Is Messi Over-rated?

[Tyton]

I happen to agree that calling Pele best player in the history is propably a bit too much. That being said, just to clear up some misconceptions:

- Pepe wouldn't make it now because game is more physical. Well, it is. But Pele was , above else, an amazing athlete. Just look at the guy, he was build like a truck. If we had a time machine, I bet some of todays defenders would have a nasty suprise when trying to tackle this "wimp from the 50s"

- Pele was even more awesome because he played with "heavy balls". How many of you actually played with ball like that? It wasn't made of stone, it was still a football. If 10 year old me could power that thing into the net from the box area, I'm sure footballing superstars from 2013 would manage. New balls only really make much of a difference when shooting from outside the box. Unless "heavy balls" refers to Pele's sack, in which case, don't mind me.

 

[Fish Hunter]

Why do we have this discussion again?

 

[ajt09]

I happen to agree that calling Pele best player in the history is propably a bit too much. That being said, just to clear up some misconceptions:

- Pepe wouldn't make it now because game is more physical. Well, it is. But Pele was , above else, an amazing athlete. Just look at the guy, he was build like a truck. If we had a time machine, I bet some of todays defenders would have a nasty suprise when trying to tackle this "wimp from the 50s"

- Pele was even more awesome because he played with "heavy balls". How many of you actually played with ball like that? It wasn't made of stone, it was still a football. If 10 year old me could power that thing into the net from the box area, I'm sure footballing superstars from 2013 would manage. New balls only really make much of a difference when shooting from outside the box. Unless "heavy balls" refers to Pele's sack, in which case, don't mind me.

I've headed one of those aforementioned balls only once-and by god it damwell wrecks your head lol

 

[JP Woody]

Well, tbf if the other players are having a pretty poor game around him he does tend to suffer as there's no decent supply going through to him. And majority of the time he's pretty much marked quite heavily and struggles to get free to get the ball-but he does work very hard to compensate for other players mistakes so he's in positions that aren't natural so when he does get the ball, he can't do what he does best. But in the PL he's just absolutely superb. Admittedly, I have missed some England games but the ones I have seen when we've been poor, he's been devoid of a good supply and has suffered.

If he was world class he would shine even with average players around him, we've seen it plenty of times in international teams. Maradona in 86 and 90 stood out, Hristo Stoichkov at Bulgaria, Hagi Romania, Enzo Francescoli Uruguay, all stood out despite not having the best quality around them. Its common knowledge Rooney hasnt lived up to the hype when it comes to England. He's not alone though, one of the best player's iv'e ever seen in my lifetime was John Barnes in his prime for Liverpool, he couldn't do it for England either though.

 

[Tyton]

I've headed one of those aforementioned balls only once-and by god it damwell wrecks your head lol

Yeah, heading is a different story, especially since they've had a bit rough surface so it could leave a mark if you hit it badly. Also, if it rained, the ball really does get seriously heavy. But otherwise its really not that much different when you're taking a shot from penalty area.

 

[ajt09]

If he was world class he would shine even with average players around him, we've seen it plenty of times in international teams. Maradona in 86 and 90 stood out, Hristo Stoichkov at Bulgaria, Hagi Romania, Enzo Francescoli Uruguay, all stood out despite not having the best quality around them. Its common knowledge Rooney hasnt lived up to the hype when it comes to England. He's not alone though, one of the best player's iv'e ever seen in my lifetime was John Barnes in his prime for Liverpool, he couldn't do it for England either though.

Fair point. Maybe his tempremant can get the better of him and hinders him? Tries too hard? Don't know. But when he's firing on all cylinders he can be world class on the pitch. The best striker we had in my lifetime was Lineker. He was just superb and finished 2nd to Charlton by only 1 goal. We've come incredibly close to winning the world cup with Lineker spearheading. I'll just say pen shootout to sum it up lol (and Maradonna cheating of course)

 

[Tyton]

In all fairness to Rooney, a lot of top stars nowadays don't quite perform on their club level during the big summer tournaments. It got to a point where I'm surprised if someone does perform on their usual level.

 

[Mike.]

In all fairness to Rooney, a lot of top stars nowadays don't quite perform on their club level during the big summer tournaments. It got to a point where I'm surprised if someone does perform on their usual level.

I cant remember the last time he turned up full fit to a tournament though. 2006?

Didnt qualify for 08

Arrived barely back from injury 10

Arrived unfit from suspension 12 ( no sympathy here, his own fault)

 

[robertlecomber09]

If you look at Rooney's records, pretty difficult to say he's over rated, especially when the substance is there. Over-hyped yes, but not over rated. They are not the same thing. Same could be said about Messi. Over hyped, but certainly not over-rated. He is the best player on the planet. But sometimes there is too much talk about him.

im sorry but i disagree i think rooney is over rated he doesnt score enough thats why fergie had to get someone who could score enough rooney is over hyped and over rated

 

[ajt09]

Rooney may not score EVERY SINGLE TIME, but his contribution on the pitch when he's on top of his game is second to none. did you not see his pass to RVP from midfield to set up RVP for his goal? His bicycle kick against City? His goal for Everton against Arsenal? Yeah he also has bad games but who doesn't? Come on be realistic

 

[Mike.]

im sorry but i disagree i think rooney is over rated he doesnt score enough thats why fergie had to get someone who could score enough rooney is over hyped and over rated

... Rooney scored over 30 goals last season. In fact both seasons he has played as the front man he has scored 30+

 

[Lee]

[video=youtube;6rT_coZsiMA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rT_coZsiMA[/video]

 

[robertlecomber09]

2008-09 goals scored 20, 2009-2010 goals scored 34, 2010-11 goals scored 16, 2011-12 goals scored 34, this season as of 26 march according to wiki goals scored 16 not always 30+ goals a season striker

 

[Mike.]

2008-09 goals scored 20, 2009-2010 goals scored 34, 2010-11 goals scored 16, 2011-12 goals scored 34, this season as of 26 march according to wiki goals scored 16 not always 30+ goals a season striker

only 2009-10 and 2011-12 did he play as an out and out striker...

08-09, he was an number 10, or an AML, 10-11 he was back to a number 10 behind Hernandez, and again this season he's been a number 10 behind RVP, and couple of times a central midielder.

 

[robertlecomber09]

ok so if he that reliable as a striker why did fergie get in rvp as main striker, and fergie has stated himself that the diffrence between united and city is rvp

 

[ajt09]

The threads about Messi is it not? Not Rooney? But yeah. Rooney is world class. Because (and surprise surprise I'm repeating myself) of what he can do on the pitch for the team and national side.

 

[Mike.]

ok so if he that reliable as a striker why did fergie get in rvp as main striker, and fergie has stated himself that the diffrence between united and city is rvp

Because we lost out on goal difference even with Rooney's 34 goals?
Because you can never have enough goals?
Because we usually have 4 strikers?
Because he wanted the best strike force we've had since 1999?
Because it means we can play a goalscoring and goal-creating 10 behind one of the best forwards in the world?

The fact that RVP was the major difference is irrelevant to Rooney's record

 

[Mike.]

The threads about Messi is it not? Not Rooney? But yeah. Rooney is world class. Because (and surprise surprise I'm repeating myself) of what he can do on the pitch for the team and national side.

Im surprised there was even a debate on Messi.

 

[ajt09]

Im surprised there was even a debate on Messi.

I know it's just....wha-?! There is no doubt whatsoever he is world class, and not a chance whatsoever he is overrated whatsoever. But it goes beyond the borders of what a sane comment is when in the same thread, Rooney is said to be overrated. Although I stand by my opinion he isn't the greatest ever in footballing history (and that's not an attack on him) yet though like I said before, he is without doubt well on his way in this generation-he's just about unstoppable. And for some reason he just annoys me-because some of the stuff he does on the pitch is just insane and he shouldn't be able to do it

 

[furkankocak]

Messi is over-rated, fact.
Some expecting changes in FM 2014:
Decrease Increase
Anticipation: 19>18 Pace: 15>16
Passing: 19>17 Stamina: 13>14
Long Shots: 17>13 Concentration: 14>15
Free Kicks: 17>15 Off The Ball: 18>19
First Touch: 20>18 Penalty Taking: 18>19
Decisions: 18>17
Creativity: 20>17