2011 Copa América Discussion Thread.
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luke the blanco
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There is a simple explanation for this.... Messi the cocky lil ******* wants to be the centre piece, Batista thinks by making him the playmaker he will create chances and score goals... but messi is too selfish and yea i'll get stick for this but not decisive enough to be a playmaker.... with pastore in his role and messi centre di maria left and levezzi right they would conquer.... but hey just had to mention this....Messi better than ron because Ron doesn't perform internationally? think you haters should think again
My two pence:
Argentina suffer from a lack of drive in the centre of midfield. Cambiasso and Mascherano are world-class defensive midfielders, but having both of them in leaves the team unbalanced. Neither provides the splitting runs that the likes of Iniesta make, meaning that nobody can combine with Messi from deeper positions. Banega is fine, but either his passing is long due to there not being anyone making a run from midfield (it isn't his job, he's more the Xavi-esque creator from deep) or Messi is forced to drop ridiculously deep and gets taken out of the game. If Batista wants to recreate this team in the image of Barca (which he does, apparently, and that's why I am comparing Argentina to them) then he needs to remove one of Cambiasso or Mascherano and bring in a midfielder who can drive from midfield: Pastore is the obvious one, but past him Argentina seem a little short.
---------- Post added at 07:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 AM ----------
Lol what? That's just ridiculous. Saying Messi is selfish is stupid enough, but calling him 'not decisive enough to be a playmaker' is bordering on insanity.
Argentina suffer from a lack of drive in the centre of midfield. Cambiasso and Mascherano are world-class defensive midfielders, but having both of them in leaves the team unbalanced. Neither provides the splitting runs that the likes of Iniesta make, meaning that nobody can combine with Messi from deeper positions. Banega is fine, but either his passing is long due to there not being anyone making a run from midfield (it isn't his job, he's more the Xavi-esque creator from deep) or Messi is forced to drop ridiculously deep and gets taken out of the game. If Batista wants to recreate this team in the image of Barca (which he does, apparently, and that's why I am comparing Argentina to them) then he needs to remove one of Cambiasso or Mascherano and bring in a midfielder who can drive from midfield: Pastore is the obvious one, but past him Argentina seem a little short.
---------- Post added at 07:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 AM ----------
There is a simple explanation for this.... Messi the cocky lil ******* wants to be the centre piece, Batista thinks by making him the playmaker he will create chances and score goals... but messi is too selfish and yea i'll get stick for this but not decisive enough to be a playmaker.... with pastore in his role and messi centre di maria left and levezzi right they would conquer.... but hey just had to mention this....Messi better than ron because Ron doesn't perform internationally? think you haters should think again
Lol what? That's just ridiculous. Saying Messi is selfish is stupid enough, but calling him 'not decisive enough to be a playmaker' is bordering on insanity.
Pastore is what Argentina needs now IMO. Messi drops too deep its impossible to play his natural game. Pastore is good at carrying ball from deep and spraying passes. I think Messi wont be effective in his Barca role for Argentina. Messi should play as RW or RF where he used to play before last season and Pastore should occupy the Central play maker role.
Mascha/Cambiasso Banega
Messi Pasotre Di Maria
Higuain
In a 4-2-3-1
or 4-3-3
Mascha/Cambiasso
Banega ---Pastore
Messi----------------------Di Maria
Higuain
Messi Pasotre Di Maria
Higuain
In a 4-2-3-1
or 4-3-3
Mascha/Cambiasso
Banega ---Pastore
Messi----------------------Di Maria
Higuain
Aguero can play Di Maria role and if Tevez starts then Messi, Tevez, Aguero all can interchange positions making it tough to mark them out of the game. But Banega and Pastore should play.
luke the blanco
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You mis-understand my logic... he is the most decisive finisher i know... but to pick out the killer ball? nah He is not a playmaker and may never be... pastore is the complete package... he is not superb in any one function of attacking play but is great at most.... in essence what im trying to point out that Messi like renoldo doesn't perform on int duty... people like to only see the bad in ronaldo and the good in messi
Sorry if I misunderstood your point but Xavi and Iniesta > Banega and Cambiasso. Those two are not bad players, Cambiasso is one of the best def mid. But the reason why's Barca so strong isn't Messi, its Xavi and Iniesta.
There is a simple explanation for this.... Messi the cocky lil ******* wants to be the centre piece, Batista thinks by making him the playmaker he will create chances and score goals... but messi is too selfish and yea i'll get stick for this but not decisive enough to be a playmaker.... with pastore in his role and messi centre di maria left and levezzi right they would conquer.... but hey just had to mention this....Messi better than ron because Ron doesn't perform internationally? think you haters should think again
nonsense. like any forward, if you get no supply, you cannot function, no matter how good you are. and if you are going to criticise messi (i dont care who is better either way,but at least get your facts right) messi got 18 assists, averages 2 key passes a game, and makes 67 passes a game, only person being a "hater" is you
Messi's and argentina problem stems for the midfield, one of Cambiasso or Mascherano needs to be dropped, and Pastore
---------- Post added at 01:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ----------
the supply from argentina's midfield is poor and pretty inconsistent, should be Pastore and Banega, Cambiasso behind
---------- Post added at 01:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 PM ----------
as the stats show, that statement is just wrong
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Yes, I agree that supply is poor, but from the best player in the world I expect more. One average game and one bad game doesn't seem right to me. Maybe he's not working hard enough ( he is, but Guarrin destroyed Messi last night) or Messi depends on Xavi and Iniesta too much ?
Its not just Messi depends on Xavi and co. Problem is Argentina do have players who are capable of linking attack and defense but for some reasons manager is not choosing the right players to do it. They just sit and wait for Messi to do something out of this world. He just cannot drop deep and at the same time create havoc at the defense. I would say its just a tactical fail from manager thats making the team to underperform. Pastore is the key here, with him Messi can play the role he plays for barca..
it doesnt matter how good you are, no supply will leave you struggling, any forward depends on his midfield
---------- Post added at 01:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 PM ----------
I fail to see why he wont pick Pastore
like what run all the back inside his half and dribble all the way to goal? Not entirely sure what you want from him
---------- Post added at 01:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------
this piece sums it up well Copa America 2011: Little change for Argentina or Colombia | Holding Midfield