JP Woody's Conte style 3-5-2 (13.3.2)

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JP Woody said:
I wasn't saying anything about the other guy or that tactic. I know that tactic is not the same as this. Was making the point to celt that maybe the reason he's not having much success with this tactic is because he's fiddled with it and changed it.
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I was more responding to Spikester. I should have quoted his post to be clear.
 
I just scored my first bicycle kick goal ever in FM :)

Not relevant to the tactic, just excited!
 
drhay53 said:
With my team, which has won 3 straight EPL and Champions Leagues, I match prep defensive positioning and drop mentality to either control or standard away, even though my hope is to dominate the game. And even against poor opponents. My three tactics for preparation are Woody's tactic with the 3 different mentalities.

I will change between control and standard based on how attacking the opponent seems to play early in the game; if they're attacking me hard I'll drop to standard. If they're not playing very positively I'll play control. If the game gets past the 60th minute and the result isn't what I'm looking for, I'll start walking up to attacking mentality. I never jump 2 mentalities at once. It's almost a guarantee that all of your highlights will disappear.

This year, throw everything you thought you knew about stats and form out the window. Creating 2 CCC's away from home is a brilliant day, even for a top team, in FM13. A 2-0 win away is a very good result. Even against a mid-table team. The way I see FM13; I'm trying to beat up on you if I'm at home. If I'm away from home, I'm trying to survive your initial assault and slowly exert my will on you. If I play a little more cautiously defensively, eventually my quality WILL win out. If I win 1-0 or 2-0 or 2-1, I don't really care that much. The goal is to win.

Your goal in FM13 should not be to create 10 CCC's and win 4-0 away from home. If that's your goal, you will be upset. To win away from home in FM13 (consistently, over the course of a whole season) I definitely believe you have to play less attacking than you would at home.

The whole reason for this is that in the current match engine, there isn't a ton of things to exploit. It's not that easy to build a tactic that concedes no goals while scoring 4 per game. Away from home, what tends to happen is that your team and the opponent are both playing attacking, fairly risky football. If you have the better team, why would you take more risks with the ball, slinging it around at high tempo all over the pitch, when your opponent is playing a high tempo, more pressing style? If you're the better team you're simply wasting possession by playing attacking. If you're an average team then it's even worse, because your team isn't good enough to play attacking football; especially against a team with a mental advantage from playing at home. Playing too attacking away from home, both teams are pressed high into the middle of the pitch and you just exchange possession in non-dangerous areas, and most likely because of the home advantage your opponent will break through.

If you drop a little deeper though, and play just a little more cautiously, suddenly the midfield isn't so crowded and your quality for creating space can come out. Your opponent (as in the players on the pitch) may get frustrated because they're playing at home and not creating chances. Suddenly players are out of position, pushed far forward, and your players have tons of space to play in. This, in my opinion, is why over the course of the season, I have seen more consistent results dropping to a lower mentality away from home.

Have a read through the thread I posted earlier, linking to Loversleaper's tactic thread over at SI forums.

Hope this helps some people, if you're frustrated by seemingly random away results, give it a try; defensive positioning + lower mentality away from home. Don't just do it for one game or 15 minutes and get frustrated. FM13 requires patience; you're trying to be the best team over the course of 8-9 months, not 2 weeks.
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A brilliant post, I encourage you to participate more in the threads
 
Without doubt the most efficient tactic i have used thus far, I have had the opportunity to try various tactics. The only key adjustment i have made is the change of short passing to more direct.

In terms of training i focus on defending.

i have uploaded a few pictures to show my progress.

View attachment 314386View attachment 314388View attachment 314390View attachment 314391View attachment 314392


As you can see my players are dominating the average rating charts.

The more direct style was implemented once i had lost to newcastle in the league cup.

Peter Crouch is a big part of the tactic, he links play and makes many assists.

The transfers made are due to me only offering teams payments over 48months. I would never normally buy so many players in one window.

The team is very young, so i believe the tactic will only get better and better.
 
JP

have you experimented with the more direct passing style or any other tweaks to the tactic?
 
Spikester said:
JP

have you experimented with the more direct passing style or any other tweaks to the tactic?
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No im working on something else at the moment. Used the direct tweak and it works well with tall Target man and fast poacher.
 
JP

Just noticed that its a 460 you are using. Will you be releasing that at all? And if so, does it use wingers? As it would be perfect for my Skakhtar team?
 
Spikester said:
JP

Just noticed that its a 460 you are using. Will you be releasing that at all? And if so, does it use wingers? As it would be perfect for my Skakhtar team?
Click to expand...

No i wont be releasing any more tactics.
 
drhay53 said:
With my team, which has won 3 straight EPL and Champions Leagues, I match prep defensive positioning and drop mentality to either control or standard away, even though my hope is to dominate the game. And even against poor opponents. My three tactics for preparation are Woody's tactic with the 3 different mentalities.

I will change between control and standard based on how attacking the opponent seems to play early in the game; if they're attacking me hard I'll drop to standard. If they're not playing very positively I'll play control. If the game gets past the 60th minute and the result isn't what I'm looking for, I'll start walking up to attacking mentality. I never jump 2 mentalities at once. It's almost a guarantee that all of your highlights will disappear.

This year, throw everything you thought you knew about stats and form out the window. Creating 2 CCC's away from home is a brilliant day, even for a top team, in FM13. A 2-0 win away is a very good result. Even against a mid-table team. The way I see FM13; I'm trying to beat up on you if I'm at home. If I'm away from home, I'm trying to survive your initial assault and slowly exert my will on you. If I play a little more cautiously defensively, eventually my quality WILL win out. If I win 1-0 or 2-0 or 2-1, I don't really care that much. The goal is to win.

Your goal in FM13 should not be to create 10 CCC's and win 4-0 away from home. If that's your goal, you will be upset. To win away from home in FM13 (consistently, over the course of a whole season) I definitely believe you have to play less attacking than you would at home.

The whole reason for this is that in the current match engine, there isn't a ton of things to exploit. It's not that easy to build a tactic that concedes no goals while scoring 4 per game. Away from home, what tends to happen is that your team and the opponent are both playing attacking, fairly risky football. If you have the better team, why would you take more risks with the ball, slinging it around at high tempo all over the pitch, when your opponent is playing a high tempo, more pressing style? If you're the better team you're simply wasting possession by playing attacking. If you're an average team then it's even worse, because your team isn't good enough to play attacking football; especially against a team with a mental advantage from playing at home. Playing too attacking away from home, both teams are pressed high into the middle of the pitch and you just exchange possession in non-dangerous areas, and most likely because of the home advantage your opponent will break through.

If you drop a little deeper though, and play just a little more cautiously, suddenly the midfield isn't so crowded and your quality for creating space can come out. Your opponent (as in the players on the pitch) may get frustrated because they're playing at home and not creating chances. Suddenly players are out of position, pushed far forward, and your players have tons of space to play in. This, in my opinion, is why over the course of the season, I have seen more consistent results dropping to a lower mentality away from home.

Have a read through the thread I posted earlier, linking to Loversleaper's tactic thread over at SI forums.

Hope this helps some people, if you're frustrated by seemingly random away results, give it a try; defensive positioning + lower mentality away from home. Don't just do it for one game or 15 minutes and get frustrated. FM13 requires patience; you're trying to be the best team over the course of 8-9 months, not 2 weeks.
Click to expand...

Very helpful mate - thanks for this.. just reading through the thread now as I'm going to start using this tactic, including the changes you said you made earlier in the thread.

Just a query regarding mentality - do you ALWAYS start with either Standard or Control mentality, regardless of mentality?

Do you make a change to the mentality when you score?

I'm playing Swansea right now, and I started with 'Control' and was 2-0 up at half time. 70 Minutes pass and they've pulled one back, so I drop to 'Standard' - they pull another back... 2-2. So I go back to 'Control' and grab a late winner - 3-2! Is this what you'd normally do?

I'm just trying to figure out what to do with my Newcastle team.

Any pointers you can give would be appreciated, loved reading your input to this already great thread! Thanks!
 
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I have had bad experiences with dropping the mentality to hold a lead. I almost never do it.

I usually watch on extended highlights.... if most of the highlights are from the opposition, and I'm playing control, then I figure I'm probably too high, and drop to standard. If I'm at standard and not creating many chances, but the opposition isn't making any either, I might bump up to control.

But dropping mentality to hold a lead is a sure way to give up that lead.
 
Thanks mate.

So, you normally start Away matches with Control, regardless of who you're playing?
 
****, just when it was starting to work perfectly here, SI updates Football Manager yet again.

Any idea of when you're gonna release a new of version of your 3-5-2 for the new patch?
 
junp31 said:
****, just when it was starting to work perfectly here, SI updates Football Manager yet again.

Any idea of when you're gonna release a new of version of your 3-5-2 for the new patch?
Click to expand...

There was no match engine updates in the new patch.
 
mikedodgson said:
Thanks mate.

So, you normally start Away matches with Control, regardless of who you're playing?
Click to expand...

Actually what I usually do is start with control if I'm strong favorites, and standard if I'm slight favorites or underdogs. Essentially, I use match odds of 2.0 as the cutoff.... less than 2.0 and I consider myself strong favorites (control), greater than 2.0, standard. It's a base to start with, and I watch the highlights and stats to see if I need to change.
 
junp31 said:
****, just when it was starting to work perfectly here, SI updates Football Manager yet again.

Any idea of when you're gonna release a new of version of your 3-5-2 for the new patch?
Click to expand...

dont know if you have actually been reading this thread but.....

1) the update has NO ME changes

2) JP has stated a few posts above that he will not be releasing anymore tactics
 
drhay53 said:
Actually what I usually do is start with control if I'm strong favorites, and standard if I'm slight favorites or underdogs. Essentially, I use match odds of 2.0 as the cutoff.... less than 2.0 and I consider myself strong favorites (control), greater than 2.0, standard. It's a base to start with, and I watch the highlights and stats to see if I need to change.
Click to expand...

thank you very much for your help drhay53. i will try your suggestions including the possession tweaks you posted. however I am confused about your match prep. in one of your posts you said you always use defensive positioning away from home but in the post with screenshots of your manchester united team, you said you always use attacking movement away from home. could you please clarify what match prep you use home and away and could you also please tell me if you use the teamtalk in OP? thank you and JP Woody
 
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