England Thread

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Tezzz said:
I've never rated Barry, think he's overrated personally. Carrick is better than him without a doubt, he does his job, albeit sit in front of the defence and make a pass every now and then. But better than Gerrard? lol
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Yes better than Gerrard, because Gerrard isnt a CM, he is an AM. as for making the odd pass, Carrick has made more passes than any other English central mid, at 73 passes per game at 90%, hitting 6 long ranges (11.3 per game in Europe) passes a game at 82% accuracy. Considerably better passer and considerably more accurate than Gerrard. Gerrard is a hands down better AM, but he is in Carricks shadow as an CM.

Carrick is a specialist regista, his role is to sit in front of the back 4 and dictate play, only Scholes does this better.
 
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Tezzz said:
I've never rated Barry, think he's overrated personally. Carrick is better than him without a doubt, he does his job, albeit sit in front of the defence and make a pass every now and then. But better than Gerrard? lol
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Mike. gave you the answer.
 
Mike. said:
Yes better than Gerrard, because Gerrard isnt a CM, he is an AM. as for making the odd pass, Carrick has made more passes than any other English central mid, at 73 passes per game at 90%, hitting 6 long ranges (11.3 per game in Europe) passes a game at 82% accuracy. Considerably better passer and considerably more accurate than Gerrard. Gerrard is a hands down better AM, but he is in Carricks shadow as an AM.

Carrick is a specialist regista, his role is to sit in front of the back 4 and dictate play, only Scholes does this better.
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You're right Mike. It used to be a sign of weakness whenever Gerrard picked up the ball off the toes of his defenders. In terms of where he's at now, not so much a sign of weakness but a sign that we may no longer have the Gerrard of old in the team. Scholes game was never based around physically dominating a defence so his transition into a player with more space compensates for his age. Gerrard, well, he's a force of nature type of player. And he's never really had that calculating playing percentage side to his game. All or nothing for him. We got the best out of him playing directly behind a striker or cutting in from the right wing where his strengths were not weaknesses. Playing him in central midfield has the completely opposite effect. It's about what players do well, isn't it? If I'm 2-1 down with 15 minutes to go and have a fit and firing Gerrard able to come on and run at a defence and play around the box, him every time. If I want to control the game, I'd take Alonso. Carrick if I were desperate ;)
 
Zebedee said:
You're right Mike. It used to be a sign of weakness whenever Gerrard picked up the ball off the toes of his defenders. In terms of where he's at now, not so much a sign of weakness but a sign that we may no longer have the Gerrard of old in the team. Scholes game was never based around physically dominating a defence so his transition into a player with more space compensates for his age. Gerrard, well, he's a force of nature type of player. And he's never really had that calculating playing percentage side to his game. All or nothing for him. We got the best out of him playing directly behind a striker or cutting in from the right wing where his strengths were not weaknesses. Playing him in central midfield has the completely opposite effect. It's about what players do well, isn't it? If I'm 2-1 down with 15 minutes to go and have a fit and firing Gerrard able to come on and run at a defence and play around the box, him every time. If I want to control the game, I'd take Alonso. Carrick if I were desperate ;)
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This is what really gets me about the England side, its not just about Roy not picking a certain individual, its the compounded effect it has throughout the side, the balance has been lost. Shoehorning him at CM means he is much less effective, and we have just lost our wrecking ball AM. It just doesnt seem like we are picking to our strengths. Belgium not too soon, will see how that goes.
 
Mike. said:
This is what really gets me about the England side, its not just about Roy not picking a certain individual, its the compounded effect it has throughout the side, the balance has been lost. Shoehorning him at CM means he is much less effective, and we have just lost our wrecking ball AM. It just doesnt seem like we are picking to our strengths. Belgium not too soon, will see how that goes.
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Think you have to look at what Hodgson is going to do this tournament. My prediction is that he'll be two deep banks four, a big lump up front and speed merchant. Possession will likely be limited. Results may well come down to a long hoof up front, a knock down and a chance. It's going to be safety conscious football. Lose by the odd goal, win by the odd goal, funny old game. Don't really need balance in a team to do that - just players who'll fulfill certain key functional roles.

In his defence, there's a strong case that this sort of football is pretty much the level England are at right now. A base to build on for future generations. Not sure I quite believe it, nor do I believe that England couldn't play another way if Hodgson chose to select the players to do it, but it does have some merit at some level.
 
Zebedee said:
Think you have to look at what Hodgson is going to do this tournament. My prediction is that he'll be two deep banks four, a big lump up front and speed merchant. Possession will likely be limited. Results may well come down to a long hoof up front, a knock down and a chance. It's going to be safety conscious football. Lose by the odd goal, win by the odd goal, funny old game. Don't really need balance in a team to do that - just players who'll fulfill certain key functional roles.

In his defence, there's a strong case that this sort of football is pretty much the level England are at right now. A base to build on for future generations. Not sure I quite believe it, nor do I believe that England couldn't play another way if Hodgson chose to select the players to do it, but it does have some merit at some level.
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England are not Spain, but they aren't cloggers. I can sort of see where he is coming from, but there is more to England than that, even a counter-attacking 4-2-3-1 would be a step up. Prefer him to Harry, but didn't expect this level of ultra caution. But guess that is what you get when your remit is the manager must be English, and those are your only two choices.
 
Zebedee said:
Think you have to look at what Hodgson is going to do this tournament. My prediction is that he'll be two deep banks four, a big lump up front and speed merchant. Possession will likely be limited. Results may well come down to a long hoof up front, a knock down and a chance. It's going to be safety conscious football. Lose by the odd goal, win by the odd goal, funny old game. Don't really need balance in a team to do that - just players who'll fulfill certain key functional roles.

In his defence, there's a strong case that this sort of football is pretty much the level England are at right now. A base to build on for future generations. Not sure I quite believe it, nor do I believe that England couldn't play another way if Hodgson chose to select the players to do it, but it does have some merit at some level.
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If he does set up this way we're probably more likely to get a result against France than against Ukraine or Sweden. I agree with Mike though when he says we are capable of playing slightly more expansive football. We can't compete with the likes of Spain/ Holland etc- but if the right players had been/ are picked we at least have the quality in midfield to try and control the game a little bit more.
 
Think you'll see a more expansive variant of that formula against teams who Hodgson reckons we are better than man for man. He's pragmatic, not a totally joyless long ball merchant. :)

Then again, he could surprise us with 3-4-2-1 and play two out and out wide men. ;)
 
I'm hoping he plays Gerrard at attacking mid. We had our best results in europe 4-4-1-1 with two solid banks of four then Gera in behind Zamora. Hoping it will similar to that with Gerrard in behind Carroll, Welbeck? honestly don't know who will lead the line. Pace of Walcott and Young on the flanks could be pretty devastating if it works properly.
 
Watch the Liverpool players be key players for England at the Eurocup.
 
[video=youtube;a2gLfRHQtOM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2gLfRHQtOM[/video]


Oh my. What a goal. Rooney wont be missed I guess.
 
BlueHeart26 said:
[video=youtube;a2gLfRHQtOM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2gLfRHQtOM[/video]


Oh my. What a goal. Rooney wont be missed I guess.
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Yep, we'll be deadly if we play a team that doesn't use defenders! Nah seriously though, good goal, hope he gets a lot of game time he's an exciting prospect and one of the few aspects of our tournament that I'm looking forward to.
 
BlueHeart26 said:
[video=youtube;a2gLfRHQtOM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2gLfRHQtOM[/video]


Oh my. What a goal. Rooney wont be missed I guess.
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While the goal is impressive, a lot can be done on a training ground that won't be emulated in real life.

For example, the video of Chamberlain scoring 3 screamers in a row during practice. He won't do it in a competitive match, but I suppose it's reassuring to see that he's capable.
 
Well I have faith in Hodgson to do a good job for England and perhaps everyone can get behind the team and see how we do. Even if we do not have a good Euro's I think Hodgson can not be blamed, he has had barely any time to put his stamp on the team and the squad he selected is probably not through extensive research given the time he has had since leaving West Brom. I would guess he has took a lot of advice from Stuart Pearce for that squad.
 
Redrup said:
While the goal is impressive, a lot can be done on a training ground that won't be emulated in real life.

For example, the video of Chamberlain scoring 3 screamers in a row during practice. He won't do it in a competitive match, but I suppose it's reassuring to see that he's capable.
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Yes. England will have a bright future I think. So much talent. Welbeck, Cleverley, Oxlade, McEachran, Rodwell, Wilshere, Walker, Smalling, Steele, Rose, Barkley, Phil Jones..
 
mccollio09 said:
Yep, we'll be deadly if we play a team that doesn't use defenders! Nah seriously though, good goal, hope he gets a lot of game time he's an exciting prospect and one of the few aspects of our tournament that I'm looking forward to.
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Indeed. Welbeck should be Rooney's replacement for those 2 games.
 
StuW said:
Seems to have stalled. Two years ago, I would have included him.

Sammy Ameobi?
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Sure. Nathaniel Clyne as well.

I think Rose still can be a good player for England. He is still young.
 
StuW said:
Seems to have stalled. Two years ago, I would have included him.

Sammy Ameobi?
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Reminds me of Federico Macheda, living off past glories in some way with that wonder strike against Arsenal on his debut. Hampering his potential.

Ameobi? I don't know, I'd like to see more regular first-team football from him to make a formal judgement.
 
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