4132 - Strikerless Mayhem with a Solid Defence

Jimmy_x_ said:
The changes you have made seem to have made a massive difference to the amount of cccs being created judging by your screenshots. I guess my balancing the tactic more the team is creating chances more diligently, looking forward to to further updates and trying this when i get time over the weekend
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i agree we are creating quite a lot more chances, will continue to update as i keep going and hope to hear from you when you get some time to test it too :)
 
i've been trying a few experiments with match preparation and changing to teamwork appears to have given our performances a real boost. attacking movement and defensive positioning seem to be unbalanced - especialy defensive positioning, don't really recommend it personally.

with attacking movement you can always outscore an opponent, but with defensive positioning, if something goes wrong it seems to be harder to make a comeback as we create less chances.

teamwork gives us defensive cohesion but also good movement off the ball with objective passing, or so it seems :p

currently 3rd with palace, won the efl cup and in the final of the fa cup. will post results tomorrow
 
the last version is impressive, enjoying the high tempo
 
Trying out the latest version.. will let you know what I find. Thanks for your input Veez!
 
For some reason the second season things are not so great. There are a few teams that seem to have the antidote for the tactic, including Sunderland. They have more possession, more chances and usually at least draw with me in games against them, although I have much better players. While the first season using this tactic was great, including a high ratio of goals, the second season needs some tweaks.

I am not doing things differently, yet my strike force have around 40 goals less than the previous season, although I got Dybala for example, and an absolutely improved team. And I would expect my second line of players being City to win matches against medium and small teams in the EPL, but I got a **** of a lot of draws in the second season, and some losses.

Sunderland and Liverpool definitely have the antidote for the tactic in my save in the second season, although I got 2 of the best players from Liverpool.

I changed the tactic with another one from mr. L test thread, and I got instant results, including a win against Liverpool, although the CCs are still too little given the team I have. For now I will keep both, and wait for further tests from mr. L. I kind of miss how the Sicilian Defense V5 worked in FM 16.
 
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StefanCP said:
For some reason the second season things are not so great. There are a few teams that seem to have the antidote for the tactic, including Sunderland. They have more possession, more chances and usually at least draw with me in games against them, although I have much better players. While the first season using this tactic was great, including a high ratio of goals, the second season needs some tweaks.

I am not doing things differently, yet my strike force have around 40 goals less than the previous season, although I got Dybala for example, and an absolutely improved team. And I would expect my second line of players being City to win matches against medium and small teams in the EPL, but I got a **** of a lot of draws in the second season, and some losses.

Sunderland and Liverpool definitely have the antidote for the tactic in my save in the second season, although I got 2 of the best players from Liverpool.

I changed the tactic with another one from mr. L test thread, and I got instant results, including a win against Liverpool, although the CCs are still too little given the team I have. For now I will keep both, and wait for further tests from mr. L. I kind of miss how the Sicilian Defense V5 worked in FM 16.
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i'm sorry to hear that. i've actually not played a second season with any of the teams i have tested with, so that might be an issue. although i have had positive feedback from one or two people saying that their second season was better than their first. but this could have been due to the changes made to the tactic.

you said the opposition create more chances and have more posession, especially playing sunderland and liverpool. do they use a similar tactic or style of play? have you tried changing the team mentality? using counter seems to work really well and sometimes increases posession.

how do you find you concede most your goals? and also which version are you using?

i find the latest v666 to be the most balanced overall and using "teamwork" as match prep also helps

anyone else struggling in their second season?
 
Mate, I wrote a long reply but the submit button gave an error and I lost all the message. Bottom line, I will wait for further tests from Mr. L test thread, his tests are very accurate as I found out the last season.
 
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with 2 games to go and sitting in 3rd, 5 points ahead of arsenal but having to play at the emirates and then finish the season at home against united, i was a little nervous lol especially after we were undeservedly 2-0 down against arsenal at half-time, but we came back with an epic result :D marcus edwards off the bench was a game changer
 
StefanCP said:
Mate, I wrote a long reply but the submit button gave an error and I lost all the message. Bottom line, I will wait for further tests from Mr. L test thread, his tests are very accurate as I found out the last season.
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no worries dude, i'll keep on trying to improve it until Mr.L puts it to the test :p
 
finished my test with crystal palace and i'm really happy with the results

we finished 3rd in the league by a margin, topscorers with 84 goals and conceeding 43

we also managed to win both cups

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we scored for fun and i think we could have scored even more and challenged for the top 2 spots if we had wingers with better finishing - zaha and townsend did very well but squandered so many chances.

it is especially noticeable when you see the team overall goal tally, as this tactic ususally gets 20 goals out of your wingers and they managed around half (makes sense considering they have 9 and 11 finishing attributes lol)

you can also see that benteke managed only 4 assists despite scoring a lot, so it is obvious that the SS need vision and passing attributes

off the ball is important for all forward players so they can find space in behind the defence

i also found it essencial to have fast defenders, scott dann was permeable

if you can find an all round CM with skill and some tackling that will give you a greater dimension in midfield

on another note, i've found that team talks make you or break you this year

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used teamwork as match training and i think it also brings a better dimension to our game

posting the updated tweak although it is still in testing, definately needs some improvement regarding set-pieces.

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I just hit January in Season 2 with Bilbao. Only purchase for the first team I made was bringing Ander Herrera back. I’m holding at first place with a 3 point lead over Real Madrid.

A tip for anyone planning on using it: Make sure you have depth for your WM and midfield. For me, I changed to use two DM-S and the CWB-A to CWB-S, but I need to rotate my DM and SS a lot. I do teamwork match prep and I do ball control training for 2 months, then 1 month of fitness. IE, Ball Control (Jan) – Ball Control (Feb)– Fitness (March) – Ball Control (Apr) - Ball Control (May) – Fitness (June) etc. – I do ball control because the tactic plays like a counter tactic, so I want to have good first touch and passing for my whole squad and I work fitness in because it's a hard working tactic. I don’t seem to really have the issue of teams figuring out the formation, but I will sometimes need to switch to counter for matches against a 4231 for an away match. Otherwise I just play it in standard.

In January I have the 3rd biggest GD, behind only Barca and Real. Only 2 losses, one to Barca where I gave up a PK in extra time and one to a newly promoted side because I played my cup team to give guys a rest for an upcoming CL match. I finished first in my CL group, which was Besiktas, Man City, and a Swedish team I can’t remember. The biggest issue I seem to have is defending set pieces. That’s where the vast majority of goals I concede are from and it’s usually off dumb things like when my player tries to clear it and it goes right to another player for an open net shot. Otherwise it’s getting caught on the break and the CWB is out of position, but overall I’m very happy with the defense.

I’ll do a full update after the season.
 
Ghents said:
I just hit January in Season 2 with Bilbao. Only purchase for the first team I made was bringing Ander Herrera back. I’m holding at first place with a 3 point lead over Real Madrid.

A tip for anyone planning on using it: Make sure you have depth for your WM and midfield. For me, I changed to use two DM-S and the CWB-A to CWB-S, but I need to rotate my DM and SS a lot. I do teamwork match prep and I do ball control training for 2 months, then 1 month of fitness. IE, Ball Control (Jan) – Ball Control (Feb)– Fitness (March) – Ball Control (Apr) - Ball Control (May) – Fitness (June) etc. – I do ball control because the tactic plays like a counter tactic, so I want to have good first touch and passing for my whole squad and I work fitness in because it's a hard working tactic. I don’t seem to really have the issue of teams figuring out the formation, but I will sometimes need to switch to counter for matches against a 4231 for an away match. Otherwise I just play it in standard.

In January I have the 3rd biggest GD, behind only Barca and Real. Only 2 losses, one to Barca where I gave up a PK in extra time and one to a newly promoted side because I played my cup team to give guys a rest for an upcoming CL match. I finished first in my CL group, which was Besiktas, Man City, and a Swedish team I can’t remember. The biggest issue I seem to have is defending set pieces. That’s where the vast majority of goals I concede are from and it’s usually off dumb things like when my player tries to clear it and it goes right to another player for an open net shot. Otherwise it’s getting caught on the break and the CWB is out of position, but overall I’m very happy with the defense.

I’ll do a full update after the season.
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some great feedback there dude, really appreciate it :)

defensive set-pieces definately need improving. are you using the latest version? with the CWB's on support they rarely get caught out of position
 
I am not, I just ended up arriving to that point on my own. It was good defensively but I kept getting caught on the break, so I ended up swapping them to CWB-S.
 
Been using this for a good season and a bit now, after trying many others this seems to get some consistency. I started unemployed no badges etc, when good old stirling come along and give my sorry *** a job. Currently top on league 1 in scotland in feb so i can vouch for a few iterations of this so far. One question If you have time Veez any chance of some basic ppm's to train for this particular tactic? Either way keep up good work, youve made this years playable for me was holding out for the wibe coming bk til I found this one.
 
cheers mate, im glad its working for you :)

in regards to PPM's, the most important one would be place shots. in my palace season we scored 80 goals from placed shots out of 134 i think. appart from that one i havent really played around with any others. try killer balls often for players with high passing attributes will probably also be benefitial, as would gets into opposition area

started a long term save with norwich though where im building a young squad and im definately going to experiment with some PPM's and individual training

i'll update as i go along
 
veez said:
cheers mate, im glad its working for you :)

in regards to PPM's, the most important one would be place shots. in my palace season we scored 80 goals from placed shots out of 134 i think. appart from that one i havent really played around with any others. try killer balls often for players with high passing attributes will probably also be benefitial, as would gets into opposition area

started a long term save with norwich though where im building a young squad and im definately going to experiment with some PPM's and individual training

i'll update as i go along
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Regardless of tactics, personally I tend to have more success with 'Shoots with power' as a finishing move - often makes keepers look stupid XD

'Plays one-two' is also useful, and should go well with shadow strikers.

Go wingerless strikerless ;)
 
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