Post Your Frustations Thread

[Biggsy1103]

That's probably very realistic when it comes to Scotland

 

[Montanaro]

The youth intake is useless, im playing as Celtic the biggest club in scotland, ive upgraded the facilities to be best possible and hired the best staff i could possibly have and after not getting any good players from my youth intake i decided to test it by reloading previous day save. After 50 tries the best player i managed to get was 2.5 star potential. Most of the guys are half a star potential, im gonna have to buy every **** player to my squad because im not getting any players that i could even keep as backup

are all youth facilities/recruitment at max?

If so, who is your best starting 11 player? If you've bought great players, any regen you produce or buy will be low star because team quality increased

 

[AayushCFC]

The youth intake is useless, im playing as Celtic the biggest club in scotland, ive upgraded the facilities to be best possible and hired the best staff i could possibly have and after not getting any good players from my youth intake i decided to test it by reloading previous day save. After 50 tries the best player i managed to get was 2.5 star potential. Most of the guys are half a star potential, im gonna have to buy every **** player to my squad because im not getting any players that i could even keep as backup

After 50 tries? ****. I usually get one decent 3/3.5 star player in my youth intake at Chelsea (With excellent facilities, and top recruitment). I just steal most of the top regens from other clubs before they sign a pre-contract for compensation, lol.

 

[laiziras]

are all youth facilities/recruitment at max?

If so, who is your best starting 11 player? If you've bought great players, any regen you produce or buy will be low star because team quality increased

I have superb youth facilities, i cant ask for more money to youth recruitment so i guess its at max.
I have one 4 star player rest are 3 stars or lower and one 3,5 star player.
They are just bad youth with stats below 10 except maybe 1-3 stats that are little higher like 12-15

 

[jamesyboyhail]

mike i dont know how you can defend this game so much,i love football manager but you have to be honest this game is a mess.i have tried all the best tactics on here and soon as i lose 1 game the tactic is hopeless.match engine is so poor i cant even watch,its the same every game you know whats going to happen.winger sprints to the byeline doest cross just passes it back.midfielders cant score or get a shot on target,they just hit the opposition player.i have no doubt si will make it playable but every year we buy the game and have to wait on it to get fixed,does no one actually sit done and test this game.

 

[jamesyboyhail]

fogot to add.i spend more time on this forum instead of playing the game i payed for.

 

[Mike.]

mike i dont know how you can defend this game so much,i love football manager but you have to be honest this game is a mess.i have tried all the best tactics on here and soon as i lose 1 game the tactic is hopeless.match engine is so poor i cant even watch,its the same every game you know whats going to happen.winger sprints to the byeline doest cross just passes it back.midfielders cant score or get a shot on target,they just hit the opposition player.i have no doubt si will make it playable but every year we buy the game and have to wait on it to get fixed,does no one actually sit done and test this game.

Because absolutely none of what i said is defending. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

The bold is where you are going wrong first and foremost. SI could patch it a million times, its not going to solve the issues you are having. I'd start by opening a thread in the tactics section and getting help from thebetterhalf.

The fact you think I'm defending is pretty much the problem with the mentality of a lot of people who play the game. I actually only want people to enjoy the game, and help them get around problems. Instead we get abuse and told we've defending, even though time and again we're proven to be right. It's no skin off my nose if you listen to me or not, but dont expect any update to magically cure all your ills.

 

[Mike.]

fogot to add.i spend more time on this forum instead of playing the game i payed for.

start by spending time in the right part of the forum. Not bouncing from "best tactic to best tactic"

 

[AayushCFC]

You should be playing tactics according to your players' abilities. How is your team going to perform good in possession tactics when your player have bad ball control? etc. I'm enjoying the game, a few small bugs here and there do irritate at times but it's all about figuring out different tactics against different oppositions, for me. I haven't yet played more than two games in a row with single tactic.

 

[AayushCFC]

You should be playing tactics according to your players' abilities. How is your team going to perform good in possession tactics when your player have bad ball control? etc. I'm enjoying the game, a few small bugs here and there do irritate at times but it's all about figuring out different tactics against different oppositions, for me. I haven't yet played more than two games in a row with single tactic.

View attachment 453248

I take back my comment, lol. Opposition's GKs have been turning into superman against me in recent games, would've been fine if it were once or twice, it's happened in last 7 matches that opposition's GK has 8+ rating against me, even the worst ones. And it's not like my team is performing badly, I'm leading the league with only 2 loses. Their GK saved some shots that I could NOT believe and Cech basically let the ball past him 4 times just touching his body, he didn't move at all. My defenders basically didn't do anything, they played through my defense like I was a league 2 team.

Now I know I'll stop playing this game for a couple of days.

 

[Prequel]

Dear Mike,

Do you know why many people are sticking to one single approach and play season(s) with that? Because this is a game that is not-as-deep-as-it-looks and because there have been and, from the looks of things, for a long, long time will be at least one tactics that is magical. This proves that the game relies only on a single magical combination, and certain situations can be overcame with select changes; not with logical, realistic ones. If there wasn't such thing, you could believe that your actions could (fully) affect your outcome. But if there is such a thing, then, by ignoring this fact and going through every single match with care is only fooling yourself.

I'm one of those who believe matches in real life can be won by being proactive during matches and watching out everything that happens. For many instances, I try to analyze a real game and try to think solutions. But, unfortunately this game doesn't let that. When I try to make tactical changes during match, I don't know how will it react, the result can be highly changing. Before I tried 20+ tactics made by FM-Base users, I used my own. In one of matches, I managed to come back from a 2-0 in City's stadium, which have always been a nightmare to me. But this hadn't made me happy, because until my changes, the tactics I made and the play we displayed were completely irrelevant. And I believe, that, changes I made worked not because they were good moves but worked because they were somehow unexpected and lucky. I know that because both how I succeed and fail are always irrelevent to what's displayed.

You may criticize FM players as much as you want, but in reality, many of those players aren't really lazy or that poor players. It's simply the way you believe the game should be played isn't really possible to be played because the game itself isn't letting that.

I want the match engine to act accordingly to the way I set my tactics, I don't want it to make my tactics act perfectly but I want some relevency. If I see some similarities between what I do and what happens, I can try and find problems, but without that I'm just shooting blind. And I don't want there to be some magical combination that completely overrides match engine. I want the match engine to have some sense of fuzzy logic (just like the new tactics system) that doesn't completely change the play displayed between two very similar tactics. These are the things I want. If all of this happened, I would be more than happy to adapt my tactics in every single match, be proactive, use shouts, change between formations, mentality, sometimes do all of these drastically, sometimes don't fix what's not broken, and some more. The reason I play this game is because I want to do the things I can't do when I'm watching a real game of my favorite team. My intention was never to set one single tactic and play with it for ten years. In reality, the fun of this sports is the reactions made during a match. How can a football fan enjoy this game without it?

Please, all of the things you (all) believe is because the game is complex, you think it's working but it's complex in a bad way, so when you defend the game, you're being deceived by it's complexity. Self doubt isn't always a good thing. I'm sure many people who defends this game have had failures many times (I never get angry to game when I fail because of my lackings, that gives me motivation) just before going hands on with the game, think how you failed and why you had to fail that way. If answers you give are logical, then I have nothing to say. But if not, then you can't simply ignore that and think that the game is working.

You may also think that even something that isn't exactly working can still partially work and can still be used, but that is also an illusion. You are completely giving yourself into hands of luck. There is no way to play this game without substantially relying on 'luck'. The instability this game shows is like a chemical reaction. You can't know when it's going to explode and you can't know how severe it will explode and you can't know how often it will explode.

 

[GodCubed]

Dear Mike,

Do you know why many people are sticking to one single approach and play season(s) with that? Because this is a game that is not-as-deep-as-it-looks and because there have been and, from the looks of things, for a long, long time will be at least one tactics that is magical. This proves that the game relies only on a single magical combination, and certain situations can be overcame with select changes; not with logical, realistic ones. If there wasn't such thing, you could believe that your actions could (fully) affect your outcome. But if there is such a thing, then, by ignoring this fact and going through every single match with care is only fooling yourself.

Firstly, let us get this out of the way. There has been no 'magical' automatic win tactic since Diablo. The Grid tactic of FM12 was the closest one since then. There have been some good tactics, some great tactics, but none that came as close to properly guaranteeing you a victory as the Grid did, and that's because the Grid exploited big flaws in the FM12 match engine, flaws that no longer exist in this game. It is possible there's another one waiting to be made, but with the advances made in the match engine - the kind of stuff nobody notices before they **** on it - it's so much more difficult to pin down the exact things that allow a tactic to be an exploit.

I'm one of those who believe matches in real life can be won by being proactive during matches and watching out everything that happens. For many instances, I try to analyze a real game and try to think solutions. But, unfortunately this game doesn't let that. When I try to make tactical changes during match, I don't know how will it react, the result can be highly changing. Before I tried 20+ tactics made by FM-Base users, I used my own. In one of matches, I managed to come back from a 2-0 in City's stadium, which have always been a nightmare to me. But this hadn't made me happy, because until my changes, the tactics I made and the play we displayed were completely irrelevant. And I believe, that, changes I made worked not because they were good moves but worked because they were somehow unexpected and lucky. I know that because both how I succeed and fail are always irrelevent to what's displayed.

These are pretty big but relatively common claims, the usual kind of 'game is fixed' fare that is found across all FM boards. As per usual, big claims require big evidence, and as of yet nobody has come up with any kind of evidence for the game being fixed at all. None. Not you, not anyone. Moreover, trying to talk to Mike about your anecdotal evidence of your changes being irrelevant is totally pointless, because both he and I always attempt to influence games in the changes we make. It's not hard, and it's not long-winded. A CM dropped to DM can make a whole world of difference, even if it's imperceptible since it results in the opposition failing to score rather than scoring.

You may criticize FM players as much as you want, but in reality, many of those players aren't really lazy or that poor players. It's simply the way you believe the game should be played isn't really possible to be played because the game itself isn't letting that.

Many FM players really are that lazy or poor. Really.

The thing with this is, nobody here is talking about getting impossible results in the game or pushing it to unrealistic limits. We're all well aware of the limitations, and they're actually pretty big boundaries. Saying "oh it's not possible to play that way" is simply bullshit, because he DOES play that way and it gets him results. I do something similar, though I do it with less detail and a different focus.

I want the match engine to act accordingly to the way I set my tactics, I don't want it to make my tactics act perfectly but I want some relevency. If I see some similarities between what I do and what happens, I can try and find problems, but without that I'm just shooting blind. And I don't want there to be some magical combination that completely overrides match engine. I want the match engine to have some sense of fuzzy logic (just like the new tactics system) that doesn't completely change the play displayed between two very similar tactics. These are the things I want. If all of this happened, I would be more than happy to adapt my tactics in every single match, be proactive, use shouts, change between formations, mentality, sometimes do all of these drastically, sometimes don't fix what's not broken, and some more. The reason I play this game is because I want to do the things I can't do when I'm watching a real game of my favorite team. My intention was never to set one single tactic and play with it for ten years. In reality, the fun of this sports is the reactions made during a match. How can a football fan enjoy this game without it?

You don't want a magical combination that overrides the match engine. I'll ask again: what is it? Because none of us know, so please, enlighten us. The most broken thing in the match engine are the full backs, and frankly they're entirely workable and not that broken at all in comparison to previous FMs.

You're equating your experience with the match engine to the match engine itself. It just simply isn't anything like what you're describing. It can and does affect the game when you make changes, but it doesn't effect it massively if the two tactics are as similar as you say. There's a myriad of other factors that could make two similar tactics perform differently - AI reaction, player suitability, PPMs to name but three - so it's best to stop reacting like making minor changes to a tactic and changing the style of play completely is impossible. ****, Barca under Pep made two seasons' worth of tweaks and ended up playing and entirely different formation, if not style of play.

Please, all of the things you (all) believe is because the game is complex, you think it's working but it's complex in a bad way, so when you defend the game, you're being deceived by it's complexity. Self doubt isn't always a good thing. I'm sure many people who defends this game have had failures many times (I never get angry to game when I fail because of my lackings, that gives me motivation) just before going hands on with the game, think how you failed and why you had to fail that way. If answers you give are logical, then I have nothing to say. But if not, then you can't simply ignore that and think that the game is working.

Even if the answers aren't logical, it's sometimes impossible to know why you're failing. Like I've said many times in this thread, the major shortcoming with FM now is the feedback. I can fail and not know why. This isn't because of some conspiracy theory, mind, it's just because it's difficult to do with this kind of game. There's no way of communicating to the player that his wholesale transfer changes in the winter window has unbalanced and unsettled the team without breaking the fourth wall entirely. And that's fine.

You may also think that even something that isn't exactly working can still partially work and can still be used, but that is also an illusion. You are completely giving yourself into hands of luck. There is no way to play this game without substantially relying on 'luck'. The instability this game shows is like a chemical reaction. You can't know when it's going to explode and you can't know how severe it will explode and you can't know how often it will explode.

You're not, though. Because some players are really ****** good, and they can explain why they are. You're saying the likes of SFraser are just the luckiest FM playing people on the planet? Even though they show evidence of what they're doing and the effects of doing so? Contrast that to the people who are doing badly at the game. Are they just horribly unlucky, even though you can see exactly what logical fallacies they're going through whilst playing? I've seen someone play a very fluid, direct, very slow tempo tactic with four central playmakers, no wide men, and defensive full backs. Predictably, they were failing, and I'd be willing to bet that 95+% of people who do the same will come up with similar results. Because that's how the game works: it follows logic.

There's no two ways about it. You can get the absolute maximum luck out of the game, and you'll still likely lose if you don't think about what you're doing and affect positive changes to how you're playing.



EDIT: I noticed in one of your earlier posts that you said it is 'impossible to have a great season'. It just so happened I had the 'post your successes' thread open in another tab. Guess what? It totally is possible.

 

[jamesyboyhail]

sorry mike but i only tried the best tactics to see if it was my 3 tactics that i had made that were the problem,but the point i am making is the tactics dont matter as players dont do what you want them to do.ie if i tell my wingers to cross from deep i want them to cross from deep.if i tell my striker to come deep i want him to come deep.i am wasting my time spending hrs on tactics for my players not to do anything that my tactics tell them.

 

[Prequel]

@GodCubed

But I already have evidence. I tried two different possession based 433s with almost the same instructions, one didn't even have any possession, played nothing like a 433 while the other had 65% possession etc. Both of those tactics were made by users with some popularity on the forums.

I also made myself a possession based tactics and all I had was 40% possession against relegation teams. I guess I'm really, really, REALLY bad... I'm not even remotely claiming I'm a genius tactician on FM (never created a tactics thread, for example. never had the patience to play a save just to test tactics) but I learned many things about possession play since it's my obsession for at least the last 3-4 FM's. I know what combination of instrucions work, I know how you should shape your play and attack, set your defensive line etc. But all the attempts I made turned out incredibly irrelevent. I'm not talking about success here, I simply don't see any resemblence in the field what I'm trying to do on tactics. This game encourages you to use tailor-made tactics. Tactics shouldn't even have such importance, up until this year you could tweak bars and find the right spot. Now we don't have that but we still have the same result, no, the worse, because you can't counter the match engine anymore because you can't control everything with the tactics unlike the match engine and AI. I also tried the grid tactics you're talking about for couple times and it was a disaster for me.

I never said there is a conspiracy, I just think that the engine is so incredibly poor that it makes every match look like that Lithuanian league someone shared some time ago.

If you really believe that there haven't been any magical tactics since Diablo then you surely haven't tried many tactics. Because after (also) testing of tens of tactics, I managed to find myself a magical tactic in FM 13. It's called "4-2-3-1 Boo Ya!", after two 80 pts two seasons with much stronger squads on different tactics, I managed to gather 96 points with this one in EPL with a squad with average age of 21! Don't know about you but this is almost equal to winning all 38 matches in my book. If I had a team with an average age of 25 or something, I wouldn't probably lose a single match for half a decade. If this isn't enough, then let me say that this tactic played a quick tempo possession play, and I had some serious possession on some serious amount of matches. I'm not taking credit here, merely stating that there are magical tactics. Also, I never directly said anything about a tactic that can win you every single match. I'm only talking about that when you use it it simply magically and drastically changes your outcome, most likely (let's say 80%+) let you succeed no matter how good the opponent is. This isn't possible in real life. A relegation team don't magically in an instant come up with a tactic that saves them or a mid table team don't get the cup just because of a tactic. It's always about the players and situations. If you play strategic, you can win, but this isn't the same as having an infinite amount of power. Greece won the Euro on 2004 because nobody expected such a mentality and they're opponents weren't also sufficiently good to counter that. But in the next tournament Greece simply evaporated. Or Gala in 2000 won UEFA Cup and Super Cup not because of a magical tactic but because of a suprisingly good set of eleven with just the right play. Following, they lost all the players and for a long, long time never won a thing. Or Mourinho managed to defend Barca with 10 men, but that didn't stop him from being destroyed while managing a better team by a 5-0 result. All of these examples are about the situation and players. I will more than welcome a match engine that shows me my opponent is defending against me with everything they got, but all I see is my wasted chances, placed shots onto keeper's laps like it's a training. The key isn't a magical tactic either anyway. It's about finding needed random (ridiculous) changes that let's you win, no matter what your move is. Last year I also complained about the match engine and thought it was one of the worsts except previous year, but the year we're playing now is a whole another level. If you compare current one's instability to the 13's, I'd say there is at least a 100x difference.

I have every evidence about the things I'm claming, and even if I didn't I can easily gather you some without any try by simply launching my game and playing my save regularly. I don't even watch the extended view or full match because I fear what they might show me. I can see these by only looking at key moments. If I watched extended view or full match as I did in the past, I can gather so much evidence that you won't be able to move.

I know this won't be enough and you will surely find something to say but since I don't want to play this game for another second now, here you go from some of my older screenshots:

View attachment 453172View attachment 453171View attachment 453170

1) I guess you'll agree because of "fullbacks situation" (yes, the only problem with the game(!))
2) They Mourinho-d me, right?
3) And this should be... what? One of those godly countering Liechtenstein-y opponents?

Sorry, this is the end line where I can take you seriously anymore. I simply don't have the patience to show conspicuities of this game, and you didn't make it easier anyway. You can let yourself to be deceived by the game's (chaotic) complexity as much as you want, but I believe this time more than a minority knows how ridiculous the game is. I know, sometimes number means nothing, but right now it's the only thing I care about and hope that this affects SI seriously so they can see how immensely they ****** up.

 

[Mike.]

See, prequel's post is the kind of nonsense I mean, Long, articulated, and entirely wrong. All he does is take a long winded way of saying I'm defending and that the game isnt as complex. In fact it is, we've done this to death on the SI forums.

The game has never never relied on a single magical combination, though some have popped up through inherent flaws (such as diablo). For someone to believe that shows just how little they understand the concept of the game. That initself is not a bad thing. But trying to argue from that point its incredibly foolhardy, and thats the cold hard truth. I've done this too many times to reiterate.

Frankly I dont really care what prequel believes or does with his game. I do however care when he spreads misinformation.

 

[Mike.]

sorry mike but i only tried the best tactics to see if it was my 3 tactics that i had made that were the problem,but the point i am making is the tactics dont matter as players dont do what you want them to do.ie if i tell my wingers to cross from deep i want them to cross from deep.if i tell my striker to come deep i want him to come deep.i am wasting my time spending hrs on tactics for my players not to do anything that my tactics tell them.

If tactics dont matter, why are people getting their players to do what they want?

Answer: They do. If you're not going to accept that, you might as well pack up FM14 forever, because no patch can solve your thinking and you will just end up frustrated.

That's not me trying to be mean. But if you have already shot down the reasoning that is holding you back, then you're never going to enjoy the game.

 

[jamesyboyhail]

so mike what you are trying to say is football is all about tactics now, come on.if i have far better players than another team i should 9 0ut 0f 10 times win regardles of tactics unless your a complete numpty at the game.ie if i have a striker with 19 finishing 18 composure,18 movement and so on,i expect him to play like his stats.for instance i signed lewandowski for man utd and he plays like hes never seen a ball before,but his stats are amazing.

 

[TJD07]

so mike what you are trying to say is football is all about tactics now, come on.if i have far better players than another team i should 9 0ut 0f 10 times win regardles of tactics unless your a complete numpty at the game.ie if i have a striker with 19 finishing 18 composure,18 movement and so on,i expect him to play like his stats.for instance i signed lewandowski for man utd and he plays like hes never seen a ball before,but his stats are amazing.

You shouldn't just win because you have better players, if you want to take that into some real life example City and Real Madrid are the two biggest names out there. Both teams filled with massive names and great ability, yet they don't win 9 out of 10 games do they?

A players attributes alone aren't what makes them great, Shane Long on paper on the game isn't brilliant, set up your team right and you'll get a goal a game out of him fairly easily though. It's not just about throwing players out there and expecting them to do brilliantly every game without fail, it just doesn't happen.

The same comes when people download a tactic from on here and when it doesn't work for them. They see that it's worked for other people but because it's not for them the game is broken. Most of the time it's because they've not given it time, had a bad run of games or more often than not they just don't have the players to suit that type of play.



I've taken Plymouth from League 2 to the playoffs in the Championship in three seasons, I've had to change style for each league to suit my players and the players they're going against. Started out as a very defensive counter attacking style to suit the decent defenders I had and the one pacey striker, now in the championship my defense is horrid so I exploit the attacking talent I have and just try to press my advantage.
It's not impossible to do well, people just fail to realize it's not just about getting some game winning tactic and throwing in players.

 

[Reins0]

View attachment 453111

all the time.

it's like it is impossible to score from open play. the opposition goalkeepers save every single shot. and sure thing chances are usually shot right at the keeper by strikers. also when the striker goes one-on-one, he usually shoots from 25m out. what the ****?

 

[Mike.]

so mike what you are trying to say is football is all about tactics now, come on.if i have far better players than another team i should 9 0ut 0f 10 times win regardles of tactics unless your a complete numpty at the game.ie if i have a striker with 19 finishing 18 composure,18 movement and so on,i expect him to play like his stats.for instance i signed lewandowski for man utd and he plays like hes never seen a ball before,but his stats are amazing.

See, I didn't say that either, that was all about tactics, so not sure why you made that leap. But no you shouldn't win 9 of out 10 either. Most top teams in real life don't win 9 of out 10 set up well, what makes you think you should win 9 of 10 with a horrific set up. **** just look at man city home and away this season, lethal at home, awful away, constant done over by teams you'd expect them to steam roller. Its all about the balance between sheer quality, tactical nous, man management, and transfer policy, if you lack in one area you will need to account in another. if you lack too badly in one, you will come unstuck.