Most Comprehensive Tactic Test in FM-Base History

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3 years have gone playing fm13 off and on - it has been a **** of a ride to be part of, but reality is fm continues to grow and goes on to new consistant heights improving and tweaking and I have made the decision to be part of that I also was a part of just before the fm13 threads started to crash. So here I am again saying hi to you guys once more and I'm looking forward to do some testing for you guys.

Cheers
 
The new test database

Everything is set in the new database, so we can start testing again now :)

This time with over five times the accuracy due to the number of matches, two test teams and further tweaks! The league has 46 teams, but is divided into two groups, with one test team in each. Both the groups are equally difficult, and the two test teams have different CA, one team has (real) players with 120 CA (5800 rep), while the other team has (real) players with 145 CA (7000 rep). None of the test teams are top teams. I will say that not one single tactic is going to be able to win the league with either of the teams, and a lot of tactics we test will probably end up in relegation position. It's a warmachine of a test, absolutely shredding tactics that aren't good enough for underdogs/below-mid-table-teams.
 
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I am currently testing the Date tactic and my 442 v2. Will be a close battle I think, but from the looks of it so far, my 442 v2 has the upper edge. Will post results when I'm done testing both.

Edit: I may have spoken too early :) It will be a REALLY close battle I think...
 
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Mr Langvatn said:
Everything is set in the new database, so we can start testing again now :)

This time with over five times the accuracy due to the number of matches, two test teams and further tweaks! The league has 46 teams, but is divided into two groups, with one test team in each. Both the groups are equally difficult, and the two test teams have different CA, one team has (real) players with 120 CA (5800 rep), while the other team has (real) players with 145 CA (7000 rep). None of the test teams are top teams. I will say that not one single tactic is going to be able to win the league with either of the teams, and a lot of tactics we test will probably end up in relegation position. It's a warmachine of a test, absolutely shredding tactics that aren't good enough for underdogs/below-mid-table-teams.
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IMO, it would be even better if the test could include underdog team who play with very defensive mentality and formation. If we look at an actual league more than half of the team are weak team who tend to play defensive, if you guys play Italy league this is even more obvious.

From my testing experience with TTF and Will's tactic testing save. I found that if I tweak a tactic like date442 or mid sommer into 4-1-4-1 with an added DM I gets better result in the test, I tried this after dimartino tweaked mid sommer into 4-4-1-1 and had better test result . But when I actually play this tweaked 4-1-4-1 in the actual league it does not perform better than the original tactic because it has problem creating chances against very defensive packed team.
 
Mr Langvatn said:
I am currently testing the Date tactic and my 442 v2. Will be a close battle I think, but from the looks of it so far, my 442 v2 has the upper edge. Will post results when I'm done testing both.

Edit: I may have spoken too early :) It will be a REALLY close battle I think...
Click to expand...

To be fair mate, if you include your own tactic in the test result you should have your other tester to test it, maybe you would just manage and oversea the whole testing.
 
dginola said:
To be fair mate, if you include your own tactic in the test result you should have your other tester to test it, maybe you would just manage and oversea the whole testing.
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As you can see from our previous tests, I don't include my own tactics in the list. And even if I did wish to include my own tactics in the list, I have gained enough credibility over the years that that wouldn't be a problem either. In addition, the savegame has only been saved one time, so it would be easy to prove it as well :)

Nevertheless, the point of this test isn't to make my own tactics more visible, as I don't need any help with that. We want to give other people in the community a fair test of their tactics, so that the tactician community can keep growing :)
 
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dginola said:
IMO, it would be even better if the test could include underdog team who play with very defensive mentality and formation. If we look at an actual league more than half of the team are weak team who tend to play defensive, if you guys play Italy league this is even more obvious.

From my testing experience with TTF and Will's tactic testing save. I found that if I tweak a tactic like date442 or mid sommer into 4-1-4-1 with an added DM I gets better result in the test, I tried this after dimartino tweaked mid sommer into 4-4-1-1 and had better test result . But when I actually play this tweaked 4-1-4-1 in the actual league it does not perform better than the original tactic because it has problem creating chances against very defensive packed team.
Click to expand...

First of all, none of those test leagues have anywhere near the accuracy of our test. If you want to discuss why, let me know :) Second of all, both groups in our new test have a wide variety of reputation, ranging from under 6000 to over 9000. The managers of a lower rep team will always play defensive when up against a high rep team. Our test is made to resemble an actual league on that regard, this is why we also use real players (although tweaked hidden attributes such as consistency for example, for the whole league).
 
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Mr Langvatn said:
Second of all, both groups in our new test have a wide variety of reputation, ranging from under 6000 to over 9000. The managers of a lower rep team will always play defensive when up against a high rep team. Our test is made to resemble an actual league on that regard, this is why we also use real players (although tweaked hidden attributes such as consistency for example, for the whole league).
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Mr Langvatn, you can read "CONFIGURATION OF THE TESTING LEAGUE" section in TotalFootballFan9's guide about tactic testing and you'll find out that it's possible to make AI teams always use a defensive approach or an attacking approach against you regardless of anything so this way you can see how tactics work when you use them with underdog clubs and when you use them with favorite clubs.

Also, in TotalFootballFan9's testing league AI manager can't be fired until the end of testing and what's about your testing league? :)

Here's the guide - http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/shar...ate-best-tactics-testing-system-possible.html
 
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Meffisto said:
Mr Langvatn, you can read "CONFIGURATION OF THE TESTING LEAGUE" section in TotalFootballFan9's guide about tactic testing and you'll find out that it's possible to make AI teams always use a defensive approach or an attacking approach against you regardless of anything so this way you can see how tactics work when you use them with underdog clubs and when you use them with favorite clubs.

Also, in TotalFootballFan9's testing league AI manager can't be fired until the end of testing and what's about your? :)

Here's the guide - http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/shar...ate-best-tactics-testing-system-possible.html
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I respect TFF as a tactician, and he makes good tactics every year, but when it comes to tactic testing accuracy, Me and the test team have far more experience than him (I think every single member of the test team except maybe Jesseh has more experience than TFF).

We make our choices, he makes his. We disagree with much of how he sets up his database, and we believe that our arguments are backed up by the community, when some are saying that there is a point deviation of up to 0,4 per match. This is not an acceptable number, and frankly makes any test in such an environment a waste of time. I don't say this to disrespect TFF, as I highly respect him as a tactician.

As an example, I will comment on TFF's words about tactic testing:

TFF: "The second, if you are going to catch any small tweaks like changing "D-line" by one notch or adding "Dribble More/Shot More Often" PIs by such testing then I strongly recommend you that you leave this idea because this game is too random that you can catch such small tweaks by this kind of testing but it can tell you do you move in the right direction or not."

I guess if you use TFF's testing database, then you should follow his recommendations, due to the inaccuracy of his database. But in our test, we have the accuracy to test such changes. And, to call changing the D-line a small tweak is beyond me.

Another example is that TFF has actually REMOVED the suspension for red and yellow cards. This makes tactics that have "tackle harder" on all the players perform better throughout a season (All his own tactics have this instruction on all players).

I can go on forever about things I disagree with...

But, in short, we won't be following TFF's guide on how to test tactics :) Sorry :)
 
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Mr Langvatn said:
First of all, none of those test leagues have anywhere near the accuracy of our test. If you want to discuss why, let me know :) Second of all, both groups in our new test have a wide variety of reputation, ranging from under 6000 to over 9000. The managers of a lower rep team will always play defensive when up against a high rep team. Our test is made to resemble an actual league on that regard, this is why we also use real players (although tweaked hidden attributes such as consistency for example, for the whole league).
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It's all good mate, just a suggestion from my observation with other test save.
 
To keep any AI manager from getting fired in the test league, you can just set the hidden attribute "patience" to 20 on all chairmen and managing directors in the league.

Edit: Nvm, I thought this was the trick that did it, but no managers got fired in our test league before either... I just checked an older savegame without this tweak...
 
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Mr Langvatn said:
To keep any AI manager from getting fired in the test league, you can just set the hidden attribute "patience" to 20 on all chairmen and managing directors in the league.
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It won't help... they still will be getting fired

Mr Langvatn said:
but no managers got fired in our test league before either
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that's a lie because it's inevitably that someone of the AI managers in your league gets fired during testing
 
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Here are screenshots from several different finished tests... Do you want more proof? If so, I can load 50 other savegames that shows the same..

And, don't call me a liar..
 
Mr Langvatn said:
Here are screenshots from several different finished tests... Do you want more proof? If so, I can load 50 other savegames that shows the same..
Click to expand...

Your screenshots don't show any Manager Movement during the season because you made them at June 12 2016.
 
TMHaraldsen said:
Figaro the troll is back....ignore him, Lang...
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Pfff... I just tried to help and point out some weaknesses in your testing league... if you don't need any help then don't worry I won't bother you again...

I see that you guys think that you know everything but that's not true...

have a nice day...
 
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