In-depth Tactic comparison thread

[Igneos79]

ccc's is a stat that people usually look at to judge a tactic. But ccc's and stats don't win games. I personally played more then a few matches where I was more then beaten regarding statistics, and I still won. Italian football for example relies on strong defending, and you will usually beat an italian team in statistics if you play pressing, possession football, but you will not manage to score. Your shots will be blocked, off target, or some of their defenders will simply put off your striker even if he has a ccc. And they will score on that one and only counter attack opportunity they had. Hannover manager in RL I think is doing this, playing counter attack, so precise that he wins 3-0 or 4-0 on counter opportunities alone. He defends very deep, very rigid philosophy with a disciplined team and great defenders, and he uses very fast wingers to score on the counter. He is standing off and wins the balls by intercepting moves, not by closing down, therefore his team is incredibly hard to brake down, and he can only conceede from a long shot or a free kick or a penalty. And he loses in all statistics, except the most important one, goals. That is the next tactic I want to make.

http://bundesligafanatic.com/the-ar...–-a-look-at-slomka’s-efficient-hannover-side/

 

[epic terrorist]

Thing is in tactic and game difficulty, or so I think. I think, for example, game gives you 100% bonus on start of the game, and then it gradually decreases it. That is why you win like 20 games, and then lose. I'm not familiar with game coding enough to tell you exactly when you get bonus, and when the counter restarts, but I'm claiming that if your tactic is flawless (important!!!), and in other aspects you are also better, you will win. Regardless what season you are playing. When bonus expires, you are on equall terms with the AI, and the AI is usually flawless regarding tactic, and that is why you will lose. Of course, playing style, counter attacking, home or away, morale, training, it all plays a part, but in essence, if you screw up one single instruction, ai will find a way to exploit it.

this is false there is no game bonus or anything of the sort the ME does not discriminate between the player or the AI so there is no decreasing bonus, the only thing that changes stuff is starting experience for example if you put international players are more likely to listen to your team talks and give better reactions etc and also the players you can attract.

 

[a31632]

ccc's is a stat that people usually look at to judge a tactic. But ccc's and stats don't win games. I personally played more then a few matches where I was more then beaten regarding statistics, and I still won. Italian football for example relies on strong defending, and you will usually beat an italian team in statistics if you play pressing, possession football, but you will not manage to score. Your shots will be blocked, off target, or some of their defenders will simply put off your striker even if he has a ccc. And they will score on that one and only counter attack opportunity they had. Hannover manager in RL I think is doing this, playing counter attack, so precise that he wins 3-0 or 4-0 on counter opportunities alone. He defends very deep, very rigid philosophy with a disciplined team and great defenders, and he uses very fast wingers to score on the counter. He is standing off and wins the balls by intercepting moves, not by closing down, therefore his team is incredibly hard to brake down, and he can only conceede from a long shot or a free kick or a penalty. And he loses in all statistics, except the most important one, goals. That is the next tactic I want to make.

The Art of the Counter Attack – A Look at Slomka’s Efficient Hannover Side | Bundesliga Fanatic

I agree with you that in the end it's all about making the best of your opportunities and score goals. Who cares if you had more shots on goal and more CCC if you make that one goal, against all odds, and win the Champions League final........ However, I don't agree that you should judge a tactic not by looking at CCC and shot on target ratio's etc. It's like in poker, if you bet with better cards, you might lose a few hands because others with a weaker hand bet and get lucky. Same applies here, if you create consistently (so not just once every while) create more CCC with your tactic and get more shots on goal than the competition, your chances of winning also increase. I'm curious about you creating a solid counter attacking tactic. Personally I like playing from a closed defense and catching my opponent off guard. I don't like 5-3, 4-2 etc. score lines, but prefer the clean 1-0 or 2-0 victories where you hardly gave any chances away. Cheers, keep me updated on your "Hannover project" ;-)

 

[dimartino]

this It's a mariolicious xmas tree 3-4-3-0 (3T’s) is really strange. Like some players don't have any individual instructions, the two wide Trequartista don't have the same instructions. It seems like it was done my someone who didn't knew what he was doing. The middle trequartista was clearly moved from the striker position, and obviously lost all instructions, and stayed that way. I'm just trying to understand, has the tactic works very well, but seems to follow no method, other that simple position the players in the right place.

 

[a31632]

this It's a mariolicious xmas tree 3-4-3-0 (3T’s) is really strange. Like some players don't have any individual instructions, the two wide Trequartista don't have the same instructions. It seems like it was done my someone who didn't knew what he was doing. The middle trequartista was clearly moved from the striker position, and obviously lost all instructions, and stayed that way. I'm just trying to understand, has the tactic works very well, but seems to follow no method, other that simple position the players in the right place.

I didn't change any of the players instructions, as I am not the creator of this tactic. You are correct that the two wide Trequartista's have different instructions, but that was already the case in the original tactic. The striker position was an advanced forward (attack) with only "roam from position" as instruction. When that one was pulled back into an AM with Trequartista role "roam from position" is not showing anymore, as this is already active for his new role anyways.
I understand your questions but as I am not the creator and didn't make any other changes than indicated, for test purposes, I think it would be best if you direct your questions to the creator. I'm not sure if this tactic is available here, but I have a link to the creator's post on "community.sigames.com". Here it is: How to dominate with a lesser side!

 

[a31632]

Do you have a link for your tweaked Artisan tactic?


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I created a link with all tactics included for download. I tweaked my Antonio Conte 3-5-2 a bit more and made a new post with download link. Here it is: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/shar...176912-antonio-conte-3-5-2-a.html#post2313203

 

[bebetu]

I made some tweaks to fit my atacking players better in Mariolicious 3T.I replaced 2 wide trequartistas with shadow striker role since trequartistas are to expensive yet for my team and cannot afford good ones.Also i tweaked left DLP from suport to defend duty since tactic has control mentality and sometimes he goes forward to much leaving gaps to be exploited for counteratacks if posession is lost .And is working great cant complain:
-1st season got promoted and reached final cup
-2nd season finished 2nd in first division(last place for Champions league playoffs battle for reaching groups) ,semifinals in cup
-atm im 3rd season at the begining but amazingly my team(worth 4 milion euros in total) just knocked out an extremely stats overpumped Shakthar(5-4 aggregates) worth 160 milion and Napoli team worth 200 milion(2-1 aggregates) and i reached group stages lol.Ofc some luck was involved Napoli was in 10 man and they wasted some silly chances but i think tactic has his part in this succes,luck needs be backed by something solid and this tactic is solid it can give u some chances vs big teams as no other tactic arround.
Also i made some improvements in defensive corner setup(zonal defending extremely tough to be exploited).I think more people should try this tactic(not necesarily my tweaked but even original or a31632 version),its higly underrated and dunno why isnt more popular yet.It works great for all kind of teams both for underdogs and big teams if someone wants try my tweaked version ill upload here(offensive corner is still a work in progress in rest everything is perfect).
Maralicious(my tweaked tactic)->https://www.mediafire.com/?b4ij9rrxakyphso
Waste version(use this only and only last 15 min to protect lead)->https://www.mediafire.com/?m2lkwdjbam3xbum

 

[a31632]

I made some tweaks to fit my atacking players better in Mariolicious 3T.I replaced 2 wide trequartistas with shadow striker role since trequartistas are to expensive yet for my team and cannot afford good ones.Also i tweaked left DLP from suport to defend duty since tactic has control mentality and sometimes he goes forward to much leaving gaps to be exploited for counteratacks if posession is lost .And is working great cant complain:
-1st season got promoted and reached final cup
-2nd season finished 2nd in first division(last place for Champions league playoffs battle for reaching groups) ,semifinals in cup
-atm im 3rd season at the begining but amazingly my team(worth 4 milion euros in total) just knocked out an extremely stats overpumped Shakthar(5-4 aggregates) worth 160 milion and Napoli team worth 200 milion(2-1 aggregates) and i reached group stages lol.Ofc some luck was involved Napoli was in 10 man and they wasted some silly chances but i think tactic has his part in this succes,luck needs be backed by something solid and this tactic is solid it can give u some chances vs big teams as no other tactic arround.
Also i made some improvements in defensive corner setup(zonal defending extremely tough to be exploited).I think more people should try this tactic(not necesarily my tweaked but even original or a31632 version),its higly underrated and dunno why isnt more popular yet.It works great for all kind of teams both for underdogs and big teams if someone wants try my tweaked version ill upload here(offensive corner is still a work in progress in rest everything is perfect).
Maralicious(my tweaked tactic)->https://www.mediafire.com/?b4ij9rrxakyphso
Waste version(use this only and only last 15 min to protect lead)->https://www.mediafire.com/?m2lkwdjbam3xbum

Good job!
I will have a look at your tweaks and thanks for your feedback, as always.

I'm not going to test the tweaked tactic in a full test though, I'm now actually playing a new game with a friend (network game) and I use my latest "Antonio Conte 3-5-2" version as the starting tactic.
After spending more than 700 hours on testing I'm pretty much done, especially with FM2015 approaching fast.

There were multiple tactics that performed abut the same with my PSV Eindhoven team, too close a call to elect a "winner".
So I chose my "Conte" tactic as I like the formation an I use my players most effectively.

Glad you love the tactic and it is working out so good!

 

[bebetu]

A31362 i still think your version with 3 trequartistas is the ideal setup for this tactic.And this setup works best when u are a big team with "alot of money" kind of team and u play vs much smaller teams.Creativity from trequartistas works best in this case scenario and is best to be leted at his full potential and this creativity is really needed since fluidity in this tactic is rigid.And is logical because trequartista is the role with highest creative freedom from all roles.But my tweak i think works abit better if u are a "smaller" team because of 2 reasons:
-good trequartistas are expensive because they need be high in too many stats all that are involved for:technical,creativity,atacking,mentals,acceleration,agility.
-for shadow striker ideal for me is to use poachers with decent passing stat and good in atacking and with lesser technical,creativity and are more cheaper when u are a small team.
Need to add a negative result though,first game vs M.City away in group stages lost 6-0,cant explain what happend my players gave up to pressure, it seems meeting 1 bilion euro team,100 times more expensive than u is just too much,u cant expect wonders.But anyway in same group i beated Dortmund away 2-1 but i should won 5-1 or 6-1 but i substitute one of my SS to late in game when he already wasted 4 central CCC and he had under 6 rating.
Ah and i forgot to mention that vs Dortmund i made a minor tweak,changed retain possesion with pass into space i think its much better when u meet alot higher reputation team and they will aproach u with atacking mentality high defensive line and high closing down.After i lost to M City with 6-0 i thought this was one of the reasons(u cant make tiki taka vs "supersayan" team ) and i wanted to try this and this is the result:
View attachment 334522

 

[bebetu]

Too bad with this ME because tactic is very good,for example i had 3-0 vs Zenit than suddenly they changed to a "miracoulos tactic" or "miracoulos script" as 442 from 4231 and they managed to equalise me with 2 goals in last 10 min on while i was full defensive mode with contain and waste mode and confortable 2 goals lead last 10 min.Such a bulsh1t of ME seriously,dunno why i still bother with this game....
Also i need to add here that i made a draw with ai in league while i had 1-0 and they equalise me 1-1 playing with 2 man eliminated as 4-2-2 and my team could not pass the half pitch line haha,it was a parody of a game.

 

[bebetu]

A31632 sry for earlier posts,got abit frustrated because of ME anomalies.Anyway i was thinking to try something else for upcoming season.Comparing Antonio Conte with Maralicious from your tests i see that Antonio Conte works abit better for high reputation teams while Maralicious works abit better for lower reputation team so for next season ill try some hybrid Antonio Conte tactic while keeping rigid fluidity and Play Narrower from Maralicious.Ill use this tactic as underdog vs higher reputation teams and your Antonio Conte version when im the favourite or when chasing goals.

 

[a31632]

A31632 sry for earlier posts,got abit frustrated because of ME anomalies.Anyway i was thinking to try something else for upcoming season.Comparing Antonio Conte with Maralicious from your tests i see that Antonio Conte works abit better for high reputation teams while Maralicious works abit better for lower reputation team so for next season ill try some hybrid Antonio Conte tactic while keeping rigid fluidity and Play Narrower from Maralicious.Ill use this tactic as underdog vs higher reputation teams and your Antonio Conte version when im the favourite or when chasing goals.

No problem at all!
The ME is causing us all a lot of grief here, that is why I have been looking and trying to find the one tactic that actually beats the ME. Your idea makes sense and I tried the "Antonio Conte 3-5-2" with different styles (Attacking, Counter even Defensive) I also tried it with all other fluidity options, very rigid till very fluid.
Remember I tested over 15 different versions of "Conte" before I posted the final one.

I didn't try every variation, so might be that you can now do a test on another variation I didn't cover yet.
Like I said, after 700+ hours of testing I'm done, especially because my PSV team has been performing very good again with my latest version.

Having said that, I am very curious what your test and experiments will bring, so please keep me updated.
If you, after all testing, feel you have found THE tactic, I will run my 50 game test environment on it, to see how it will compare to the other 51 that made it to the spreadsheet.

Good luck!

 

[Arrow]

Hi, attached the spreadsheet with the results ONLY for the "underdog team" (Real Betis in Spain, media prediction 12th) http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=54682496402195997749

a31632 can you post mariolicious xmas with your tweaks 3-4-3-0???

 

[a31632]

Hi, attached the spreadsheet with the results ONLY for the "underdog team" (Real Betis in Spain, media prediction 12th) http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=54682496402195997749

a31632 can you post mariolicious xmas with your tweaks 3-4-3-0???

It is in post #27 and repeated in #29.

Good luck!

 

[Robelink]

your job was awesome! in your opinion which one was the most sucessful tactic?

 

[a31632]

your job was awesome! in your opinion which one was the most sucessful tactic?

It's a mariolicious xmas tree 3-4-3-0 (3T’s) played very beautiful football, lots of possession too.
It performed great with both teams, and created lots of chances.

vanGaalUtd (which is the "new lease of life" version, there are more similar named tactics out there) also was a good one that I liked.

With my PSV Eindhoven team "Umbrella Pinball Tiki-Taka" was awesome with beautiful football and as I play that team now it was my 2nd favorite.
I created "Antonio Conte 3-5-2" (very similar to v11, just did minor tweaks) based on "Umbrella". The CCC ratio of the Artisan version was the highest and I like the formation.
That combined with the passing style and most of "Umbrellas" instructions made it my favorite one as CCCs are still very good but now it performed and looked better in the games.

Very close call for me between these four tactics

 

[Robelink]

It's a mariolicious xmas tree 3-4-3-0 (3T’s) played very beautiful football, lots of possession too.
It performed great with both teams, and created lots of chances.

vanGaalUtd (which is the "new lease of life" version, there are more similar named tactics out there) also was a good one that I liked.

With my PSV Eindhoven team "Umbrella Pinball Tiki-Taka" was awesome with beautiful football and as I play that team now it was my 2nd favorite.
I created "Antonio Conte 3-5-2" (very similar to v11, just did minor tweaks) based on "Umbrella". The CCC ratio of the Artisan version was the highest and I like the formation.
That combined with the passing style and most of "Umbrellas" instructions made it my favorite one as CCCs are still very good but now it performed and looked better in the games.

Very close call for me between these four tactics

thanks alot for your oppinion!

I just got promoted to PL with Sheff Utd and I can't decide between Van Gaal Utd and your antonio conte 3-5-2 tweak, what tactic you think I should use?

 

[a31632]

thanks alot for your oppinion!

I just got promoted to PL with Sheff Utd and I can't decide between Van Gaal Utd and your antonio conte 3-5-2 tweak, what tactic you think I should use?

If I were you I would have a closer look at my spreadsheet for the "no. 12 media prediction team"
Most statistics are very, vey similar. Same shots on goal ratio, CCC ratio (although Conte 3-5-2 is slightly better)
Only thing noteworthy is possession.
With vGaalUtd, even though you have a "weaker" team, you still have over 50% possession, with Conte 3-5-2 it is 4% lower.

So it all depends on which tactic fits your players best.
If you think your payers can manage more possession: choose vGaalUtd, if your players would be more comfortable leaving possession slightly more to the opposition: choose Conte 3-5-2.

Player positions are very similar, so that wouldn't be a factor in this case.

 

[RobertoNUFC]

Great work. I'm interested in the 'peps bayern' tactic but can't find the thread. Could you please tell me the creator or original thread? Thanks!


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[a31632]

Great work. I'm interested in the 'peps bayern' tactic but can't find the thread. Could you please tell me the creator or original thread? Thanks!


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No problem at all. Here is the link to the thread with the tactic: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/shar...**bayern-tiki-taka-under-pep-guardiola**.html I also have a link with a download for all tactics in the tests in the OP, just so you know!