[Barcelona][Tested With Athletic Bilbao] La Masia Philosophy

[8GoUrCuFf8]

I noticed that the team made more passes with a fast tempo! In true life, Barça plays a game very fast ...

 

[8GoUrCuFf8]

I think that's the idea, wheter you play as a small team or a big team.

for the moment i play every game in fast tempo and the results are good! Against the big teams or small ...

do You think its better if i play slowly when i am favorites ?

 

[arikubis]

for the moment i play every game in fast tempo and the results are good! Against the big teams or small ...

do You think if i play slowly when i am favorites, it will work better ?

well yes i think that's because you used small team, and its likely that your opponents will try to close you down very high up the pitch, so thats why quick tempo works in that situation.

the point is not what team are you using, but how your opponents play, how can you outplay them. I've also used quick tempo when i used barca, that's because the opponents press me like crazy. I've post some usefull explanation about tempo and time wasting on page 13 post #129, might be usefull for you

So here's my summary
1). If your opponents closing down very high up the pitch it's better to play quick tempo
2). If you opponents defend very deep it's better to play slow tempo

Forgive me if i'm wrong (A)

But if you like your team to play quick tempo, and the results is good so there's nothing wrong about it then, there is nothing wrong with trying your own idea eventhough it is different to others

 

[8GoUrCuFf8]

Yet teams defend very deep against Barcelona(except Real who defend very high)! And you tell me that you used quick tempo....I don't understand why...

how you now if the opponent closing down very high the pitch ??

Another thing: I put the minimum pitch size to prevent against attack in the back of the defense! Maximum pitch size is better ?

 

[arikubis]

Yet teams defend very deep against Barcelona(except Real who defend very high)! And you tell me that you used quick tempo....I don't understand why...

how you now if the opponent closing down very high the pitch ??

Another thing: I put the minimum pitch size to prevent against attack in the back of the defense! Maximum pitch size is better ?

yes almost every team defend very deep against Barcelona, except Real Madrid. and yes the point is if the team defend very deep its better to play slow tempo, to find spaces. How to find spaces? Yes to play slow tempo, so because of that your players will be more cautious with their passing, slowly moving the ball around, drag opposition defender to come out of their position, in hope spaces will be create

I know it because i watched the match in extended view, so it gave me more explanation what happened in the match

I put maximum pitch to maximum is because if i put it to minimum the pitch will be too crowded, and hard to find spaces

 

[8GoUrCuFf8]

I put maximum pitch to maximum is because if i put it to minimum the pitch will be too crowded, and hard to find spaces

Ok, the next season i try with a maximum pitch size!

Also, I'd like to get to 1000 passes in a game (as a member who has put the screens)! But it looks complicated to make! I come up with 550 assists with Sociedad! and you with Barca?

 

[twelvepointcourier]

Hey everyone,

I run one of the blogs shown in the first post (twelvepointsports.blogspot.com) and I just had to drop in here and say how cool I think this thread is. I definitely geeked out a little bit seeing a few things I've written help out with FM's tactics, and, well, this thread is one of the coolest things I've ever seen on the internet. So thanks for that.

Cheers.

 

[arikubis]

Ok, the next season i try with a maximum pitch size!

Also, I'd like to get to 1000 passes in a game (as a member who has put the screens)! But it looks complicated to make! I come up with 550 assists with Sociedad! and you with Barca?

well if you can get 1000 passes in a game thats awesome, my personal record is with Atlethic Bilbao around 800 something. But to be honest thats is not my objective. My objective is to win by beauty, by controlling the flow of the game which mean i have to have one "general" in my midfield who can spread the ball to create spaces for others, so not surprised if he release more than 80 passes in a match. If he released more than 110 passes a game, the opponents must be defend very deep or their defense is too wide open.

Hey everyone,

I run one of the blogs shown in the first post (twelvepointsports.blogspot.com) and I just had to drop in here and say how cool I think this thread is. I definitely geeked out a little bit seeing a few things I've written help out with FM's tactics, and, well, this thread is one of the coolest things I've ever seen on the internet. So thanks for that.

Cheers.

Well thx mate for your comments, i've read your analysis and i think its very cool. i read your analysis through totalBarca.com. and i have to say, i'm really sorry i've taken one of your analysis without asking permission first (A)
Do you play FM also?

 

[twelvepointcourier]

Well thx mate for your comments, i've read your analysis and i think its very cool. i read your analysis through totalBarca.com. and i have to say, i'm really sorry i've taken one of your analysis without asking permission first (A)

Haha, don't worry about it: the internet should be free and open! Beyond that, you attributed what you posted here of mine to me and actually linked to it. No need to say sorry at all, it is I who should be thanking you.

And, really, this thread is so cool.

Do you play FM also?

I, sadly, just don't have the time to right now. Hoping to get back into the series next season.

 

[muhammadrizka]

well if you can get 1000 passes in a game thats awesome, my personal record is with Atlethic Bilbao around 800 something. But to be honest thats is not my objective. My objective is to win by beauty, by controlling the flow of the game which mean i have to have one "general" in my midfield who can spread the ball to create spaces for others, so not surprised if he release more than 80 passes in a match. If he released more than 110 passes a game, the opponents must be defend very deep or their defense is too wide open.

Interesting point, 100% agree with u mate. The team who controling possession in a match is a team with a big chance of winning the match. But certainly it would be useless, since they only passing around without creating opportunities.
Doesn't matter your passer didn't 100+ pass. That easy to make a lot passes, the difficult is who to find some balance of produce a lot passing and create chances as well.

Arikubis, I see you doing this is fantastic. Much improved with the OP, that class.

 

[as2ucop]

its ok arikubis. seem like ur are indonesian. cheers from malaysia for this wonderful tactic. gonna try it with my Birmingham

 

[8GoUrCuFf8]

Do you think it's good to ask the players to keep the ball? Against a team that defend high ?

 

[arikubis]

Do you think it's good to ask the players to keep the ball? Against a team that defend high ?

Honestly i have to say no, because it is very dangerous to keep the ball in your own area while the opposition players heavily pressed you. guardiola once said, "We play in the other team's half as much as possible because I get worried when the ball is in my half"

I quoted that from this article performance.fourfourtwo.com there is also an interesting video explaining how to counter team that defend high. I've also shared some videos in one of my previous post in this thread, that show how barca counter real madrid pressing.

The reason why i say no is because if you keep the ball while your opponents press you is because its far to dangerous, your opposition players is to close to your goal which mean they have bigger chance to score. and although if you can keep the ball, which is very hard unless you are using barca or your players have the same ability to keep the ball as barca players it will be useless i think.

I think it is better to quickly bring the ball forward to opposition area but still using pass & move, as shown also in my previous post where pedro score goal against madrid in champion league semifinal, because if your players just wildly clear the ball it will be an advantage to the opps especially if they have better physical aspects.

What i usually do is widen the game (widen the width) and to play with quick tempo while still maintaning good value of time wasting, because otherwise your players will wildly just kick the ball high to opps area which is i really avoid. by doing this there will be more spaces in the midfield area

but if you really want to keep the ball while your opponents press high, you can make your opponents retreat to their own area by quickly moving the ball to their area which mean you have to play quick tempo and also maintaining often time wasting so when you have reached you opps area you will eventually slow down the tempo and also keeping the ball again. But my question is why would you that? when there is a wide open goal in front of you?

sorry buddy if my explanation is way too long, just a thought (A)

 

[arikubis]

Interesting point, 100% agree with u mate. The team who controling possession in a match is a team with a big chance of winning the match. But certainly it would be useless, since they only passing around without creating opportunities.
Doesn't matter your passer didn't 100+ pass. That easy to make a lot passes, the difficult is who to find some balance of produce a lot passing and create chances as well.

Arikubis, I see you doing this is fantastic. Much improved with the OP, that class.

well thx mate, really appreciated it . will continue work to strive for better tactic with this kind of philosophy, and also will always looking forward to learn from others especially you mastah cheers

its ok arikubis. seem like ur are indonesian. cheers from malaysia for this wonderful tactic. gonna try it with my Birmingham

yes mate i am. okay looking forward for your positive comment, if its negative dont hesitate to pm me, try not to share it here LOL haha just kidding mate 8-| of course i will accept any kind of comments here

 

[8GoUrCuFf8]

Your explanation is so good ! Thanks buddy

Just one more question :
Guardiola said : "We're a horrible team without the ball so I want us to get it back as soon as possible and I'd rather give away fouls and the ball in their half than ours"
This suggests the need for tackling soft defensive players and tackles hard for offensive players, right? to avoid making mistakes in our half and win the ball rather high, right ?

 

[arikubis]

Your explanation is so good ! Thanks buddy

Just one more question :
Guardiola said : "We're a horrible team without the ball so I want us to get it back as soon as possible and I'd rather give away fouls and the ball in their half than ours"
This suggests the need for tackling soft defensive players and tackles hard for offensive players, right? to avoid making mistakes in our half and win the ball rather high, right ?

yes more likely like that

 

[arikubis]

One of the key components in this game Is PPM (Player Preferred Moves). more in-depth explanation about PPM can be found in this thread Player Preferred Moves Guide: A Definitive Look

In FM 2012, SI make it a lot more for us, to ask our players to learn certain PPM compared to the previous game, where players can simply refuse to learn the PPM and directly damage our relationship and players morale if we force them to.

Because i used classic mode there is no specific roles for each position, and i also had hugely modify the player instruction for each position so it slightly different to what others might recommended. To make it easier for us, i will name these positions as a role on behalf of the players who fills these position
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=arial, sans-serif]Useful PPM for each roles[/FONT][FONT=arial, sans-serif]
Valdes Role (GK):
None

Pique Role (DCr):
1. Marks Opponents Tightly
2. Does Not Dive Into Tackles
Not very usefull PPM but will be usefull if you have the right players to do it;
1. Gets Forward Whenever Possible
2. Tries Long Range Passes

Puyol Role (DCl):
1. Play Short Simple Passes
2. Mark Opponents Tightly
3. Does Not Dive Into Tackles
Other Useful PPM for this role:
1. Stays Back at all times (If your other Central Defenders have [/FONT]Gets Forward Whenever Possible this PPM will be very useful)
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]
Alves Role (WBr):
1. Run With Ball Down Right
2. Gets Forward Whenever Possible
3. Likes to Switch Ball to Other Flank

Abidal Role (FBl)
1. Runs With Ball Down Left
2. Plays One Twos

Busquets Role (DMl):
1. Play Short Simple Passes

Xavi Role (MCr):
1. Play Short Simple Passes
2. Comes Deep to Get the Ball
3. Plays One-twos
Very Useful PPM but need players with good attributes in Passing, Decision Making, Creativity:
1. Dictates Tempo
2. Tries Killers Ball Often

[/FONT]Iniesta Role (AMCl):
1. Play Short Simple Passes
2. Plays One-twos
Very Useful PPM but need players with good attributes in Passing, Decision Making, Creativity:
1. Dictates Tempo
2. Tries Killers Ball Often
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]
Messi Role (AMCr):
1. Gets Into Opposition Area
2. Comes Deep To Get The Ball
3. Plays One-Two
Very useful[/FONT] PPM but need players with good attributes in Passing, Decision Making, Creativity, and Dribbling:[FONT=arial, sans-serif]
1. Tries Killers Ball Often
2. Runs with Ball Often

Villa Role (STl):
1. Likes to Try to Beat Offside Trap

Pedro Role (AMr):
1. Gets Into Opposition Area

cheers [/FONT]

 

[as2ucop]

can u suggest some player that will be great to play in the " messi role " ?

 

[bozzaj23]

I seem to find with this tactic that the players are shooting from distance a lot. first half of my latest game 10 shots and 7 of which are long shots. 70% of the possession but not making any clear cut chances.
is this too do with the team not knowing the tactic well enough? as its early in the season..
and also the left back and attacking right players get the ball in the final third near the corner flag and become still and don't do anything with the ball waiting till someone tackles them, which is useless..
maybe its just me not doing something

 

[arikubis]

can u suggest some player that will be great to play in the " messi role " ?

Hulk, Neymar, Erik Lamela, James Rodriguez, Eden Hazard, Giuliano, Douglas Costa, Lewis Holtby, Giusepper Rossi, Jonathan Viera, Willian, Alex Teixera

I seem to find with this tactic that the players are shooting from distance a lot. first half of my latest game 10 shots and 7 of which are long shots. 70% of the possession but not making any clear cut chances.
is this too do with the team not knowing the tactic well enough? as its early in the season..
and also the left back and attacking right players get the ball in the final third near the corner flag and become still and don't do anything with the ball waiting till someone tackles them, which is useless..
maybe its just me not doing something

what team are you using anyway? yes honestly this tactic need time for players to know the tactic well. how many matches have you played? yes about the wide players that standing still near the corner flag is also what i concerned, currently working to improve that. But about players keep taking long shots its a rare occurrence

try this. widen your width up to 2 clicks, slow down your tempo and also you time wasting about 1 click. also check your player PPM maybe they have Shots From Distance PPM. But i believe that is because your opposition sits very deep and your players desperate to find a goal because they couldnt find any spaces.