manutd7182
Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2013
- Messages
- 184
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 18
Hello again everyone. Not sure if anyone has used my first replication of the Gegenpressing tactic earlier on the year but I have went away and developed a new version of my previous tactic buried somewhere in this forum and it seems to be working for the latest patch version of FM 2014 after my old tactic sort of failed after the new release. But anyway, I shall get to the point.
What is gegenpressing?
It might not be the true definition of gegenpressing. But from watching Dortmund play, this is what I feel gengenpressing is.
- Aggressive pressing of the opponent whilst maintaining organised team positioning
- Fast transition from defence to attack
- 11 players working their socks off for 90 minutes
Without the ball - The team would press the opposition forcing them to make a mistake in their passing or looking for tackling opportunities to win the ball back. I felt that this is done as a team and positioning and organisation is the key in getting success.
With the ball - The team immediately hit a through ball in to space and turn defence to attack before the opposition has a chance to organise themselves.
Formation
My team will be set up in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Similar to how Borussia Dortmund are set up in real life.
Mentality: Attack
Fluidity: Very Rigid
After developing my initial tactic and further browsing through what gegenpressing is all about, I feel that Attacking is the best description of how Dortmund play in real life, winning the ball high up the field and quick transition from defence to attack as quickly as possible and thus the reason why I have decided to go with Attacking as the mentality for this tactic. The reason that I have chosen Very Rigid as the fluidity basically so the defenders, midfielders and attackers are responsible for their own areas alone. For example, the defenders are only responsible to their defensive duties and that alone.
Key Team Instructions
Go Route One: Well basically, to get it to the attackers as quickly as possible.
Play Out of Defence: I do not want my players to hoof it up the field.
Much Higher Defence Line: Winning the ball high and as quickly as possible. Stopping the opponents from playing and keeping them in their own half, where you want them to be.
Hassle Opponents: Heavy pressing, stopping them from playing, limit their space and time.
Higher Tempo: Fast transition from defence to attack.
Be More Disciplined: Maintain their shape and being organised.
Stay on Feet: Don't want any reckless tackles.
Use Tight Marking: Keeping close to the opponents, leaving little space.
Drill Crosses: Fast attacking, fast crosses hoping to catch opposition defence off guard.
Play Narrower: Again, limit the opposition space, keeping the team as a compact unit high up the pitch.
View attachment 405918
What type of players do you need for this tactic?
You will need fast defenders, at least one fast defender in your central defence pairing since you will defending high up the pitch and I don't agree with dragging the back line as it defeats the object of pressing and winning the ball back high. Almost every player must have high team work and work rate as well as high stamina to keep up with the high pressing for long periods of time.
The Players
GK - Sweeper Keeper - Defend (Instructions: Pass it shorter, Distribute to Defenders)
A standard goalkeeper but controls his own penalty area and helping out the defence when balls over the top are launched to the areas or sweeping through balls that may bypass the defence hopefully with these instructions, it doesn't go route one with his kicking.
RB - Complete Wing Back - Attack (Instructions: Shoot less often, Pass it shorter, Fewer risky passes)
Basically, something similar to a Dani Alves. Providing the overlap, crosses. Attacking full back.
CB - Central Defender - Defend (Instructions: Pass it shorter)
Standard pair of centre backs.
LB - Full Back - Automatic (Instructions: Shoot less often, Pass it shorter, Fewer risky passes)
The more disciplined full back compared to his friend down the right hand side. Balancing the defence and attack.
MCR - Central Midfield - Defend (Instructions: Pass it shorter, Fewer risky passes, Shoot Less Often, Tackle Harder)
I chose the Central Midfield over the Ball Winning Midfielder because the Central Midfield holds the midfield better and gives slightly better protection for the back 4. Pass it shorter in hope of passing it to the partnering playmaker.
MCL - Deep Lying Playmaker - Support (Instructions: More Direct Passes, Roam from Position)
Ilkay Gundogan/Nuri Sahin role, spreading the play and supporting the attack.
AMR - Inside Forward or Defensive Winger - Support (Instructions: Hold Position, Sit Narrower, Shoot Less Often, Pass it Shorter, Fewer risky Passes, Cross from Deep)
Usually prefer IFs but if you want a true Blaszczykowski role then a DW is for you. Someone who stays on the wing and provides quick crosses.
AMC - Advanced Playmaker - Attack (Instructions: Roam from Position, More Direct Passes, Close Down More, Move Into Channels)
The Gotze role when he was still at Dortmund, the creator.
AML - Inside Forward - Attack (Instructions: Sit Narrower, Get Further Forward, Shoot Less Often, Pass it Shorter, Fewer risky passes)
The Marco Reus role, secondary attacker, gets in the box and hopefully chip in a few goals.
ST - Complete Forward - Attack (Instructions: Roam from Position, Move Into Channels)
The all round attacker, coming deep, fashions a chance for himself and others. The main threat.
Additional Information
- When playing against a team that mirrors your formation 4-2-3-1
What I do here is not close the Central Midfielders down when setting my OI (I let my assistant handle the OI only if his tactic attribute is 15+) As I feel if the team is also focused on closing the opposition CM down. They may lose focus on the opposition AMC, their creator, to ensure the opposition AMC does not get the space and time to pick out the killer pass.
I would also to add if one of the deep central midfielders have high passing and creativity rate, I advise to close him down too. But only close down one of the deeper central midfielders maximum.
- Exploit the Middle when playing against non narrow tactics.
- When playing against a team who plays Narrow. Such as a narrow 4-4-2 Diamond or a 4-2-3-1 with no Wingers or any narrow formations which focus the play in the middle.
I found that it worked best when I instruct the team to Exploit the Flanks as well as showing the opposition full backs to their weaker foot. I have found that it absolutely destroys their formation.
- When you have the possession but not the shots/goals
I increase the tempo. It does help and it has helped me the odd times to nick a goal when I need the goals at crucial times.
- As for OIs, I tend to leave it to the Assistant Manager if he has the Tactical Knowledge stat of at least 15. And make sure the central midfield pairing are closed down.
Further enhancing the pressing
- Man mark the best passing central defender of the opposition.
Set your striker to specifically man mark the best passer of the back 4 so the weaker one will do the passing and since this is a 4-2-3-1, the wingers will sort the the opposition full backs out (no specific instructions needed). If both CBs have same passing stat, man mark the most creative of the two.
- Read the scout report
Check which area the opposition gain the most assists.
For example, if the opposition gains the most assists on the right wing. I additionally set my LB to close down more and my left sided central midfield to close down more to shut off the supply from their strongest area.
If checking from my tactic above. The example I just used means my LB and Deep lying playmaker would be set to close down more for this particular match. HOWEVER the partner to my Deep lying playmaker is assigned the Central Midfielder role with the Defend duty, and the CM - D already has Close down more by default and I heavily advise to set the CM - D to Close down less in order to have at least one midfielder to shield the back 4. But of course, only use this for the scenario above.
But just to make this easier..... if the opposition gains the most assists on the left wing. Set the RB - Close down more and since the right sided central midfielder (the CM - D) already has close down more, you're sorted in that area. Just a tip here.
So I went away and made further testing regards to my released tactics whilst taking whatever comments I have been given on board to improve this tactic. So I have been told that my 'Attack' tactic works well at Home as well as against weaker teams but does not work as effective against stronger or equivalent teams or if you are playing away. So, after some comments that have been posted and given privately I have come up with new ideas on improvements that have worked well for me and this is what I have come up with.
Tactic A - Home Tactic
View attachment 405918
I have decided to keep my BVB Attack tactic as the Home tactic since it has worked fairly well. So no introduction to that.
Tactic B - Away Tactic/Against Tougher Teams
View attachment 400623
The idea behind this tactic is giving the back 4 a bit more protection in an away match. Compared to the home tactic, my right winger and one of my central midfielder is moved deeper to a right midfield and defensive midfield position respectively. Letting my front 3 do the attacking. I have also moved my Advanced Playmaker more to the left to encourage it working with the Inside Forward a bit more, basically trying to replicate the 'Gotzeus' combination. My AP is set with running wide with the ball which encourages the AP to run round whilst the IF will cut inside and get in the vacated space that the AP will make. Further on, since the front 3 will be more of the main focus for the away tactic, the Right Winger will lurk from outside or out wide, sneaking in to the far post to finish off any crosses aimed at the far post. Kind of reminds me of how Blaszczykowski does for Dortmund in my opinion.
As for the Defensive Midfield, I feel either a DM or an Anchor Man will work for that position depending what type of player you play in the DM position, similar to how Dortmund plays with either Kehl and Bender. Kehl is more of the Anchor Man and Bender is more of the DM or BWM player. DM role for extra closing down or an Anchor Man who intercepts play, shields the Centre Backs and playing short passes to the more creative, attacking players.
Tactic C - Playing Against teams with 2 Defensive Midfielders
View attachment 400622
With this tactic, basically a more narrow 4-2-3-1. I have noticed when I used my Home tactic against teams who play 2 DMs, basically, it didn't really work. I feel that the single Advanced Playmaker was marked by at least one of the opposition Defensive Midfield. Hence why I have created this tactic as a Plan C. Operates similar to my home tactic and it works well away from home too. What I have done here is, I have set the two Advanced Playmakers to run wide with the ball and you must have them man mark opposition full backs/wing backs. Since this tactic is made to counter against teams who play 2 Defensive Mids, by having 3 Attacking Midfielders for them to play against, it would give them a lot more to think about regards to who they will mark.
So overall, in real life, Dortmund are able to play a number of formations whilst maintaining their philosophy of pressing the opposition and this is what I am trying to replicate. I know so far it may be not perfect but I am still working and tweaking and testing this with teams. It would be great if people are willing to give this a try. Give us some feedback, screenshots or anything that you can that may contribute, that would be great.
Results So Far
Man United (New Save)
View attachment 400621View attachment 400620View attachment 400619
View attachment 400618View attachment 400617View attachment 400616
View attachment 400615View attachment 400614View attachment 400613
View attachment 400612View attachment 400611View attachment 400610
View attachment 400609View attachment 400608View attachment 400607
View attachment 400603View attachment 400602View attachment 400601
View attachment 400606View attachment 400605View attachment 400604
Borussia Dortmund (Will Update More Soon)
View attachment 400600
How would you know if the tactic is working well?
- If the opposition is pinned back in the own half as shown from the screenshots of the average positioning of the opposition above
- If you have more shots
- If you have more possession (But this is not a tactic where possession is the primary object like in a Tiki Taka Tactic)
- Dominating the tackles, passing rate in Defence, Midfield and Attack
Training
Pre-season: Tactics, Very High and Tactics Only
During the season: Balanced, Average and either Attacking Movement or Defensive Positioning depending if you need more goals or want more defensive stability.
If Down To 10 Men:
Sacrifice the striker, basically keep the formation as it is but without the striker position and change the AP in to a Shadow Striker role.
What is gegenpressing?
It might not be the true definition of gegenpressing. But from watching Dortmund play, this is what I feel gengenpressing is.
- Aggressive pressing of the opponent whilst maintaining organised team positioning
- Fast transition from defence to attack
- 11 players working their socks off for 90 minutes
Without the ball - The team would press the opposition forcing them to make a mistake in their passing or looking for tackling opportunities to win the ball back. I felt that this is done as a team and positioning and organisation is the key in getting success.
With the ball - The team immediately hit a through ball in to space and turn defence to attack before the opposition has a chance to organise themselves.
Formation
My team will be set up in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Similar to how Borussia Dortmund are set up in real life.
Mentality: Attack
Fluidity: Very Rigid
After developing my initial tactic and further browsing through what gegenpressing is all about, I feel that Attacking is the best description of how Dortmund play in real life, winning the ball high up the field and quick transition from defence to attack as quickly as possible and thus the reason why I have decided to go with Attacking as the mentality for this tactic. The reason that I have chosen Very Rigid as the fluidity basically so the defenders, midfielders and attackers are responsible for their own areas alone. For example, the defenders are only responsible to their defensive duties and that alone.
Key Team Instructions
Go Route One: Well basically, to get it to the attackers as quickly as possible.
Play Out of Defence: I do not want my players to hoof it up the field.
Much Higher Defence Line: Winning the ball high and as quickly as possible. Stopping the opponents from playing and keeping them in their own half, where you want them to be.
Hassle Opponents: Heavy pressing, stopping them from playing, limit their space and time.
Higher Tempo: Fast transition from defence to attack.
Be More Disciplined: Maintain their shape and being organised.
Stay on Feet: Don't want any reckless tackles.
Use Tight Marking: Keeping close to the opponents, leaving little space.
Drill Crosses: Fast attacking, fast crosses hoping to catch opposition defence off guard.
Play Narrower: Again, limit the opposition space, keeping the team as a compact unit high up the pitch.
View attachment 405918
What type of players do you need for this tactic?
You will need fast defenders, at least one fast defender in your central defence pairing since you will defending high up the pitch and I don't agree with dragging the back line as it defeats the object of pressing and winning the ball back high. Almost every player must have high team work and work rate as well as high stamina to keep up with the high pressing for long periods of time.
The Players
GK - Sweeper Keeper - Defend (Instructions: Pass it shorter, Distribute to Defenders)
A standard goalkeeper but controls his own penalty area and helping out the defence when balls over the top are launched to the areas or sweeping through balls that may bypass the defence hopefully with these instructions, it doesn't go route one with his kicking.
RB - Complete Wing Back - Attack (Instructions: Shoot less often, Pass it shorter, Fewer risky passes)
Basically, something similar to a Dani Alves. Providing the overlap, crosses. Attacking full back.
CB - Central Defender - Defend (Instructions: Pass it shorter)
Standard pair of centre backs.
LB - Full Back - Automatic (Instructions: Shoot less often, Pass it shorter, Fewer risky passes)
The more disciplined full back compared to his friend down the right hand side. Balancing the defence and attack.
MCR - Central Midfield - Defend (Instructions: Pass it shorter, Fewer risky passes, Shoot Less Often, Tackle Harder)
I chose the Central Midfield over the Ball Winning Midfielder because the Central Midfield holds the midfield better and gives slightly better protection for the back 4. Pass it shorter in hope of passing it to the partnering playmaker.
MCL - Deep Lying Playmaker - Support (Instructions: More Direct Passes, Roam from Position)
Ilkay Gundogan/Nuri Sahin role, spreading the play and supporting the attack.
AMR - Inside Forward or Defensive Winger - Support (Instructions: Hold Position, Sit Narrower, Shoot Less Often, Pass it Shorter, Fewer risky Passes, Cross from Deep)
Usually prefer IFs but if you want a true Blaszczykowski role then a DW is for you. Someone who stays on the wing and provides quick crosses.
AMC - Advanced Playmaker - Attack (Instructions: Roam from Position, More Direct Passes, Close Down More, Move Into Channels)
The Gotze role when he was still at Dortmund, the creator.
AML - Inside Forward - Attack (Instructions: Sit Narrower, Get Further Forward, Shoot Less Often, Pass it Shorter, Fewer risky passes)
The Marco Reus role, secondary attacker, gets in the box and hopefully chip in a few goals.
ST - Complete Forward - Attack (Instructions: Roam from Position, Move Into Channels)
The all round attacker, coming deep, fashions a chance for himself and others. The main threat.
Additional Information
- When playing against a team that mirrors your formation 4-2-3-1
What I do here is not close the Central Midfielders down when setting my OI (I let my assistant handle the OI only if his tactic attribute is 15+) As I feel if the team is also focused on closing the opposition CM down. They may lose focus on the opposition AMC, their creator, to ensure the opposition AMC does not get the space and time to pick out the killer pass.
I would also to add if one of the deep central midfielders have high passing and creativity rate, I advise to close him down too. But only close down one of the deeper central midfielders maximum.
- Exploit the Middle when playing against non narrow tactics.
- When playing against a team who plays Narrow. Such as a narrow 4-4-2 Diamond or a 4-2-3-1 with no Wingers or any narrow formations which focus the play in the middle.
I found that it worked best when I instruct the team to Exploit the Flanks as well as showing the opposition full backs to their weaker foot. I have found that it absolutely destroys their formation.
- When you have the possession but not the shots/goals
I increase the tempo. It does help and it has helped me the odd times to nick a goal when I need the goals at crucial times.
- As for OIs, I tend to leave it to the Assistant Manager if he has the Tactical Knowledge stat of at least 15. And make sure the central midfield pairing are closed down.
Further enhancing the pressing
- Man mark the best passing central defender of the opposition.
Set your striker to specifically man mark the best passer of the back 4 so the weaker one will do the passing and since this is a 4-2-3-1, the wingers will sort the the opposition full backs out (no specific instructions needed). If both CBs have same passing stat, man mark the most creative of the two.
- Read the scout report
Check which area the opposition gain the most assists.
For example, if the opposition gains the most assists on the right wing. I additionally set my LB to close down more and my left sided central midfield to close down more to shut off the supply from their strongest area.
If checking from my tactic above. The example I just used means my LB and Deep lying playmaker would be set to close down more for this particular match. HOWEVER the partner to my Deep lying playmaker is assigned the Central Midfielder role with the Defend duty, and the CM - D already has Close down more by default and I heavily advise to set the CM - D to Close down less in order to have at least one midfielder to shield the back 4. But of course, only use this for the scenario above.
But just to make this easier..... if the opposition gains the most assists on the left wing. Set the RB - Close down more and since the right sided central midfielder (the CM - D) already has close down more, you're sorted in that area. Just a tip here.
Major Update - Will Require Testers
Tactic A - Home Tactic
View attachment 405918
I have decided to keep my BVB Attack tactic as the Home tactic since it has worked fairly well. So no introduction to that.
Tactic B - Away Tactic/Against Tougher Teams
View attachment 400623
The idea behind this tactic is giving the back 4 a bit more protection in an away match. Compared to the home tactic, my right winger and one of my central midfielder is moved deeper to a right midfield and defensive midfield position respectively. Letting my front 3 do the attacking. I have also moved my Advanced Playmaker more to the left to encourage it working with the Inside Forward a bit more, basically trying to replicate the 'Gotzeus' combination. My AP is set with running wide with the ball which encourages the AP to run round whilst the IF will cut inside and get in the vacated space that the AP will make. Further on, since the front 3 will be more of the main focus for the away tactic, the Right Winger will lurk from outside or out wide, sneaking in to the far post to finish off any crosses aimed at the far post. Kind of reminds me of how Blaszczykowski does for Dortmund in my opinion.
As for the Defensive Midfield, I feel either a DM or an Anchor Man will work for that position depending what type of player you play in the DM position, similar to how Dortmund plays with either Kehl and Bender. Kehl is more of the Anchor Man and Bender is more of the DM or BWM player. DM role for extra closing down or an Anchor Man who intercepts play, shields the Centre Backs and playing short passes to the more creative, attacking players.
Tactic C - Playing Against teams with 2 Defensive Midfielders
View attachment 400622
With this tactic, basically a more narrow 4-2-3-1. I have noticed when I used my Home tactic against teams who play 2 DMs, basically, it didn't really work. I feel that the single Advanced Playmaker was marked by at least one of the opposition Defensive Midfield. Hence why I have created this tactic as a Plan C. Operates similar to my home tactic and it works well away from home too. What I have done here is, I have set the two Advanced Playmakers to run wide with the ball and you must have them man mark opposition full backs/wing backs. Since this tactic is made to counter against teams who play 2 Defensive Mids, by having 3 Attacking Midfielders for them to play against, it would give them a lot more to think about regards to who they will mark.
So overall, in real life, Dortmund are able to play a number of formations whilst maintaining their philosophy of pressing the opposition and this is what I am trying to replicate. I know so far it may be not perfect but I am still working and tweaking and testing this with teams. It would be great if people are willing to give this a try. Give us some feedback, screenshots or anything that you can that may contribute, that would be great.
Results So Far
Man United (New Save)
View attachment 400621View attachment 400620View attachment 400619
View attachment 400618View attachment 400617View attachment 400616
View attachment 400615View attachment 400614View attachment 400613
View attachment 400612View attachment 400611View attachment 400610
View attachment 400609View attachment 400608View attachment 400607
View attachment 400603View attachment 400602View attachment 400601
View attachment 400606View attachment 400605View attachment 400604
Borussia Dortmund (Will Update More Soon)
View attachment 400600
How would you know if the tactic is working well?
- If the opposition is pinned back in the own half as shown from the screenshots of the average positioning of the opposition above
- If you have more shots
- If you have more possession (But this is not a tactic where possession is the primary object like in a Tiki Taka Tactic)
- Dominating the tackles, passing rate in Defence, Midfield and Attack
Training
Pre-season: Tactics, Very High and Tactics Only
During the season: Balanced, Average and either Attacking Movement or Defensive Positioning depending if you need more goals or want more defensive stability.
If Down To 10 Men:
Sacrifice the striker, basically keep the formation as it is but without the striker position and change the AP in to a Shadow Striker role.
Last edited:
