John Terry cleared of Racial Abuse

[ajt09]

Suarez aside, I think the lesson that's been learnt is think before you speak, regardless of the situation. It'll come back to bit you in the *** in the end. Like Rooney, like Drogba and god knows how many other players. It just mystifies me, when there's so many cameras aimed at high profile players, the action being beamed all over the world, cameras zoomed in....they still find a way to f*ck things up for themselves without even trying.

 

[sunilvk7]

he admitted using the word exactly the same as Terry did, but both claimed to use it in a non-racial way, Terry exaggerated Sarcasm and Suarez in a friendly nature.. no proof against either of these claims

Terry also admitted to using the words "Black C*nt"

Whats your point?

You said Evra's words but it was Suarez's words and he failed to justify it by changing his story 3 times.

 

[Joel`]

he admitted using the word exactly the same as Terry did, but both claimed to use it in a non-racial way, Terry exaggerated Sarcasm and Suarez in a friendly nature.. no proof against either of these claims

Context of the situation = highly likely Suarez was not being friendly = guilty on balance of probability.
Prosecution couldn't prove beyond all reasonable doubt that Terry was lying = not guilty.

Although I know little about the Terry case, but I'm assuming something like that.

 

[LFCMarshall]

You said Evra's words but it was Suarez's words and he failed to justify it by changing his story 3 times.

What?? :S

I said both Terry and Suarez admitted to using words that in a different context can be taken as racial, however terry said he said his words in sarcasm, as in to say i didnt call you that

Suarez, said it in a friendly nature to calm down the situation according to him, as Negrito can be used in certain contexts as a friendly term...

whether or not Suarez changed his story, there was no evidence to prove either Evra or Suarez was right, yet the FA charged him

this is why i never agreed with the original decision, and not one person can provide sufficient proof to prove either player is guilty

 

[LFCMarshall]

Context of the situation = highly likely Suarez was not being friendly = guilty on balance of probability.
Prosecution couldn't prove beyond all reasonable doubt that Terry was lying = not guilty.

Although I know little about the Terry case, but I'm assuming something like that.

Thats exactly right, but, this is bullshit. quite simply, it isn't right

key word.. probability, FA almost used guess work, all im saying is it should be fair for each players, and these two cases were not

 

[Joel`]

What?? :S

I said both Terry and Suarez admitted to using words that in a different context can be taken as racial, however terry said he hais his words in sarcasm, as in to say i didnt call you that

Suarez, said it in a friendly nature to calm down the situation according to him, as Negrito can be used in certain contexts as a friendly term...

whether or not Suarez changed his story, there was no evidence to prove either Evra or Suarez was right, yet the FA charged him

this is why i never agreed with the original decision, and not one person can provide sufficient proof to prove either player is guilty

There was evidence against both, time and money wouldn't have been spent prosecuting Terry for the lolz without evidence. The key is that the standard of evidence is different.

 

[sunilvk7]

What?? :S

I said both Terry and Suarez admitted to using words that in a different context can be taken as racial, however terry said he said his words in sarcasm, as in to say i didnt call you that

Suarez, said it in a friendly nature to calm down the situation according to him, as Negrito can be used in certain contexts as a friendly term...

whether or not Suarez changed his story, there was no evidence to prove either Evra or Suarez was right, yet the FA charged him

this is why i never agreed with the original decision, and not one person can provide sufficient proof to prove either player is guilty

Fair enough but the word used was not Negrito. It was mentioned in FA's report that it was "Negro". I'm not an expert on SA languages and won't act as one, there are 100s of different views on the word.

But all I know is Negrito is something you use as friendly term (as mate) but not Negro.

 

[LFCMarshall]

There was evidence against both, time and money wouldn't have been spent prosecuting Terry for the lolz without evidence. The key is that the standard of evidence is different.

there was evidence against both, but not sufficient evidence to prove them being 100% guilty.. there was even more evidence in terms of videos in the Terry case, yet the verdicts were not the same...

again, it is past, but it simply should be fair one way or the other, either punish players on the current FA style, or the Court of law style, would be fair that way

 

[sunilvk7]

Thats exactly right, but, this is bullshit. quite simply, it isn't right

key word.. probability, FA almost used guess work, all im saying is it should be fair for each players, and these two cases were not

But still we haven't heard what FA will be doing. And I agree with the sentiments though, if punished both should be (when FA investigates this).

 

[LFCMarshall]

Fair enough but the word used was not Negrito. It was mentioned in FA's report that it was "Negro". I'm not an expert on SA languages and won't act as one, there are 100s of different views on the word.

But all I know is Negrito is something you use as friendly term (as mate) but not Negro.

Fair enough, im also not a language expert, i just read alot of what the foreign liverpools players put on twitter ETC explaining it was not meant in a racial way,

all im saying is there should be a fair way of deciding this things

 

[Joel`]

Thats exactly right, but, this is bullshit. quite simply, it isn't right

key word.. probability, FA almost used guess work, all im saying is it should be fair for each players, and these two cases were not

No they didn't. It was an independent panel, for a start. Balance of probability simply means more likely than not. It always comes down to probability, so not sure why you think that's the key word. Terry just has to be proven that we're about 99.99% certain he's guilty, whereas Suarez around 95%. To apply arbitrary percentages to it.

 

[LFCMarshall]

No they didn't. It was an independent panel, for a start. Balance of probability simply means more likely than not. It always comes down to probability, so not sure why you think that's the key word. Terry just has to be proven that we're about 99.99% certain he's guilty, whereas Suarez around 95%.

back to the same point, it is not 100% he's guilty, you cannot or should not charge someone when you are not 100% sure or dont have complete evidence suggesting otherwise

Guilty to me, means you are in no doubt what so ever the person done the act in question.. both trials there was inconclusive parts meaning both should be found not guilty.. not on the balance of probability, rubbish.

 

[rephlex]

You know the burden of proof is very different between Court and FA. Comparing the two is pointless

Before any more ill informed posts appear, this is exactly why he wasn't convicted (and why I'm quoting Mike, as it says it succintly). The burden of proof is simply at a different level. Both players admitted using racially abusive language, and the FA will no doubt look at the Terry case, and unlike the Suarez case they now have a benchmark to apply.

 

[Mike.]

back to the same point, it is not 100% he's guilty, you cannot or should not charge someone when you are not 100% sure or dont have complete evidence suggesting otherwise

Guilty to me, means you are in no doubt what so ever the person done the act in question.. both trials there was inconclusive parts meaning both should be found not guilty.. not on the balance of probability, rubbish.

Then you don't understand the legal system at all. Let's be clear this is not a point for Liverpool fans to bang on and complain about Suarez.

 

[LFCMarshall]

Then you don't understand the legal system at all. Let's be clear this is not a point for Liverpool fans to bang on and complain about Suarez.

I understand it, im simply saying there should be a way of judging these situations because both were handled different with probability being involved in one, and proof in the other.. again, that is simply not fair

and i can guarantee, if this had happened at a club others supported, they would be banging on about it just the same

 

[Mike.]

I understand it, im simply saying there should be a way of judging these situations because both were handled different with probability being involved in one, and proof in the other.. again, that is simply not fair

and i can guarantee, if this had happened at a club others supported, they would be banging on about it just the same

if you did understand you would not compare the two at all. Two utterly different systems with different penalties. The criminal court is far more severe hence higher burdens. Frankly I think it's sad that people are talking about Suarez when we should be discussing if there was any racism

 

[Joel`]

I understand it, im simply saying there should be a way of judging these situations because both were handled different with probability being involved in one, and proof in the other.. again, that is simply not fair

and i can guarantee, if this had happened at a club others supported, they would be banging on about it just the same

If you can think of a better system for settling civil cases that have been used for centuries by almost every Western state, I'm sure justice systems around the world can't wait to hear it. Civil courts settle disputes between individuals, for instance if you crash into my car, all you have to do is pay me compensation. You have no criminal proceedings against you which could be much more severe. It would be ridiculous for me to have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt just to get you to compensate me.

 

[Joel`]

And back to the case at hand, this makes the whole clusterfuck over the captaincy and Cappello look even more ridiculous now.

 

[sunilvk7]

tariq panja ‏@tariqpanja

The Football Association says it's "noted the decision in the John Terry case" and will "now seek to conclude its own inquiries".

 

[Alcaraz]

And back to the case at hand, this makes the whole clusterfuck over the captaincy and Cappello look even more ridiculous now.

FA should have either adopted an 'innocent until proven guilty' stance and kept him as captain or just take him out of the squad entirely. They totally messed things up.. as usual