Replicating Borussia Dortmund's Gegenpressing (Take 2)

havanaclue said:
Early days yet - the first game I forgot to do the OIs and therefore failed miserably, after that the oppostion were weaker and I usually beat them with any tactic. But the Leicester game I followed your instructions and hey presto !
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Hope it continues mate! Hopefully see more feedback mate after it becomes 100% fluid.
 
What I hate about 14.3 is that you almost ALWAYS have to concede a goal... It's like black or white - either you score some, but you concede or you don't concede and score a lot less... I cannot find good balance between those.

Also I feel that with 14.3 every instruction seems to be spoiling more than it did previously... Often I find playing without tempo instructions more effective than with them, when I imagined them as a route for players. If I don't have creative, decisive etc players, I would tell them to play fast/slow so they don't think too much and now... I don't know... It's weird.
 
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pilif25 said:
What I hate about 14.3 is that you almost ALWAYS have to concede a goal... It's like black or white - either you score some, but you concede or you don't concede and score a lot less... I cannot find good balance between those.

Also I feel that with 14.3 every instruction seems to be spoiling more than it did previously... Often I find playing without tempo instructions more effective than with them, when I imagined them as a route for players. If I don't have creative, decisive etc players, I would tell them to play fast/slow so they don't think too much and now... I don't know... It's weird.
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Yeah I know what you mean, the Match Engine is a bit.... could be better. I can see where you're coming from especially the scoring/conceding part. I've noticed I can absolutely annihilate an opponent and they just score one out of nowhere just for the sake of scoring. So I get what you mean.
 
Suddenly we are starting to fall off the rails and I have no idea why.
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Forest played a narrow 4-1-2-1-2 - so I closed down the more creative MC, exploited flanks and put the full backs on weaker foot. Bournemouth just played a 4-4-2.

Match prep is on defensive positioning but they must be asleep when we do it.
 
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havanaclue said:
and I'm sorry to say the misery continues.....View attachment 537063
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Sorry to see this man. Hmm but judging from the results, the players are being complacent and overconfident could be a possibility. Could you tell me what sort of goals have you been conceding? Was it a ball over the defence? The players not getting tight enough? And I'm running this tactic with another team but haven't had much problems as such so far.
 
havanaclue said:
Suddenly we are starting to fall off the rails and I have no idea why.
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Forest played a narrow 4-1-2-1-2 - so I closed down the more creative MC, exploited flanks and put the full backs on weaker foot. Bournemouth just played a 4-4-2.

Match prep is on defensive positioning but they must be asleep when we do it.
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Did you close down the AMC by the way? I've been continuously testing and I've noticed that whether a team plays a DM, using your AMC to man mark the opposition DM may help. But yeah, from my previous post, what sort of goals have you been conceding.
 
manutd7182 said:
Did you close down the AMC by the way? I've been continuously testing and I've noticed that whether a team plays a DM, using your AMC to man mark the opposition DM may help. But yeah, from my previous post, what sort of goals have you been conceding.
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here are the match highlights of the 4 straight league defeats.

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Followed your instructions but everything fell apart - maybe the players just aren't good enough, or maybe I'm not. I know the tactic isn't 100% fluid yet but getting trounced in 4 games in a row is a little hard to take.
 
havanaclue said:
here are the match highlights of the 4 straight league defeats.

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Followed your instructions but everything fell apart - maybe the players just aren't good enough, or maybe I'm not. I know the tactic isn't 100% fluid yet but getting trounced in 4 games in a row is a little hard to take.
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This is what I use for my current Opposition Instructions Set up.

For any formation with these players:

Wingers/Wide Midfielders - Tackle Hard, Weaker Foot
Strikers - Tackle Hard, Weaker Foot

For formations with CM and AMC:

CM - Tackle Hard, Weaker Foot
More Creative CM - Closing Down as well
Less Creative CM - Tight Mark instead
AMC - Close down, Tackle Hard, Weaker Foot

For Formations with CM and DM:

CM: Close down, Tackle Hard and Weaker Foot
DM: Close down (Specifically man mark DM with your AMC)

For Formation with a Flat 4 Midfield.. like 4-4-2:
CM: Close Down, Tackle Hard and Weaker Foot
 
manutd7182 said:
This is what I use for my current Opposition Instructions Set up.

For any formation with these players:

Wingers/Wide Midfielders - Tackle Hard, Weaker Foot
Strikers - Tackle Hard, Weaker Foot

For formations with CM and AMC:

CM - Tackle Hard, Weaker Foot
More Creative CM - Closing Down as well
Less Creative CM - Tight Mark instead
AMC - Close down, Tackle Hard, Weaker Foot

For Formations with CM and DM:

CM: Close down, Tackle Hard and Weaker Foot
DM: Close down (Specifically man mark DM with your AMC)

For Formation with a Flat 4 Midfield.. like 4-4-2:
CM: Close Down, Tackle Hard and Weaker Foot
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Followed these instructions (had before just closed down then MCs as in your post and asked My assistant to do the rest (tactical 14)
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I'll give it a few more games but I think I'll get the sack before then.....
 
kitchin75 said:
what do you do if thay play with 2 dm?
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Actually developed (testing phase) where I have 3 AMs behind the striker. So a 4-2-3-1 narrow set up. With 3 AMs consist of AP-SS-AP. With the APs running wide with the ball and man marking the full backs. To sort of giving the effect the APs are like IFs.

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You could give this a test. Same instructions as the original tactic but make sure the AP is man marking the opposition Full Backs as well.

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Sorry mate but this is just not working for me at all - totally frustrated, as I have been since I bought this game.
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Keep up the good work, one tactic can't suit every team (or lousy manager - that's me I'm referring to).
 
havanaclue said:
Sorry mate but this is just not working for me at all - totally frustrated, as I have been since I bought this game.
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Keep up the good work, one tactic can't suit every team (or lousy manager - that's me I'm referring to).
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Sorry man that it didn't work for you in the end. Well, I am currently working on this tactic. Trial and error with some aspects. And I have found something that's been working so far. Still early days, only used it a handful of matches so far. So if this works. I'll post it up. Watch this space.
 
Major Update - Will Require Testers

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So I went away and made further testing regards to my released tactics whilst taking whatever comments I have been given on board to improve this tactic. So I have been told that my 'Attack' tactic works well at Home as well as against weaker teams but does not work as effective against stronger or equivalent teams or if you are playing away. So, after some comments that have been posted and given privately I have come up with new ideas on improvements that have worked well for me and this is what I have come up with.

Tactic A - Home Tactic

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I have decided to keep my BVB Attack tactic as the Home tactic since it has worked fairly well. So no introduction to that.

Tactic B - Away Tactic/Against Tougher Teams

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The idea behind this tactic is giving the back 4 a bit more protection in an away match. Compared to the home tactic, my right winger and one of my central midfielder is moved deeper to a right midfield and defensive midfield position respectively. Letting my front 3 do the attacking. I have also moved my Advanced Playmaker more to the left to encourage it working with the Inside Forward a bit more, basically trying to replicate the 'Gotzeus' combination. My AP is set with running wide with the ball which encourages the AP to run round whilst the IF will cut inside and get in the vacated space that the AP will make. Further on, since the front 3 will be more of the main focus for the away tactic, the Right Winger will lurk from outside or out wide, sneaking in to the far post to finish off any crosses aimed at the far post. Kind of reminds me of how Blaszczykowski does for Dortmund in my opinion.
As for the Defensive Midfield, I feel either a DM or an Anchor Man will work for that position depending what type of player you play in the DM position, similar to how Dortmund plays with either Kehl and Bender. Kehl is more of the Anchor Man and Bender is more of the DM or BWM player. DM role for extra closing down or an Anchor Man who intercepts play, shields the Centre Backs and playing short passes to the more creative, attacking players.

Tactic C - Playing Against teams with 2 Defensive Midfielders

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With this tactic, basically a more narrow 4-2-3-1. I have noticed when I used my Home tactic against teams who play 2 DMs, basically, it didn't really work. I feel that the single Advanced Playmaker was marked by at least one of the opposition Defensive Midfield. Hence why I have created this tactic as a Plan C. Operates similar to my home tactic and it works well away from home too. What I have done here is, I have set the two Advanced Playmakers to run wide with the ball and you must have them man mark opposition full backs/wing backs. Since this tactic is made to counter against teams who play 2 Defensive Mids, by having 3 Attacking Midfielders for them to play against, it would give them a lot more to think about regards to who they will mark.

So overall, in real life, Dortmund are able to play a number of formations whilst maintaining their philosophy of pressing the opposition and this is what I am trying to replicate. I know so far it may be not perfect but I am still working and tweaking and testing this with teams. It would be great if people are willing to give this a try. Give us some feedback, screenshots or anything that you can that may contribute, that would be great.

Results So Far


Man United (New Save)
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Borussia Dortmund (Will Update More Soon)

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