Frankenstein Tactic 3-2-3-2

[bwomper]

Well,first season with Arrow tactic. I expected more goals for and less against,but for a first season with this tactic I like the results. I won everything I can win and the play is very nice. Its an interesting set of the DMC but I dont know if the equilibrium of the team can be changed. Champion,let me know how it goes if you prove that settings...and hows doing your team with this tactic!
Some screenshots

View attachment 297282 View attachment 297281
View attachment 297280 I like that just for the 75% of possesion lol

Let see how it goes next season,cheers mates

 

[champion7891]

Regen southampton side (won everything previous season (europa league, FA, Capital One, PL with a 253 variation of frankentien false 9)

changed to 3331 this season - keep in mind side is still developing

View attachment 297242View attachment 297241

won everything except capital one cup

oh and since its the PL I would never expect 180 league goals. 130 should be considered very very good, 150 odd would be like 200 in La Liga, I got 112 so expect more next season

Going to try a regista type variation though

 

[champion7891]

I don't know if their is - however my take on that would be

Formation positioning DMC - run from deep= rare or sometimes
all settings set to rare except through balls= often - very direct passing 15-18 - ppms try long passes & cross to the other side - creative freedom=0 - mentality=15-20 - closedown=10 - Try Holdupball if play becomes to slow take it off -

The idea is to make direct long pinpoint passes to the strikers or wingers which creates a clear cut opportunity and lead to a goal if your striker is quick and composed enough - technical attributes is a bonus for those strikers. I have seen this work!!

Cheers

hi thanks

I will try some different settings

Mentality I still want him to be anchorman like so I will keep it defensive but not the least defensive more like the notch jusy before normal (i.e. 6)

Creative freedom I know bwomper has it at Normal 10. I am thinking of upping it up to the minimum much i.e (14). I wonder if you could explain your reasoning behind 0 creative freedom

Passing Style Minimum direct i.e 14. Again though I was wondering if I set CF to 20 and Passing to normal i.e. 10 then he would use his decision making (and CF) to choose the best pass whether long, medium or short. But I will proceed with 14 for the next season

Roam from positon I am not sure about this. If I want him to play like Alonso or Busquets then I think it should be no but Pirlo moves about quite a lot so maybe I will tick it yes. At the moment I have decided No

Through Balls & run with ball Sometimes. Because of high creative freedom I am choosing to set through balls sometimes. Run from deep is rarely but I dont mind if he runs sometimes so set run with ball sometimes

Also a question for both Jes & Bwomper - the striker in the original 3331 is set to hold up ball no. If he is a tank striker and goals are supposed to come from midfield wont it make sense for him to hold up the ball? just asking for your thoughts

 

[bwomper]

Well,I said before not to expect the amount of goals from striker like with 2nd visit. If you see one screenshot,the best scorer of my team was the striker,but not the +40 like with 2nd visit or finalversion tactic. For me,with that settings the striker distribute the ball very well to the amc/l/r and the ofensive DM but can play for himself to score too.

 

[champion7891]

Well,I said before not to expect the amount of goals from striker like with 2nd visit. If you see one screenshot,the best scorer of my team was the striker,but not the +40 like with 2nd visit or finalversion tactic. For me,with that settings the striker distribute the ball very well to the amc/l/r and the ofensive DM but can play for himself to score too.

thanks

you are right, my highest scorer was the AMC with 28 goals is all competitions and STC with 20

 

[jesaustralia]

hi thanks

I will try some different settings

Mentality I still want him to be anchorman like so I will keep it defensive but not the least defensive more like the notch jusy before normal (i.e. 6)

Creative freedom I know bwomper has it at Normal 10. I am thinking of upping it up to the minimum much i.e (14). I wonder if you could explain your reasoning behind 0 creative freedom

Passing Style Minimum direct i.e 14. Again though I was wondering if I set CF to 20 and Passing to normal i.e. 10 then he would use his decision making (and CF) to choose the best pass whether long, medium or short. But I will proceed with 14 for the next season

Roam from positon I am not sure about this. If I want him to play like Alonso or Busquets then I think it should be no but Pirlo moves about quite a lot so maybe I will tick it yes

Also a question for both Jes & Bwomper - the striker in the original 3331 is set to hold up ball no. If he is a tank striker and goals are supposed to come from midfield wont it make sense for him to hold up the ball? just asking for your thoughts

Mentality doesn't determine how far up the pitch the player is - run from deep determines that - if he does go up the pitch its because he's taking a risk - a forward thinking movement - a forward thinking pass etc etc

CF=0 I want him to do what I tell him to do - with a high mentality and a direct passing style - often throughball he should be making long direct pinpoint passes if he has the decision and creativity attribute and the technique to carry it off.

holdupball could make sense, but if it doesn't it doesn't work try it and compare with original settings. frankenstein 2nd visit striker settings are close to perfect in my opinion - don't remember if they are the same as original frankenstein, I think they are.

cheers

 

[champion7891]

Mentality doesn't determine how far up the pitch the player is - run from deep determines that - if he does go up the pitch its because he's taking a risk - a forward thinking movement - a forward thinking pass etc etc

CF=0 I want him to do what I tell him to do - with a high mentality and a direct passing style - often throughball he should be making long direct pinpoint passes if he has the decision and creativity attribute and the technique to carry it off.

holdupball could make sense, but if it doesn't it doesn't work try it and compare with original settings. frankenstein 2nd visit striker settings are close to perfect in my opinion - don't remember if they are the same as original frankenstein, I think they are.

cheers

I do think mentality determines where the players ends up. At least with the DMs.

when I play 3 DMs all with Mentality 20 i always see them right in the opposition box, with mentality 2 they are just in front of the CDs and rarely found on the opposition box

I do admit though that whenever I have seen mentality 2 DM they have been run with ball rarely so I may be wrong. will try

 

[bwomper]

Jes,just make another Frankie modification ( called Frankie meets Leo ). Just change the AMR/AML settings for Messi role one (with a little changes) and try to make the AMC a kind of Laudrup. I set the possition like this. How it looks for you?

View attachment 297163

 

[jesaustralia]

I do think mentality determines where the players ends up. At least with the DMs.

when I play 3 DMs all with Mentality 20 i always see them right in the opposition box, with mentality 2 they are just in front of the CDs and rarely found on the opposition box

I do admit though that whenever I have seen mentality 2 DM they have been run with ball rarely so I may be wrong. will try

WWFAN - Tactics & Match Engine Moderator

Mentality: A risk and reward setting that needs to be arranged in a strategically coherent manner. The range of mentalities determines your strategic approach to the match. If the rage is too far apart, you do not have a strategic approach and will be incoherent. The incoherence will see players moving too far apart from each other as half think the overall strategy is defensive and half think they have to rush forward whenever the opportunity arrives. That is when you will see the "the gap between your defence and midfield is too big" or "your strikers are too far from your midfield" messages. If you get your mentality and Run from Deep / FWRs structures right, you can't go too far wrong.Creative Freedom: A flair boost. Also requires strategic coherence. Either you a) think all players should have and follow highly defined jobs, b) think all players should do a bit of everything or c) position yourself between the camps. Low CF means that players have a greater tendency to follow instructions. High CF gives them permission to try alternatives. Because Andy Caroll is a bit of a lump does not mean he has to be given low CF. High CF might encourage him to try a few other options than blasting the ball at goal. It cannot be perfectly defined because it will affect each player differently according to their natural tendencies. Creative freedom is defined by how the manager wants his team to play. Tuning down individual players' CF because you don't think they should have CF is 100% the wrong way to look at it. The question is whether you want them to rigidly obey your instructions or have some freedom to play as they feel best.

Sigames forum member saids
Mentality: How high up the pitch a player is positioned (within his position) + How attack minded he is when in possession. Higher mentality means more forward passes; lower mentality means more 'safe' passes.

WWFAN Saids:
Not 100% correct. Passing directness and TTBs encourage more or less forward passes. Mentality determines whether the player will try it or not depending on the risk involved. Similarly for movement. If a player has FWRs and a higher mentality, then he is far more likely to make the FWR or push upfield into space even when doing so is risky. In contrast, a lower mentality player is more likely to delay the run or stay deep until any risk has disappeared.

Jesaustralia:
So for us that means if we want to create a regista - Run from deep=rare - a balanced mentality 10-15 -
TTB(Try through balls)=Often - Direct passing 15-18

Sigames forum member saids
Creative Freedom How much freedom is afforded to players to ignore tactical instructions. When in possession players with high creative freedom will pursue their own ideas ignoring set instructions from the team instructions tab or specific role tab. When not in possession players will more readily move into spaces they see opening up in front of them. Low levels of Creative freedom will see your players stick to your instructions and not attempt daring passes, shots or runs into spaces even if they see them opening up in front of them. So be wise who you give creative freedom to; a good indicator to judge who to give high levels of creative freedom to is Decisions.

WWFAN saids:
Also not correct, I'm afraid. CF does not relate at all to the level of daring for a pass, shot or run. Mentality and passing, shooting and RWB instructions do. CF only relates to the degree to which they might do things other than pass, shoot or run, even when their instructions are to pass, shoot or run.

As stated in the OP, there is no player by player indicator that relates to CF. It is better employed as a holistic tactical instruction. If you think players should be allowed their head, high CF everywhere. If not, then low CF everywhere. A team with good decisions might benefit from high CF, but it might also benefit from following set instructions closely.

Low CF means that players have a greater tendency to follow instructions
High CF gives them permission to try alternatives

It cannot be perfectly defined because it will affect each player differently according to their natural tendencies. Creative freedom is defined by how the manager wants his team to play.

Jesaustralia:

Each position should have its own max setting in Mentality and CF in my opinion. All this is intriguing and makes me try a few new stuff.

DM mentality=10 seems great and should maybe be its max setting if acting like an anchorman that creates from deep
AM mentality=12 plays really well and works perfectly together with the 2 dmc's in frankenstein.

Run from deep
dm=sometimes seems really good
am=rare

Creative freedom - depending on the player quality
dm=14 max
Am=14 max
Sc=10 max
AML/R=14 max
DC=12 max

I just saw Cavani score 5 goals in one match with cf=10

I hope some of the above clarify a few things - its how it is

cheers

 

[jesaustralia]

Jes,just make another Frankie modification ( called Frankie meets Leo ). Just change the AMR/AML settings for Messi role one (with a little changes) and try to make the AMC a kind of Laudrup. I set the possition like this. How it looks for you?

View attachment 780951

Yea I abandoned - your new lone striker tactic though it did look good. I wanted to experiment myself with new settings - so I went back to frankenstein 2nd visit and modified it, with the aim to create 2 withdrawn registas that would make play direct long passes to the players upfield. I overall are pretty satisfied. I changed passing lenght for 7 players so a more direct style. The Amc is blossoming and playing very good football. Mentality=12 TTB=often everything else=rare - CF=14 - passing=15
I found it safe to give CF=14 to most positions - strikers I gave 10 and defenders still on 0. However when playing with top teams like we do I think you can give everyone 10+. I think your take on Laudrup is really clever with the crossing=often - mentality would be higher for me though that's because of

(Mentality determines whether the player will try it or not depending on the risk involved
In this case the risky pass - the through ball - Michael Laudrup's biggest trait killer balls splitting the defence open while looking away. A kind of a trickster with his passes to the strikers. Oh and it looked so elegant when he did these precise passes. I miss him

If you want the dm's to be more defensive midfielder like you should lower the mentality to about 10 - set the through balls to often - run from deep=sometimes or rare - anything else on rare. I also think you can safely put CF=10-14 this will improve defence but also give more room for aml/r - amc and strikers in the box and most probably make those up front more dangerous. Don't get me wrong I like the dmc's langvatn created these because he saw a flaw in the match engine - box to box midfielders do really well, but in frankenstein their is already 5 men up their so for more balance that probably wouldn't hurt. I feel Pirlo like types would be brilliant in frankenstein also as discussed above. They will still be pretty offensive I believe. Anyway I still love everything you have achieved with original frankenstein its near perfection and I have had many hours of enjoyment out of that to be honest and even though I tell you about some settings it doesn't mean I'm right, I'm just trying to inspire and share my own experiences. Its really great to see you guys are still so active with this game, I am for sure on it as well, but thats mostly because of you guys - you keep it alive

Try and read the post above a few times because it makes alot of sense - balance is key in alot of the settings different for each position.

Cheers

ps bwomper - tell me how it goes with your Laudrup setting

 

[jesaustralia]

This is also why the pressure tactic worked so well - the tactic that had amazing closing down - mentalities was set individually for all players. Refering back to this post again

 

[bwomper]

thanks for the tips jes. This season I will go with arrow tactic and but I will experiment in cup games with the laudrup settings...I will implement your tips because I think my laudrups settings can be improve with your tips.

 

[bwomper]

Trying the Frankie meets Leo tactic ( with a try to Laudrup role )

Well,I try this tactic full flued for first time and I choose a CL game vs Celtic Glasgow at home (easy one I guess)

New roles in some positions with the 2nd Visit template

View attachment 296870 a little bit modify of Messi`s Role for the AML/AMR

View attachment 296869 my new try to make the Laudrup`s Role ( I think I failed...but doesnt mean the AMC played bad...not bad at all lol )

View attachment 296868 and the new configuration for the DMs,like jes tell me,DMs can be less offensive because the 2 strikers+ 3 AM can work better with less people in the box. And I wanted to try. (not bad too)

Well...and now the match....did you remember the 75% possesion game vs Hercules?...well

View attachment 296866 As you can see Wiersma,who play at the AMC spot (laudrup role) score a hat-trick. He play so nice with a nice mix of short and direct passes but is not the "playmaker" game that I look for. ( Somebody use the "playmaker" option in classic tactics? maybe is a plus for Laudrup Role )

Anyway,was a awesome game,with nice goals,especially this one I gonna show you. A direct passes from the DM and nice 1rst touch pass and shoot.
[video=youtube_share;gFqltUKgWtw]http://youtu.be/gFqltUKgWtw[/video]

Any advice for make the AMC more passer than finisher? lol anyway is not bad tweak of the 2nd visit. If someone want it like this I will upload the tactic. But it was just the fisrt game,need to prove more.

Cheers mates

 

[jesaustralia]

Well,I try this tactic full flued for first time and I choose a CL game vs Celtic Glasgow at home (easy one I guess)

New roles in some positions with the 2nd Visit template

View attachment 781748 a little bit modify of Messi`s Role for the AML/AMR

View attachment 781750 my new try to make the Laudrup`s Role ( I think I failed...but doesnt mean the AMC played bad...not bad at all lol )

View attachment 781753 and the new configuration for the DMs,like jes tell me,DMs can be less offensive because the 2 strikers+ 3 AM can work better with less people in the box. And I wanted to try. (not bad too)

Well...and now the match....did you remember the 75% possesion game vs Hercules?...well

View attachment 781757 As you can see Wiersma,who play at the AMC spot (laudrup role) score a hat-trick. He play so nice with a nice mix of short and direct passes but is not the "playmaker" game that I look for. ( Somebody use the "playmaker" option in classic tactics? maybe is a plus for Laudrup Role )

Anyway,was a awesome game,with nice goals,especially this one I gonna show you. A direct passes from the DM and nice 1rst touch pass and shoot.
[video=youtube_share;gFqltUKgWtw]http://youtu.be/gFqltUKgWtw[/video]

Any advice for make the AMC more passer than finisher? lol anyway is not bad tweak of the 2nd visit. If someone want it like this I will upload the tactic. But it was just the fisrt game,need to prove more.

Cheers mates

Yes would like to try it with my freak Barcelona side - Laudrup ps=20 rwb=rare cross=rare Mentality=?

cheers mate and nice direct football in the video

 

[bwomper]

Yes would like to try it with my freak Barcelona side - Laudrup ps=20 rwb=rare cross=rare Mentality=?

cheers mate and nice direct football in the video

Here you are. I will try more configurations later.

 

[bwomper]

Well,the second season with Arrow tactic was pretty close to the first so I think Im done with improve this tactic.

About the "frankie meets Leo" mmm I have my doubts. Is very unestable tactic and I think Im done with this tactic too.

Back to Frankenstein FinalVersion for next season and maybe I will tweak the AMR/AML for keep more possesion but I dont know.... hope you enjoy all the tactics in this post!

 

[champion7891]

Hello!

I've been busy lately so haven't really been able to test the 3331 with the DMC as a regista type. Thanks Jes for your detailed reply. I tried my regista type for 3 or 4 matches but did not enjoy it much, so shifted to what Bwomper has done in http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...kenstein-tactic-3-2-3-2-a-54.html#post2560616.

I still have to say that I am not really happy with these regista type settings. Watching on comprehensive, I rarely if ever see the DMC make long passes, its usually either short and/or safe. However, results overall have been good.

View attachment 295787View attachment 295786View attachment 295785View attachment 295784View attachment 295783View attachment 295782

My DMC is a player called Tomas Wlecliakowski, 20 in passing, creativity and decisions. he usually has the most passes but I dont see him create any meaningful chances through long range passing

on the other hand, my AMR is just superb. He dribbles and dribbles and dribbles - just a joy to watch. AML does that too but not as much, AMR is very Robben like

I would say that pace and dribbling are almost as important as passing and creativity for the AML/AMRs

Lastly, when using three striker systems I had the problem of having a huge number of shots but only a few on target, this seems to have resurfaced with this. Looking at the sunderland game that I posted, only 10/33 shots were on target, and although I completely controlled the game, the result was not indicative of that. Even if 50% of the shots are on target I think the goal-scoring potential for this tactic is massive - considering that I am playing in the Premier League that all the more amazing

 

[hastings1066]

This is my latest match using The Frankenstein 10+ Home and away with some change in player instructions. View attachment 295760

 

[Saampje17]

Hey hastings1066,

What changes did you make in the player instructions?

 

[hastings1066]

I usually use The Frankenstein 10+ Home and away tactic from Jesaustralia and for the changes, they are:
DCR,DCL: reduce CF to Little( around 5).
AMR,AML: using this: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/atta...ting-how-legends-play-emmerich-role-instr.png (increase CF & CL to 20)
And for the 2 Strikers just increase CF to 10 and make them Move into channels.
All this is my latest match, it 's my personal record about the shots in 1 match:
View attachment 295472

I think the better all your players are, the better football they will play.
PS: Sr for my bad english.