JP Woody's Conte style 3-5-2 (13.3.2)

[drhay53]

thank you very much for your help drhay53. i will try your suggestions including the possession tweaks you posted. however I am confused about your match prep. in one of your posts you said you always use defensive positioning away from home but in the post with screenshots of your manchester united team, you said you always use attacking movement away from home. could you please clarify what match prep you use home and away and could you also please tell me if you use the teamtalk in OP? thank you and JP Woody

I changed my mind in between the two posts. I now use attacking movement for all match prep.

edit: forgot about the teamtalk part. I don't use the teamtalks from the OP. I don't use any teamtalk guide. Usually, I use the teamtalk suggestion of my coach with highest total Determination + motivating + level of discipline. Sometimes, I will ignore him because he won't do aggressive teamtalks, but it's not very often that I do that. Also, sometimes I will ignore him and tell the team they were unlucky. It's all based on the match. If we played very well but the referee gave the other team a soft penalty, I will usually tell them they were unlucky. It's not really their fault the referee was an idiot.

 

[CarTOON]

I changed my mind in between the two posts. I now use attacking movement for all match prep.

edit: forgot about the teamtalk part. I don't use the teamtalks from the OP. I don't use any teamtalk guide. Usually, I use the teamtalk suggestion of my coach with highest total Determination + motivating + level of discipline. Sometimes, I will ignore him because he won't do aggressive teamtalks, but it's not very often that I do that. Also, sometimes I will ignore him and tell the team they were unlucky. It's all based on the match. If we played very well but the referee gave the other team a soft penalty, I will usually tell them they were unlucky. It's not really their fault the referee was an idiot.

I've set all your tweaks on my tactic, and I've inverted it(because my poachers are both very weak on their right foot) and I'm training the tactic with all 3 mentalities using Arsenal. A lot of people have used direct passing, have you tried it? And if you have and do use it, do you use it home or away?



Question to JP - I've started a new Arsenal save without the transfer patch, do you think this squad would work?(Yes, I've made a lot of changes)

GK: Szczesny
CB: Vermaelen, Koscielny, Alderweireld
DM: M'Vila
CM(s) : Cabaye
CM(a) : Cazorla/Wilshere(will probably sell Cazorla next season when Wilshere will become fit or might play Wilshere at CM(s) once he comes out of injury)

RM: Belhanda, Oxlade-Chamberlain

LM: Lulic/Andre Ayew(Dunno who to get, both have good stats for an offensive+defensive LM)

Poacher: Podolski, Rodrigo

Target Man: Giroud, Kweuke.

 

[drhay53]

I haven't used direct passing.... Well I've used a few times, in games where the field is soaked with rain. I don't like it at all, it's wasteful.

IMO direct passing is more suitable if you are managing a team that isn't technical enough to score often through solid build-up play. If you are a very good team, better than almost all of your opponents, then direct passing will most likely cause you to struggle to score, because your team will be wasting possession on risky forward passes with low chance of completion. Shorter passing means they will only pass forward when there is attacking space to be gained from it.

But if you're a team that will be soaking up a bit of pressure, you may want to go more direct as it will attack the out-of-position opponents more quickly. You don't want to give them time to get back into position, if they're better than you.

Looking at your team, I would not suggest direct passing.

 

[drhay53]

One more thing, if you invert the strikers make sure you invert the roles of the central midfielders as well. It's important that the CM_Attack is getting into the space behind the poacher.... if he's coming forward behind the TM they will be trying to take advantage of the same space and will get in each other's way.

 

[CarTOON]

Yeah I did invert the CMs as well since I figured the poacher will be high up the pitch so there will be room to exploit for the CM(a)

 

[NantesFC]

I haven't used direct passing.... Well I've used a few times, in games where the field is soaked with rain. I don't like it at all, it's wasteful.

IMO direct passing is more suitable if you are managing a team that isn't technical enough to score often through solid build-up play. If you are a very good team, better than almost all of your opponents, then direct passing will most likely cause you to struggle to score, because your team will be wasting possession on risky forward passes with low chance of completion. Shorter passing means they will only pass forward when there is attacking space to be gained from it.

But if you're a team that will be soaking up a bit of pressure, you may want to go more direct as it will attack the out-of-position opponents more quickly. You don't want to give them time to get back into position, if they're better than you.

Looking at your team, I would not suggest direct passing.

I was using short passing with Arsenal, I was doing OK but not amazing.
I've tried one game using direct passing, i've immediatly won 4-0 against Everton. Since then, I use only direct passing and my results are so much better.
I think you can use both

 

[ManutdTAW]

u barely create any ccc and the defence leaks way too many in certainly not worth using again.

 

[drhay53]

I was using short passing with Arsenal, I was doing OK but not amazing.
I've tried one game using direct passing, i've immediatly won 4-0 against Everton. Since then, I use only direct passing and my results are so much better.
I think you can use both

Fair enough. It's just not my preference, my team scores much less on direct passing.

 

[Runeaa]

Tested this tactic out, with Juventus. Brought in the best coaches, bought Astori and Poli and played it to about march. I think i lost 2 games in all competitions, conceeded 7 goals in the league so results was quite good. But, i simply got bored. Despite beeing a tactic with Attacking "mentality" we produced few chances, 1-2 CCC pr game, 1-0 wins, many 0-0 draws and i think my best player was Bonucci with 7.42 rating, all players got very low ratings and especially the strikers( mostly played Vucinic and Matri and they where very ineffective ) and all in all, for me, this tactic is boring. Gets results yea, but no fun at all.

I did the "direct passing tweak" aswell to little effect, if any it got even less "attacking"

 

[drhay53]

Tested this tactic out, with Juventus. Brought in the best coaches, bought Astori and Poli and played it to about march. I think i lost 2 games in all competitions, conceeded 7 goals in the league so results was quite good. But, i simply got bored. Despite beeing a tactic with Attacking "mentality" we produced few chances, 1-2 CCC pr game, 1-0 wins, many 0-0 draws and i think my best player was Bonucci with 7.42 rating, all players got very low ratings and especially the strikers( mostly played Vucinic and Matri and they where very ineffective ) and all in all, for me, this tactic is boring. Gets results yea, but no fun at all.

I did the "direct passing tweak" aswell to little effect, if any it got even less "attacking"

Try my tweaks, posted a couple of pages back. I just finished my 5th season with the tactic and averaged 3.5 goals per game over 64 matches.

 

[herne79]

Started a new save as Juventus after the 13.3 update to try things out, and so far very impressed.

I'm using a combination of the original JP attacking tactic plus two other tactics based on drhay's suggestions (ie., one based on standard play, the other on control).

As at the start of December '12, results are as follows:
League - 1st Position, Pld 14 Won 12 Drn 1 Lst 1 For 33 Agn 2 (!)
Champions Cup Group Stage - 1st Position, Pld 5 Won 5 For 17 Agn 1

I did however lose the season curtain raiser against Napoli 2-0 in the Italian Super Cup.

I usually start home matches were I am favourite using the original JP tactics, and away matches / home matches were I am only small favourites or underdog using the control alternative. I've pretty much stopped using the "standard" tactic now and will probably change it to a counter option to help in the Champions Cup knock out rounds.

The only purchase I made at the start of the season was to buy the transfer listed Albiol to help with the centre back rotation. My left wing does need strengthening for better depth - Asamoah is very good (focusing on Crossing for his training) and at present I am using De Ceglie as back up (repositioning his training from wing back to winger).

A couple of things I have noticed:
1) The tactics took along time to become fully fluid, only getting to this position by the end of November, so I urge anyone wanting to try out these tactics to be patient. I guess I could have achieved fully fluid earlier with more intensive training, however I don't like doing this with my teams.

2) Whilst the Control tactic usually provides a good level of possession, I frequently have either less than 50% or just marginally above 50%, even at home against weak teams. Obviously I am still winning matches and scoring goals, however I am a little surprised I don't get more possession. The below match is a good example of this - I slaughtered them 5-1 at home, loads of shots but only 46% possession. I'll probably start a test save now that the tactics are bedded in to see if some tweaks may improve this.

All in all a very good tactic.

View attachment 316151

 

[drhay53]

With the central defenders set to through balls always and mixed passing, and the wingers set to cross often, and the poacher set to run with ball often, the team is not even bothering to try keeping possession. This was the main reason for my tweaks to the tactic. If you want to try to keep possession a bit more, feel free to try them out.

Usually in away games even with my tweaks I am not much above 50% (if above at all). At home I've had some matches with 60% possession but it's not all the time.

 

[JoOSTAR]

With the central defenders set to through balls always and mixed passing, and the wingers set to cross often, and the poacher set to run with ball often, the team is not even bothering to try keeping possession. This was the main reason for my tweaks to the tactic. If you want to try to keep possession a bit more, feel free to try them out.

Usually in away games even with my tweaks I am not much above 50% (if above at all). At home I've had some matches with 60% possession but it's not all the time.

With those tweaks you mean putting mentality on standard/control, right? Or did I miss something?

Thx in advance!

 

[drhay53]

With those tweaks you mean putting mentality on standard/control, right? Or did I miss something?

Thx in advance!

No. I made a few tweaks to the tactic. I'll post them again:

1) All ball-playing-defenders through balls to sometimes
2) Both wingers crossing to sometimes
3) poacher through balls to sometimes
4) poacher and CM-Attack tackling to normal (avoids cards and most importantly injuries).

 

[herne79]

With the central defenders set to through balls always and mixed passing, and the wingers set to cross often, and the poacher set to run with ball often, the team is not even bothering to try keeping possession. This was the main reason for my tweaks to the tactic. If you want to try to keep possession a bit more, feel free to try them out.

Usually in away games even with my tweaks I am not much above 50% (if above at all). At home I've had some matches with 60% possession but it's not all the time.

Yeah I figured my wingers were probably at least partly to blame, especially as the ones I use do not have great crossing attributes. I hadnt thought of the centre backs though, interesting. To be fair though, I'm not overly concerned about the amount of possession. We are winning well and whilst the opposition may enjoy possession it is not in the final third of my half.

One other point of note - my highest rated player (Vidal) who I play in the central holding position, which should be his strongest position, is frequently among my worst performers on the pitch. I haven't figured that out yet and needs a little tinkering. And therein lies the fun

 

[herne79]

With those tweaks you mean putting mentality on standard/control, right? Or did I miss something?

Thx in advance!

Just to slightly elaborate on drhay's reply above if I may - yes he suggested a few tweaks to the original tactic (see above), he also discussed the use of different mentalities at appropriate times. It's very interesting and well worth you flicking back a few pages in this thread to read through.

 

[drhay53]

Yeah I figured my wingers were probably at least partly to blame, especially as the ones I use do not have great crossing attributes. I hadnt thought of the centre backs though, interesting. To be fair though, I'm not overly concerned about the amount of possession. We are winning well and whilst the opposition may enjoy possession it is not in the final third of my half.

One other point of note - my highest rated player (Vidal) who I play in the central holding position, which should be his strongest position, is frequently among my worst performers on the pitch. I haven't figured that out yet and needs a little tinkering. And therein lies the fun

Worst in terms of match ratings? I wouldn't worry about that too much. The most key passes in this tactic for me comes from the CM-Attack. Next most is usually either a striker or the other CM-Support. The job of the DLP is to make the pass before the assist. His pass is the one that puts a more attacking player into space, who usually then makes the assist. The match ratings are never very high, but the distribution of this player is still very, very important.

 

[herne79]

Worst in terms of match ratings? I wouldn't worry about that too much. The most key passes in this tactic for me comes from the CM-Attack. Next most is usually either a striker or the other CM-Support. The job of the DLP is to make the pass before the assist. His pass is the one that puts a more attacking player into space, who usually then makes the assist. The match ratings are never very high, but the distribution of this player is still very, very important.

I'm not concerned, just like to know what is happening and have a tinker

And I probably didn't make myself clear - I have Vidal playing the CM-Support role (what I termed the central holding position above, my bad). Pirlo is my DLP in the DM position, who is excellent. I'm now into Feb '13, and with full fluidity for the last few months the players and results are coming on leaps and bounds - even Vidal has improved.

I'll make a further report at the end of the season.

 

[drhay53]

I'm not concerned, just like to know what is happening and have a tinker

And I probably didn't make myself clear - I have Vidal playing the CM-Support role (what I termed the central holding position above, my bad). Pirlo is my DLP in the DM position, who is excellent. I'm now into Feb '13, and with full fluidity for the last few months the players and results are coming on leaps and bounds - even Vidal has improved.

I'll make a further report at the end of the season.

Yeah the CM-S is also a bit of an "unsung hero". His job is usually to get the ball to either the TM or the CM-Attack (or a winger) and then they do the damage.

I have a player as a backup CM-S who tends to score a ton of goals (way more per 90 minutes than the first choice at the position) and he has the ppm "gets forward often" or whatever it's called. It can be deadly for the CM-S position if he is the right player to do it. I generally prefer not to have it, because I want that player to try to help keep the DLP from getting isolated, but for a backup player it can be fun to see him get ~10 goals per season.

 

[Pezman123]

have u not changed none of the player instructions? or have i not installed it right?