Barcelona V Real Madrid: 7.45 ITV 1

[Mike.]

But that was 3 years ago Mike?? I think we can all agree than Messi has improved just a tad since 2008.

Three years ago is irrelevant to be fair, real did the same in the copa del rey,and the league game before when down to 10men, marked the space as opposed to messi and shut him down. The idea still works, Carrick isnt good man t man, but he is very good at intercepting the space and that will be key. Park will deploy left with Evra behind to pin back alves, and im not even sure nani will start. unlike madrid and arsenal, we defend from the front which makes it much harder for barca to develop attacks

 

[matyfatymole]

Actually one of the bests ways to stop messi is to deny him the space to run into, some that carrick and fletcher do really well. people for get that when we played barca and won, our best tracking mid was playing at rightback. very tough, but doable

I do agree with the bit about denying him space but I'm not sure Carrick and fletcher are the best people for that job.

 

[Sid]

I'm genuinely angry that this is my longest thread.

 

[Mike.]

I do agree with the bit about denying him space but I'm not sure Carrick and fletcher are the best people for that job.

Carrick is excellent at interceptions, its man to man where he struggles, and fletcher is nearly as good there. The question is whether barca will pressure carrick though, thats where he can be caught out

Having said all that we need to get through first, still 90 minutes to go

 

[matyfatymole]

Carrick is excellent at interceptions, its man to man where he struggles, and fletcher is nearly as good there. The question is whether barca will pressure carrick though, thats where he can be caught out

Having said all that we need to get through first, still 90 minutes to go

Yeah but if Messi gets hold of the ball I could see Carrick lunging in allowing Messi space to place a pass to Villa or whoever and to eventually to score. I am a big fan of Carrick but Wilshere or someone who is more adapted in taking someone off the ball would do better against the talent of Messi

 

[CJACKO11]

Three years ago is irrelevant to be fair, real did the same in the copa del rey,and the league game before when down to 10men, marked the space as opposed to messi and shut him down. The idea still works, Carrick isnt good man t man, but he is very good at intercepting the space and that will be key. Park will deploy left with Evra behind to pin back alves, and im not even sure nani will start. unlike madrid and arsenal, we defend from the front which makes it much harder for barca to develop attacks

The only man for me that could stop Messi at Utd for pace/strengh/ability funnily enough is Rooney but no way has he got the discipline to do that role and Fergie wouldnt because you would lose so much upfront. I dont believe you have to stop the space because Messi had alot of touches in the Copa Del Rey and again tonight but what Pepe did is just out muscle him and for Utd havent got that lively player in the midfield. Anderson could do it but as we all know in his head he is an attacking player not defensive.

 

[Mike.]

Yeah but if Messi gets hold of the ball I could see Carrick lunging in allowing Messi space to place a pass to Villa or whoever and to eventually to score. I am a big fan of Carrick but Wilshere or someone who is more adapted in taking someone off the ball would do better against the talent of Messi

Thats exactly the thing, carrick doesnt lunge in at all, thats why he's so good at it. Wilshere is morely to be beaten because he likes to dive in

---------- Post added at 01:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 AM ----------

The only man for me that could stop Messi at Utd for pace/strengh/ability funnily enough is Rooney but no way has he got the discipline to do that role and Fergie wouldnt because you would lose so much upfront. I dont believe you have to stop the space because Messi had alot of touches in the Copa Del Rey and again tonight but what Pepe did is just out muscle him and for Utd havent got that lively player in the midfield. Anderson could do it but as we all know in his head he is an attacking player not defensive.

its not about him touching the ball, its WHERE he does it. and in those two games he couldnt touch in the most dangerous areas.
50 times in the centre circle is much better than 10 times outside the box. Stopping the space works well

 

[matyfatymole]

Thats exactly the thing, carrick doesnt lunge in at all, thats why he's so good at it. Wilshere is morely to be beaten because he likes to dive in

But whats the point in having someone that is only good at interceptions as surely Messi could out muscle Carrick and turn him. I would rather have someone who could take Messi off the ball and we saw this as Wilshere gave Messi a quiet game. I just don't think Carrick will be up for it.

 

[Sid]

Shaun Derry >>> Pepe >>> Carrick >>> Wilshere.

 

[CJACKO11]

Thats exactly the thing, carrick doesnt lunge in at all, thats why he's so good at it. Wilshere is morely to be beaten because he likes to dive in

---------- Post added at 01:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 AM ----------



its not about him touching the ball, its WHERE he does it. and in those two games he couldnt touch in the most dangerous areas.
50 times in the centre circle is much better than 10 times outside the box. Stopping the space works well

Well we'll see, if im wrong then i will congratulate the player Fergie desides to try and stop Messi and i will even send the club a email addressed to this player (hold me too it). I personly think Utd dont have a player who can stop Messi for 90+minutes.

 

[Mike.]

But whats the point in having someone that is only good at interceptions I would rather have someone who could take Messi off the ball and we saw this as Wilshere gave Messi a quiet game. I just don't think Carrick will be up for it.

Becuase the aim is stop him getting the ball in dangerous areas. If messi is on the ball in that kind of area already then you have lost half the battle. You stop the very best by cutting their supply, or letting them have the ball in neutral areas. messi was stopped becuase they pressed him into picking the ball up in the centre circle, it was only then that wilshere got into him, without the forcing back from others, wilshere wouldnt have been in that position

---------- Post added at 01:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 AM ----------

Well we'll see, if im wrong then i will congratulate the player Fergie desides to try and stop Messi and i will even send the club a email addressed to this player (hold me too it). I personly think Utd dont have a player who can stop Messi for 90+minutes.

most teams dont have a player to stop messi, so you stop his supply instead and limit his chances to hurt you

---------- Post added at 01:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 AM ----------

As for Rooney he will be sat in between Busquest and Xavi, thats how deep he defends

 

[CJACKO11]

Becuase the aim is stop him getting the ball in dangerous areas. If messi is on the ball in that kind of area already then you have lost half the battle. You stop the very best by cutting their supply, or letting them have the ball in neutral areas. messi was stopped becuase they pressed him into picking the ball up in the centre circle, it was only then that wilshere got into him, without the forcing back from others, wilshere wouldnt have been in that position

---------- Post added at 01:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 AM ----------



most teams dont have a player to stop messi, so you stop his supply instead and limit his chances to hurt you

---------- Post added at 01:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 AM ----------

As for Rooney he will be sat in between Busquest and Xavi, thats how deep he defends

Most teams get beat by Messi though. The side that currently have stopped Messi is Madrid and thats by making Pepe stick to him like glue. Every time Messi got the ball Pepe was on him and he was quiet in the Copa del rey and he as quiet until Pepe got sent off tonight.

 

[Jack]

To be honest I wouldn't give a toss if these so called 'two of the best teams in the world' never face each other in this competition for the next five years. They are supposed to play some of the best football in the world, yet they can't even walk down the tunnel without scrapping?

The ref couldn't even get a foothold on the game and that was apparent when he sent Pepe off for that. Bit harsh but maybe wasnt a red. Not impressed with the game - yet AGAIN relying on Messi to liven it up and make it seem a decent match. But these two teams are supposed to be the best? Not for me. Absolute joke how these so called footballers cant even give a decent game of football and act like gentlemen on the pitch, it was like watching a bunch of ten year olds in the park complaining about if something hit the jumper goalpost and went in or not.

Give me Fulham Bolton any day of the week.

 

[Mike.]

Most teams get beat by Messi though. The side that currently have stopped Messi is Madrid and thats by making Pepe stick to him like glue. Every time Messi got the ball Pepe was on him and he was quiet in the Copa del rey and he as quiet until Pepe got sent off tonight.

pepe wasnt man marking in the copa del rey, he marked the space, thats what he did here. he waits until messi enters his area and then moves to him. carrick picking the passes forces messi deeper,where he gets hounded by fletcher/anderson or even rooney who will be sat in the centre circle, thats the theory anyway, wheter it works is anther thing entirely

 

[Vanjagl]

you are all talking about messi, cut off xavi and iniesta, and you've won the match. Too bad we won't have Hargreaves for final, he would do the "Pepe" role just fine. Rooney and Chicharito will press the def line and we need some one from midfield to follow them, Fletch is perfect for that role. Giggs and Carrick will sit back and try to intercept the ball, with Valencia and Park covering Villa/Pedro. I would love too see Smalling in final, IMO, faster than Ferdinand and he is tacticly mature. I just don't know one thing, should Fabio or O'Shea start as RB.

 

[Sid]

To be honest I wouldn't give a toss if these so called 'two of the best teams in the world' never face each other in this competition for the next five years. They are supposed to play some of the best football in the world, yet they can't even walk down the tunnel without scrapping?

The ref couldn't even get a foothold on the game and that was apparent when he sent Pepe off for that. Bit harsh but maybe wasnt a red. Not impressed with the game - yet AGAIN relying on Messi to liven it up and make it seem a decent match. But these two teams are supposed to be the best? Not for me. Absolute joke how these so called footballers cant even give a decent game of football and act like gentlemen on the pitch, it was like watching a bunch of ten year olds in the park complaining about if something hit the jumper goalpost and went in or not.

Give me QPR any day of the week.

Now it's perfect

 

[matyfatymole]

pepe wasnt man marking in the copa del rey, he marked the space, thats what he did here. he waits until messi enters his area and then moves to him. carrick picking the passes forces messi deeper,where he gets hounded by fletcher/anderson or even rooney who will be sat in the centre circle, thats the theory anyway, wheter it works is anther thing entirely

Well it might do Carrick will need to stick to Messi like glue though!

 

[*Jones*]

I noticed something about Barcelona today, I also heard a commentator point it out a few weeks back.
When a Barcelona player has the ball, when they're passing it around, they wait until the very last second until the defender has commited himself and then they just pass it round them. Watching it, it's very clever.

 

[Mike.]

I noticed something about Barcelona today, I also heard a commentator point it out a few weeks back.
When a Barcelona player has the ball, when they're passing it around, they wait until the very last second until the defender has commited himself and then they just pass it round them. Watching it, it's very clever.

thats why you mark the space, otherwise you just open up a channel

 

[markodragojevic]

you are all talking about messi, cut off xavi and iniesta, and you've won the match. Too bad we won't have Hargreaves for final, he would do the "Pepe" role just fine. Rooney and Chicharito will press the def line and we need some one from midfield to follow them, Fletch is perfect for that role. Giggs and Carrick will sit back and try to intercept the ball, with Valencia and Park covering Villa/Pedro. I would love too see Smalling in final, IMO, faster than Ferdinand and he is tacticly mature. I just don't know one thing, should Fabio or O'Shea start as RB.

Ferdinand has more experience,that is vital and also Rafael will/should start XD