England Thread

[lxl Ra lxl]

Because I've always had a soft spot for the Netherlands and the Ajax way in particular, out of pure curiosity what's the major problems going on over there?

Imo it is that they are in an identity crisis. They noticed that we are miles behind in international football and there is no clear vision how to restore it. We have a major problem that the Eredivisie is like a u23 league for the top 3 (Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord) and that our top top talents are being transferred to the big clubs like the PL before they are 17.

This means that the dutch clubs have to compete with these insane contracts and promises these youngsters get, so the players will get anything they want and will never have to think for themselves and grow an attitude nor gain tactical insight.

From the moment they believe it isn't going as well as they like it they can just shout at their agent and some european mid-table club will give the guy a nice contract.

But from the KNVB / Dutch FA point of view there are many structural flaws from youth set-up to the executives.

In the youth set-up they still get a good technique and are focusing now more on phyisique which is good, but they forgot a few simple aspects like making the field smaller in the youth and playing with less people so you get more ball touches. There is also a lot of tactical rigidity (?). You only see 4-3-3 in the Netherlands and they just don't know how to react on other formations. Just look at Belgium at the Euro 2016. They did not know how to disarm the 5-men defenses. And imo there should be atleast a weekly training with the best talents of their youth category at a central location organised by the KNVB imo preferably at Papendal where most top athletes are training with the NT to get the top sport mentality and to bond as a team.

And then there's a huge problem with the staff since LVG left after the world cup. With the ultra defensive set-up NL always started they got far into the tournament (semi-finals), above expectations, which resulted into a discussion which style should be played. If we can still play 4-3-3 or if have to play more defensive / countre football.

Which follows to the next problem. They appointed Guus Hiddink as manager and he had no clear vision AND they promised Danny Blind to be the next manager after Euro 2016. While at that moment Ronald Koeman was available for the job. So... Guus Hiddink and Blind were indecisive with which route they wanted to go to. They were in doubt in playing LVG's system with 5 defenders or playing 4-3-3. Hiddink got sacked Blind got appointed and he still has no clue + he has very few experience and needs good Assistent Managers to support him.

Since NL did not qualify for the Euro's they decided they needed more experienced assistent and they appointed Advocaat, who left after 3 friendlies to manage a Turkish club, so they asked Ruud Gullit, which does not wanna join because he heard from Van Basten (other assistent) that Van Basten is going to leave, which the KNVB didn't tell Gullit. Then the big man from the KNVB decides to quit his job and they appoint his right hand with no experience.

There is actually even more going on but this is already a wall of text lol. In short no one wants to work for the KNVB anymore because it's so toxic and instable and are just giving jobs to their friends.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Thanks for that insight Ix. Real sorry to read about the current mess and how far standards have fallen when in the not too distant past you lead the World in setting those standards with new innovations on how to train/ how the game should be played.

Sounds like it's not so much the Dutch system/ ideals that need an overhaul but more so the right football people need putting in charge from the highest position on down.

 

[Tyton]

What did they win though

Tbf England looked pretty ******* good in the quals and friendlies before the whole Capello-Terry-Ferdinand nonsense.

 

[RhQQ]

No real surprises at all from Sam, Woy would've picked this team tbf.

Hart, Walker, Cahill, Stones, Rose, Dier, Henderson, Lallana, Rooney, Sterling, Kane.

Fancy Sterling to have a big game, looks completely rejuvenated under Pep. I even chucked a tenner on him to score anytime in the entire match at 4/1 (looks a little overpriced).

 

[Theatre of dreams]

What ****!!! Just been listening on the HT report. Glad I'm not watching!

 

[Mike.]

Luke Shaw didn't die for this.

 

[ninjaskill]

Still expect England to qualify with some ease for the World Cup before going out in the group stage despite having the easiest one in the world cup

 

[RhQQ]

Skrtel gets away with so much, and not just tonight, should've got his marching orders at least once in the Euro's too (particularly against Wales if my memory serves me right). For such well known offenders in the game, both he and Pepe get away with so much.

 

[RhQQ]

Skrtel gets away with so much, and not just tonight, should've got his marching orders at least once in the Euro's too (particularly against Wales if my memory serves me right). For such well known offenders in the game, both he and Pepe get away with so much.

About time.

 

[ninjaskill]

Skrtel was told at half time to put his stamp on the game he missheard it as stamp on Kane

 

[Theatre of dreams]

I thought Woy was sacked or left? Thought Big Sam was gonna shake things up? Same **** different manager!

 

[Theatre of dreams]

We're gonna win the WC )))))

 

[RhQQ]

To be fair, Guardiola/Mourinho/Klopp/Ancelotti etc wouldn't win anything with this lot. I'm willing to face facts, English players are simply not as good as they, the media, or the majority of English people think they are, and that's not a dig, just the harsh reality. There's not one world class player in the side (Rooney has certain attributes that are world class, but his deterioration in other areas have lost him the 'world class' tag in my opinion). So it doesn't matter if it's Woy, or Big Sam, they're not going to play like Germany or France or Argentina, etc.

They got the 3 points, job done, nothing more & nothing less. If Wales, Scotland or Ireland got the win, they'd be happy, not overly complaining about the performance. It's almost as if England think they're some sort of sleeping giant of International football have a few pints & be happy!

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Predictable early evening of football.

England still bang average. Skrtel still a thug.

 

[Mike.]

it's not about World Class. It's about being a team, and being able to execute the basics. England don't do that/

Need to stop obsessing about individual players and the "world class" tag, and start utilising space and movement. Tactically inept.

 

[ninjaskill]

To be fair, Guardiola/Mourinho/Klopp/Ancelotti etc wouldn't win anything with this lot. I'm willing to face facts, English players are simply not as good as they, the media, or the majority of English people think they are, and that's not a dig, just the harsh reality. There's not one world class player in the side (Rooney has certain attributes that are world class, but his deterioration in other areas have lost him the 'world class' tag in my opinion). So it doesn't matter if it's Woy, or Big Sam, they're not going to play like Germany or France or Argentina, etc.

They got the 3 points, job done, nothing more & nothing less. If Wales, Scotland or Ireland got the win, they'd be happy, not overly complaining about the performance. It's almost as if England think they're some sort of sleeping giant of International football have a few pints & be happy!

Actually what makes Scottish fans happy a is England losing, supporting Scotland right now is to depressing to get happy about a win

 

[lxl Ra lxl]

it's not about World Class. It's about being a team, and being able to execute the basics. England don't do that/

Need to stop obsessing about individual players and the "world class" tag, and start utilising space and movement. Tactically inept.

Exactly. Look at Iceland.

 

[Tyton]

England's problem last couple of years is they keep trying to play like a big team, when they're not.

Time to swallow that Lion pride and get back to basics. This squad is perfectly fit to play a defensive, fast counter-attacking game, but every time I watch them it seems the players are convinced they are 1970 Brazil and fail miserably.

 

[RhQQ]

Exactly. Look at Iceland.

My point is that if Iceland lose, or go to say Slovakia and ****** a late 1-0 win, their nation & people wouldn't be slamming them left, right & centre. The Iclandic fans & media recognise that they're not a leading force in international football by any means, which is a leaf I think English fans & media should take out of their book (although tbf there's a lot people who know exactly where England are at, and don't expect that much, pity it's just not the majority). I mean, who's to say England should've went to Slovakia and slammed them tonight? Why are England better? Based on what? Because they're richer? Drive flashier cars? Beause Fifa or FM stats say so? Because the Premier League (widely regarded best league in the world) is English? The best players in the league are foreign, the champions of the league will be managed by a foreign manager, and as soon as any decent looking English youth breaks onto the scene they either have every camera, newspaper article and last bit of attention under the sun on him, or be chucked straight into international senior level without letting complete what I think, is the correct development stages, something a country like Spain would do (bring them up through u21's, etc). I'm glad to see Rashford back playing with his age group for England, let him develop, gain a few relationships & understanding with his peers there, and who knows? In a few years, 2-3 of who have played with each other in U21 tournaments and qualifying games, may be crucial for the senior team, as a team.

Germany know what they're about, Spain know what they're about, France know what they're about, England just chop & change different formations, managers & players every five minutes... it's hard to set anything in place, as the pundits in the studio said, they have no "identity". I personally think England are behind as many international teams now than they have been in some time, Wales are almost on par with them. Having said that, putting all of this criticism aside, I do think Sam has a good foundation to work with if given a lengthy tenure, with the emerging talent due to come through over the next few years, mixed with the few young players already on the scene and gaining experience cap-by-cap in Dele Alli, Ross Barkley (expect to see him force his way back onto the international scene), John Stones, Luke Shaw, etc., to push on inside the next 5-10 years and become a team in which can go into tournaments knowing what they're about, knowing their strengths & weaknesses, and being confident that they'll definitely be there/thereabouts in the business end.

And my two pence is that their strength, going forward at least, looks obvious?

Harry Kane offers little else apart from his strength/presence & ruthless finishing, and even that's amiss at the moment, Sturridge or Vardy are much more suited to what in my opinion, England would excel at; pace & fluency. With flair players available to them like Lallana, Barkley, Dele Alli, with pace on the wings in Sterling/Ox/Townsend/Walcott, it feels criminal to play possesion football and players dropping too deep to get the ball when they've got such pacey/fluent armory available to them... they're not world beaters as it is, so how could you expect them to be if not playing to their strengths? Play direct attacking football, making runs in behind with the pace they've got, getting down the flanks, playing little one-two's around the edge of the area with the technically gifted flair players they've got, and for crying out loud stop the strikers dropping 30 yards from goal to get a ball into feet, and just take gambles and make those continuous runs in behind.... the only time England looked dangerous tonight was when Sterling was slotted in a few times or when Rooney threaded one or two in behind to Walcott (albeit the most notable one was offside), but the common denominator? PACE to get in behind. The only time they looked good in the Euro's was when Kyle Walker & Danny Rose were bombing down each flank with PACE. How silly would Iceland have been if they rarely utilised Gunnarsson's long throw? How silly would Spain be with the best passers in the world (arguably), if didn't play possesion/passing football? If you know what your strengths are, why tinker with different things, it's silly.. that's my opinion.

 

[zzeezzy]

it's not about World Class. It's about being a team, and being able to execute the basics. England don't do that/

Need to stop obsessing about individual players and the "world class" tag, and start utilising space and movement. Tactically inept.

That's what happens when we keep appointing dinosaur managers from the stone age. Literally yesterday was a carbon copy of under Hodgson, there was no sense in appointing someone like Allardyce, other than being English...... like that matters.