4-2-3-1 PAV GENGENPRESS (Championship and EFL Cup Double with Record points)

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Thank you!

I just registered to this forum ² thank you ThePav, really a marvellous tactic!

Started the Beta with Galatasaray. I also used to play with 4-2-3-1 before, it was effective
but not that effective as your tactic. Finished the 1st season without loss, only 1 draw..

****, it made Podolski a merciless beast!

Thanks again!
 
Had to login to say THANK YOU for this tactic - it's amazing! My West Ham side just beat Chelsea 11-1! If only it was the same in real life..
 
Welcome to FM17. Thought I would start a game on the beta with Wolves the team I support. And thought I would share my 4231. The philosophy is possession based as well as utilising Jurgen Klopp's Gengenpress. As history has shown, most coaches have utilized high-pressure defending as a means to an end: regaining possession. This follows the standard dogma that more possession logically leads to more opportunities and thus, more goals. Klopp, however, saw the beauty in eliminating the middleman and instead opted to use counter-pressing as an actual part of the attack.Klopp commonly opts for a narrow 4-2-3-1 with width provided by marauding fullbacks. When defending, a high back line effectively crowds the midfield, allows for players to hunt in packs, and makes passing through the center an unsavory proposition for opponents. This is all done in an effort to win back the ball as high up the pitch as possible.

Gegenpressing means to pressure the opposition immediately after losing possession. So your team have attacked and lost the ball. The opposition now have possession of the ball and instead of leaving the ball and dropping off to become organised and compact behind the ball, energetic pressure is immediately applied around the ball as an organised and co - cohesive unit. The first priority of Gegenpressing is to try and win the ball back as quickly as possible and then counter the counter attack. The second priority is to force the opposition to make a hurried inaccurate or panicked pass, which your team can gain possession from or intercept or win and then counter attack.

You with me? Good let's see how this gets implemented.

The Tactic

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The Gengenpress (Opposition Instructions)

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Specific player instructions are also set on the players themselves. Coupled with these oppo instructions will enable the Gengenpress. Do not leave this to the assistant. You need to set the oppo instructions yourself. (It's a tab on the tactic screen) When you go into match ignore the assistants advice as your instructions seen above will already be set. You only need to do this once when you join the club and then they will always be on no matter what tactic you are playing.

Training/Match Prep

I leave to assistant

If you need a goal change mentality to Control and use "demand more/push forward" as touchline shouts.

Progress

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As you can see I won the championship as well winning the EFL cup final with Wolves. Not only are we defensively sound with the least conceded, but as we dominate the possession we also score goals for fun. Not only that. We have the ball more than anyone else, we cross more than anyone else, we head more than anyone else, we dribble more than anyone else, with the gengenpress combined with all of this you can see that it gets results. As if you work harder than other teams, 9/10 you will get the outcome that you want. It's not the will to win, but the will to prepare to win, Hard work beats talent when talent does not work hard. Hopefully that is what we are trying to achieve with this tactic.

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Results

Three matches from the cup run cup beating Liverpool and Chelsea with Wolves. But also demolishing Spurs in the final!

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PLAN B

Every good tactician needs a plan b. And in certain games if I feel i need an extra man in midfield or want to sure things up, I've set up this formation. Team Instructions are the same as the original, This is just about shape and holding on to leads while hitting them onto counter. However it's a fantastic alternative to the 4231 and if you feel your back is against the wall, or maybe away from home. This is a real alternative. If people want to play around and start games with it maybe on standard/control, I think it would work so let me know in the comments if you have any luck as it needs to be tested. It however seems to work very well on counter and is a good way to sure up games and hit teams on the break while protecting a lead.

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If you go down to 10 men I would suggest this shape and roles, Example after being 2 down at Man Utd and down to 10 this is what i went too and hit back with 2 goals and its worked multiple times before on this FM and other versions before.

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Download Links

4-2-3-1 PAV - Main Tactic

4-3-3 PAV - 433 Counter



Going to try this with my Leeds side in the second year - just an FYI how do you get background pics in the BETA? Mine won't load...
 
Will try it out :). I there a chance that it will work if i use IF instead off the winger role?
 
just been sacked after 13 games with everton. havent a clue why it wasnt working. dominating games, dont know if theres bugs effecting the save or not i just dont see how it wasnt working
 
otorway welcome to

just been sacked after 13 games with everton. havent a clue why it wasnt working. dominating games, dont know if theres bugs effecting the save or not i just dont see how it wasnt working
I been sacked after 20 games in Valencia :(
 
Changed to Defensive and Structured and took closing down more off the back 4, seems more stable.
 
can you post your starting 11 please

Yeah, of course! I'm at work right now but I'll post a screenshot of my team tonight. I haven't made many transfers; I bought in Victor Cuesta to bolster the defence (though Winston Reid's been fantastic), Ryan Sessegnon (who plays fantastic as a WB-L) and Walace (from Gremio?) to play in either midfield slots.

I'll post a screenshot tonight.
 
This tactic is great! Works well with Valencia, just lost 1 so far, won against real madrid and went draw against barca and atl. madrid! Great work pal
 
Made a few tweaks, got a defensive attacking and standard tactic and should be able to alternate in games or home/away etc, will post this eve when I get time
 
I just can`t load it. I tried to load any tactic from FM16 and it was successful. But that is not case with those two tactics. Anybody knows how to make it possible? Tnx in advance.
 
Made a few tweaks, got a defensive attacking and standard tactic and should be able to alternate in games or home/away etc, will post this eve when I get time

Really looking forward to when these get posted buddy
 
Quality tactic, very surprised with my lack of bookings considering the instructions. Thanks for posting.
 
OP Updated finished 3rd with Wolves second season, Not had the same time to play as been back at work this week, If anybody has any screenshots they want to share that be awesome, Especially the West Ham 11-1 vs Chelsea! Not the stadium Violence last night but the result in FM ;)!
 
Ive been trying your tactic out with West Ham and its working fairly well. Though I do get worried about counter attacks. This often starts from the AMC (Enganche) being isolated and giving the ball away.

Im using Payet in that role who has the stats for the role other than only 12 anticipation. Its also hard to get a good performance from him in that position which maybe due to low anticipation. He also has the lowest avg rating of the entire team at 6.9. you are using Lundemo (also low anticipation) who also seems to be the least performing player of your team.

Payets stats with just a small sample size and maybe just need to give him more time. Europa had some qualifiers against weaker sides so stats maybe inflated.

Europa 5 app, 2 gls, 2 asts, 20% shot tar, 82 pas %, 7.22 avg
Prem 6app, 0 gls, 3 asts, 46% shot tar, 69 pas %, 6.75 avg



Anyone have any idea of a better role for the AMC? I was thinking of trying Payet at as a Trequartista. Will also try Shadow Striker as well as Attacking Mid and Adv Playmaker in both support and attack duties.

Also anyone using players that gets good rating in the Enganche position?
 
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I just changed the Enganche to AP att and it seemed to improve performance for the role but I wouldnt say I saw a massive performance increase from the team. Kinda stayed the same to be fair.
 
Ive been trying your tactic out with West Ham and its working fairly well. Though I do get worried about counter attacks. This often starts from the AMC (Enganche) being isolated and giving the ball away.

Im using Payet in that role who has the stats for the role other than only 12 anticipation. Its also hard to get a good performance from him in that position which maybe due to low anticipation. He also has the lowest avg rating of the entire team at 6.9. you are using Lundemo (also low anticipation) who also seems to be the least performing player of your team.

Payets stats with just a small sample size and maybe just need to give him more time. Europa had some qualifiers against weaker sides so stats maybe inflated.

Europa 5 app, 2 gls, 2 asts, 20% shot tar, 82 pas %, 7.22 avg
Prem 6app, 0 gls, 3 asts, 46% shot tar, 69 pas %, 6.75 avg



Anyone have any idea of a better role for the AMC? I was thinking of trying Payet at as a Trequartista. Will also try Shadow Striker as well as Attacking Mid and Adv Playmaker in both support and attack duties.

Also anyone using players that gets good rating in the Enganche position?

The idea with the Engache is that he stays central and arrive late kind of a lampard role, Bradley Dack scored 15 plus goals for me in the prem, I just got Payet in as back up and he scored on debut, if you look at the OP your see the attacking tactic has an SS, so I would recommend that as SS again scores goals and get in the box a bit more why i put it on the attacking one, And also using the 3 tactics in different game situations is really useful, But it's your save so do whatever tweaks you like, and let us know with how you get on :)
 
Man United

Anyone tryed these tactics with Man united? Any tips?
 
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