Pep Guardiola will be the Bayerm Munich manager from this summer
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Be fair Mike, nobody expected Porto to do anything in that Champions League. I think you might just be making them out to be better than what they actually were because they knocked Man Utd out
Be fair Mike, nobody expected Porto to do anything in that Champions League. I think you might just be making them out to be better than what they actually were because they knocked Man Utd out
Dont get me started on that disallowed goal"!
They werent favourites for sure. But we are not talking about a side like Apoel. They were still a very good side. A very good side that should have been knocked out by us, but still a very good side.
Just to show the players they had: FC Porto: Vitor Baia, Paulo Ferreira, Jorge Costa (Pedro Emanuel 36), Ricardo Carvalho, Nuno Valente, Alenitchev (Ricardo Fernandes 80), Costinha, Maniche, Deco, Carlos Alberto (Jankauskas 61), McCarthy. Subs Not Used: Nuno, Ricardo Costa, Bosingwa, Bruno Moraes. Booked: Costinha, Maniche, McCarthy. Goals: Costinha 90.
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None of those players were household names until that season with Mourinho. He had also won the UEFA cup with them the season before. I think the point is that only Mourinho could have probably achieved those successes with Porto, i think many managers could of achieved similar success with that Barca team as what Guardiola did.
To be fair United where the only 'big' club knocked out by Porto in that competition, which is i never really saw it as the miracle people make it out to be. Great achievement - absolutely, but very lucky with the ladder more then anything else.
Just because some might not have heard of them here, doesnt make them any less of a player, they were very good players. The success made them household names, but they were already very good players. And while what he did was great, the fact is with all the quality Barca have had over the years, no one did what Pep did. Everyone forgets that neither Xavi or Iniesita were actually playing particularly well. Messi was going places but nothing like what he has become. The club wasnt actually a particularly happy place.
Portos run at the time was United, Lyon, Deportivo, Monaco. Tough but not exactly insurmountable
I would have considered Lyon a very strong side at the time to be fair, and Depor were no slouches
Oh i'm not saying the opponents were bad, its just that Porto actually played against teams with similar resources in 1/4, 1/2 and in the final, so it can hardly be considered an overachievement.
Meanwhile look who else was in the bracket: the Galacticos, Wenger's unbeatable Arsenal, the insane Milan side from early Ancelotti's era, Juve with Buffon, Nedved, Del Piero, Trezeguet, Thuram. All these sides were knocked out by somebody else.
It's so easy to look back and say "wow, what a great side" without taking into account the impact Mourinho had. Players like Maniche, Valente, Ferreira, Costinha, Deco et al ranged from complete nobodies to average players at average clubs to fairly decent players at relatively big clubs. Mourinho turned all of them into brilliant players. Nuno Valente and Paulo Ferreira are both only alright full-backs, even after they left Porto, but during Mourinho's reign they were marauding down the flanks like nobody's business. My point is, Mourinho didn't only find good players, he made average players play far beyond their level.
Eh? No, that's not right at all. They were relative nobodies in Portugal as well: Valente was plucked from obscurity by Jose, and Deco couldn't even get into the Benfica squad, let alone their first team. Likewise, Maniche was turned from a pretty meh winger into an exceptionally solid midfielder. Jose wasn't just rebranding players, he was making them. In fact, much like what Pep did to Barca, as you yourself just mentioned: Jose made players fulfil their potential. They wouldn't have been the players they were without him, and indeed when they left they often weren't. They weren't good players before Jose, and they were after, it really is simple as that.
Every club they faced deserved to be there. Deportivo beat Juve twice over two legs, and then hammered Milan 4-0 at the Riazor to cap a remarkable comeback. Monaco recovered from a 4-2 beating at Madrid to win 3-1 in the second leg, and then beat Chelsea (who themselves had put out the vaunted Arsenal side) comfortably. To say that Porto had an 'easy run' is disrespectful to the teams they beat, as well as Porto themselves. If the sides that were out of the tournament were so good, surely that speaks volumes about the sides that beat them, and then about Porto themselves?
Valeron :wub: Oh how Depor have fallen :'(
You really are a fruit loop aren’t you? Why wouldn’t he want to learn his trade at Barcelona? I can’t think of anywhere better to serve an apprenticeship, certainly paid dividends in the end too.
Alot of experienced managers may well have done better? 24 trophies in four years not enough for you? Two champions leagues? Watching them completely destroy the best teams in Europe on more than one occasion? Honestly, do me a favour and go to the doctor and get yourself checked out, it’s not normal to **** out of your mouth the way you are.
When Pep took over Barca were in a bit of a state. Xavi and Iniesta weren’t influencing games the way they do now, Messi was a talent but nowhere near the player he is now and the Barca team of old didn’t have anywhere near the same level of fitness or ability to press in the manor they do now.
Sir Alex Ferguson’s achievements at St Mirren and Aberdeen are completely out of context.
1. He managed both in the late 70’s, completely different era. Nothing like the money ball of football today.
2. Taking nothing away from his success at Aberdeen but at the time they were one of the major forces in Scottish football, when Scottish football was in fact decent and nothing like the Old Firm Monopoly of the last 20+ years.
What constitutes being classed as a great manager then?
Jankauskas :wub:
Why the **** would anyone want to take the Chelsea job for example when you can take charge of a stable club like Bayern, who also happen to share a very similar vision/ideology as your own? The move makes perfect sense to me.
But it was an easy run compared to what it could have been with less lucky bracket. The point is, contrary to popular belief, Mourinho did not actually win CL as heavy underdog scoring stunning victories vs. clubs much bigger then his. The teams Porto played were good but hardly unmovable.
Well for me there are different criteria. Achieving something amazing with something average is one, Clough at Forest for example, or Ferguson at Aberdeen. Creating a philosophy at a club that lasts decades is another, Rinus Michels Ajax, Bill Shankly Liverpool, Matt Busby Man Utd. Also i think creating multiple championship winning teams and rebuilding multiple championship winning teams would also constitute a great manager, Ferguson again and Ottmar Hitzfeld another.
I don't share your opinion about Guardiola, i think he was in the right place at the right time. No way were Barca in a state when he took over, the style of play was already in place from schoolboy to first team and the likes of Iniesta were already breaking through. I think joining the biggest team in Germany and one of the biggest teams in the world is playing it safe. Its all Just my opinion though, i might well be proved wrong.
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Ludwig1984
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Why Premier League? Bundesliga is much more competition. In three years time he will be the replacement of retiring manager alex fergouson...and klopp will be bayern manager then. live is beautiful
Why Premier League? Bundesliga is much more competition. In three years time he will be the replacement of retiring manager alex fergouson...and klopp will be bayern manager then. live is beautiful
No it's not. They're as competitive as the other, as is La Liga. As an example the PL anyone can beat anybody else from the bottom to the top-there is no certainty on anyone beating the other team anymore. Even in the cups you can get League 1 teams knocking out an EPL team-only a fool would disregard another team before kickoff. But that's just one example
For me, Guardiola took a Barcelona team that was 7/10 to 10/10 in a very short span of time which is an astounding achievement in itself but to put him in the same bracket as managers such as SAF and Mourinho who have achieved far more with lesser teams is still unfair at this point in my opinion.
But in the premier league a newly promoted team can't keep a top 5 position all season.(Mainz,frankfurt) And where the league winners are relaxation candidates after 2 or 3 seasons(Wolfsburg, Stuttgart)