For a minute there i actually thought it was liverpools fault, Silly me must of been the rest of the world was wrong.

I argue tht point

Sorry but I know it's your own opinion which I respect but how is this the real Liverpool? Liverpool have been in the top four for last 10 years and more, no way this is the real Liverpool.
Max states something
Just to inform you. everton finished there in 2004. :P

I jokingly respond to him. hence the tongue.

Ok are you saying that every single team is immune to dropping points? Oh no that's right, yes teams do drop points but when it is Liverpool other fans swarm like vultures to make sure that they **** off Liverpool fans when all they do is look at results and not the performance etc or other circumstances. The 'rant' which wasn't even a rant proved to people that Rafa could stand up and be counted and for once he was the only person that actually went against Ferguson which immediately villified him amongst the media.

Bigal Mis understands wot i said. and starts play the victim.

No i was not saying tht. I was saying that lee somehow pointed to official for liverpool not winning the title last season. why i pointed out the actual reason.

and when utd lose the same lines always come out.

" if ronaldo was there", " your not the same team". even " fergie is losing it"

so dont start thinking it is just you liverpool fans who get it.

I respnod by telling him wot i meant. and then say we all get it.

I think the fact he did a press conference about manchester uniteds manager, when we wherent evening playing them. shows a sight of a strange mindset.

I then respond to somethign about tht rant.

You mean like Ferguson in his pre-match press conference (for Fulham I think) where he started talking about the money Liverpool spent on transfers. Where he took numbers from a piece of paper he brought with him. All the figures happened to be incorrect... oh and guess what, Man Utd went onto lose the game.

At least Rafa had facts.

Lee then goes off topic and talks about fergusons mistakes or rants in the past.

well, his facts where wrong. just like him at liverpool.

i then say tht benitez was wrong in wot he said. just going to put tht out there. Rafa= new King kev.

wrong. he was asked a question about it.

i then respond to bigal comment about fergie.



Now it wouldnt let me put everything in. but some how i am being played out as the bad guy here.

explain please.
 
Yeah it is but it is exactly the same concept which is what I'm trying to get at.
 
Sorry, I was just stating that if Scott could stop trying to create arguements in these threads, as you said, 'these debates would not occur'.

---------- Post added at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 PM ----------



How can his facts be wrong? They were facts :S


His facts, arent right, cause they wherent facts. they might of been in his head. but irl they wherent.

---------- Post added at 10:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------

I didn't label a reason. And yes you are right, without Scott's input - flawed and blindly opinionated as it is - these 'debates' would not occur.


oh the master of balanced opinions. speaks. or NOT
 
Yeah it is but it is exactly the same concept which is what I'm trying to get at.
That you've had two write off seasons in a row?(6)
only joking.(A)
I thought i had read this before, plus it talks about crouch and liverpool being in two cups.XD
 
Bigal, I can see a lot of truth in that blog but Rafa has been extremely poor in the market in my opinion, I don't think he has spent the money he has been given that well but yeah I know alot will disagree.
 
Dear Scott,


1. Lee somehow blames the officials for liverpool not winning the league.

1. Lee didn't say that, he said that the ''Rafa rant'' didn't contribute to us losing the league title. It was some refereeing decisions amongst other factors.


2. Bigal Mis understands wot i said. and starts play the victim.

2. I didn't misunderstand at all, Liverpool are victimised more than anyone if we get one bad result. Use this forum for example after every time Liverpool drop points there are threads like this with 3-4+ pages worth of comments but when United/Arsenal/Chelsea lose or draw it is only a blip apparently.


3. Lee then goes off topic and talks about fergusons mistakes or rants in the past.

3. No, you initially went off topic. I thought the thread was about todays game Liverpool v Wolves and not talking about Rafa being ****

4. i then say tht benitez was wrong in wot he said. just going to put tht out there. Rafa= new King kev.

4. How was he wrong? The facts are technically truth no? I thought they would seeing as you constantly refer to the FACTS.

5. i then respond to bigal comment about fergie.

5. It is true though, all of Fergie's ''arselickers'' gang up on Benitez and the only person that stood up for Benitez was Roberto Martinez at the start of this season.

And that is why.

Yours truly,
Bigal
 
Proving to people that rafa could stand up and be counted worked well...................

The only reason people talk about it is because it's not like this is a one off or something you have dropped as many points this season as last(i think).:O

Plus it's not like when other top four teams drop points no one says anything. If i'm not imagining things arsenal were ruled out of the title race a few weeks ago and whenever we lose or draw the threads are full of people saying we lack creativity and aren't the same team. So you really are not being victimised.

2. Bigal Mis understands wot i said. and starts play the victim.

2. I didn't misunderstand at all, Liverpool are victimised more than anyone if we get one bad result. Use this forum for example after every time Liverpool drop points there are threads like this with 3-4+ pages worth of comments but when United/Arsenal/Chelsea lose or draw it is only a blip apparently.

You really aren't victimised. This is much more than a blip, your form has been consistently average/poor relatively.
 
Dear bigal.

My very first post. was saying good bye to Rafa After TODAYS RESULT i said some nice things, like we never forgot you. and thank him for the rant. TONGUE IN CHEEK. lee took it seriuosly then mentioned 2 off fergusons rants.

I then responded very TONGUE IN CHEEK AGAIN. by saying another rant, the word FACT was used muliple times. i then said it isnt talk about tht often but you should all know it. all very TONGUE IN CHEEK. lee then started talking about how the rant was right and how the officials where to blame.
so how i started this i will never know. Becuase again something i said was taken to seruiosly or because you wanted an excuse

---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 PM ----------

I didn't label a reason. And yes you are right, without Scott's input - flawed and blindly opinionated as it is - these 'debates' would not occur.

I don't understand... :( Can someone help me out here? oO)

You called my Input-- flawed and opinionated. so i responded by saying you where not so balanced you self, in a sarcy way.
 
You really aren't victimised. This is much more than a blip, your form has been consistently average/poor relatively.

He never said we were in a blip he said when we lose or draw fans get on Liverpools back more than they would get on United, Chelsea or Arsenals backs, whereas when another major team such as United get a bad result it is just a blip, take the Leeds game for example.
 
Is someone going to close this thread..... It will just get closed later, nearly all of them do.:S
 
Take the villa game, fulham game or even the burnley game. all the same for every team.
 
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