I already watched all of those videos, and your argument is complete bollocks. All of those cases were completely accidental in post-game interviews, and none of them were malicious statements. If any of them were fined, I wouldn't be bothered, but what Rooney did is totally different. He deliberately went up to the camera and said "**** off." He intentionally swore at millions of people, and it was a malicious statement. Letting an F bomb slip during an interview, or labeling criticism as a 'load of bollocks' is very different from telling millions of people to **** off. It's also unprecedented, and the FA made an example out of him. Even if it was harsh, all of the ManU fans on this thread have focused on everything other than the fact that Rooney made a stupid mistake and let down his team.
Rooney Awaiting News on Punishment
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I already watched all of those videos, and your argument is complete bollocks. All of those cases were completely accidental in post-game interviews, and none of them were malicious statements. If any of them were fined, I wouldn't be bothered, but what Rooney did is totally different. He deliberately went up to the camera and said "**** off." He intentionally swore at millions of people, and it was a malicious statement. Letting an F bomb slip during an interview, or labeling criticism as a 'load of bollocks' is very different from telling millions of people to **** off. It's also unprecedented, and the FA made an example out of him. Even if it was harsh, all of the ManU fans on this thread have focused on everything other than the fact that Rooney made a stupid mistake and let down his team.
No you haven't answered the first part. How can you differentiate between the video's linked and Rooney? As I've said, the post-match ones are worse since it's far more audible. Hence, he's being targeted. Not that hard to see, it's really not. You're creating such a specific sense of circumstances that the chances of said event happening are slim. The overall offence is the same, you're changing the circumstances in which the offence occurred. If you compare the offences, it's clear that the FA have been overly harsh. When you justify to me how the FA can ignore Gerrard, VDS, Fergie swearing and then hand out a 2 match ban, I'll bow down and accept you're right. The thing is, you can't.
---------- Post added at 08:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------
Wait wait, what? It's accidental in post-match and then not accidental in game? Really? So, in those interviews, in the overwhelming emotion and the heat of the moment, they swore, and that's okay? But then, you go on a moral crusade because Rooney, in the heat of the moment with emotions running high, swears into a camera? What's with the immense hyperbole? If you swear at a camera in a sports interview are you still not swearing at millions of people?
How is "****? What? ****? more malicious than anything other than I linked. Really, really weak argument.
Rooney didn't say **** off. It was What.. ******* what..
He didn't walk to the camera. Cameraman was on the pitch which he shouldn't be in the first place.
Rooney didn't let down our team, he carried us in the game and staged a superb comeback.
A)two wrongs don't make a right, b)you can't hear when people scream fat ****, even when they do it in a chant (I've never been able to understand a single chant on TV unless I knew the words already, c)public figures are held to much different standards than average citizens, it's part of the territory, and I don't feel sorry for them one bit because they have the best job in the world and earn millions, d)Rooney is a role model for millions, and none of those fans are, e)the FA can't seriously punish people for swearing during a match, but they can't sit there and do nothing if a player that their organization governs walks right up to a camera and deliberately swears at it, and f)it's irrelevant to the topic at hand, the hypocrisy of a few fans doesn't mean that Rooney should be punished or that their argument is incorrect.
Connah2010
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Pathetic decision you see players swearing all the time
How is it not inconsistent if in every single incident of a player swearing they have been lenient and in this case they haven't?
Swearing at refs, fine.
Swearing at other players, fine.
Swearing into a camera, 2 match ban.
Swearing at refs, fine.
Swearing at other players, fine.
Swearing into a camera, 2 match ban.
Yeah I already did. It's a completely different scenario. The players have to be interviewed after the game, the league requires it because it makes them money. When you're asked to talk right after a game like that where emotions are high, sometimes they might get the better of you. No one was interviewing Rooney when he scored that goal. No one asked him to talk. No one asked him to walk right up to the camera. He didn't accidentally say "****" to the camera like Micah Richards or VDS did. He deliberately walked right up to it, when you're not supposed to say anything to the camera, and said "****." It was a completely stupid thing to do and I don't feel sorry for him one bit. The fact that you choose not to see the difference between these two scenarios only shows that you're biased here.
It looked to me that he said **** off, if he said **** what, it's basically the same thing.
Rooney didn't let his team down during the WH game and his goals, but he did during that stupid, needless celebration. If it was a player for one of my teams I'd be absolutely livid with him, whether or not the punishment was harsh. When one of my team's players does something stupid that could result in him or the team being punished, I always get mad at him. Even if the punishment was too harsh, the person I am the most mad at is the player, not the disciplinary body, because it was the player's own fault that said punishment occurs. Yet not a single person complaining about the decision has admitted that what Rooney did was stupid and unnecessary and that he let down the team.
Edit: forgot to mention, what about the cameraman? You're actually blaming the cameraman? His job is to get as close as possible to the players. He knew Rooney would celebrate, and he'd be doing his job by going there and getting as close as possible to him so that he could get a close-up of him celebrating. This is what cameramen are supposed to do. There's no way he could have known or intended on Rooney going up to the camera and swearing. Players have close-ups of celebrations all of the time and they never do this.
This is what gets me. You guys are now blaming the cameraman for this incident...you've literally blamed everyone possible for this other than Rooney. What about Rooney for actually doing the **** thing?
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Proving my point again, thanks. They do the post match interviews to get a reaction. They put a camera and microphone in his face to, surprise surprise, get a reaction. As Mike's article said. Don't want to hear players swearing? Then don't go out to look for it. The words mountain from a molehill spring to mind.
**** off is an insult directed towards someone. **** what is a statement.
We've already been over this. Scenario A may/may not be intentional, is directed at one person, is not easily detectable, is not easily punished (because doing so would be incredibly inconsistent), and is unavoidable. Scenario B was clearly intentional, directed at millions, was as easily detectable as possible, is very easily punished (it can be punished without any inconsistency, and the FA has to make a punishment if it doesn't want to look bad), and was very avoidable...in this scenario, the player went way out of his way to do something very stupid.
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No way I proved your point, your point was that what Rooney did was the same as what VDS did, which it clearly isn't. Post-game interviews are a necessary part of the game and happen in every sport. They have nothing to do with getting a reaction out of a player. Sometimes a player lets a bad word slip, and no one gets too mad about it because it's understandable, although a fine wouldn't upset me. Rooney deliberately walked up to the camera and said the F word during a goal celebration. You claimed that the punishment was inconsistent, yet not a single scenario you brought up was anything like Rooney's scenario. What Rooney did was stupid and unnecessary and he went out of his way to do it. I doubt he said "**** what" because **** what doesn't make any sense, but whether he said "What? **** what?" or "**** off" is irrelevant, it was the F word and it was clearly malicious. You could tell from his facial expressions that it was an insult. Find me another scenario where a player in the middle of the game deliberately walked up to the camera and swore at it and didn't get punished. If you can't then don't go on about the FA being inconsistent and unfairly biased against Rooney/ManU.
Edit: oh, and don't go claiming that people were "looking for swearing." Another terrible argument. No one asked Rooney a question or asked him to talk. He went right up to the camera and swore at it deliberately. Again, you blame everyone other than Rooney...Rooney does something completely idiotic on his own, and then it's other people's fault somehow for "making him swear" or "looking for him swearing." The millions of viewers on TV weren't looking for swearing, and some of them were kids who probably weren't allowed to see the match live for the swearing that happens at it. They didn't count on seeing the F word right in front of their screen, and they definitely didn't count on their idol saying it to the camera. Rooney let a lot of people down: his team, and his young fans. I don't care about the latter, but you can't deny the fact that he ****** up and cost his team. Yet everyone in this thread just wants to blame everyone but Rooney.
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What's the point in punishing scenario B if you're not going to punish scenario A. Surely you're punishing scenario B to send out a message that swearing is unacceptable but you're then undermining it by overlooking every other incident.
Yes, that is what he said. **** on it's own isn't malicious, it depends on the context. If you drop a glass and say "Oh for ****'s sake!" is that being malicious? No, not at all. Rooney didn't run to the camera. The camera came to him, at the height of his emotions. In the same way that in a post-match interview the camera is coming to you, at the height of your emotion. Football invokes immense emotion and passion in players, and thus things will be said. Don't want to hear them? No one is forcing Sky and the FA to allow them to stick a camera and microphone in the player's face, is there? No. Your argument is ridiculous, right the way from claiming Rooney was being malicious to accepting player's can swear in one place but not another. Hypocritical and stupid. I expect you to be intelligent enough to understand the concept of context, too.
Ugh Man United fans dont want him punished, everyone else does - WHAT a suprise, well done fm-base.
He probably doesn't deserve match bans in my eyes but this balances out the elbow thing which he got away with, and the 10000 other things Man Utd got away with - the universe is balanced.
He probably doesn't deserve match bans in my eyes but this balances out the elbow thing which he got away with, and the 10000 other things Man Utd got away with - the universe is balanced.
What a foolish thing to say, United get away with no Less then others, just the media make a mountain out of every little decision we get.. Like the Vidic thing at the weekend, yet not one media source has mentioned Essien...
But Scenario A is unpunishable. It happens often and you can't determine whether they are swearing at the Ref, himself, or the world. Since it happens all of the time, punishing it is inconsistent because you aren't punishing it the other times. But if a player deliberately goes up to a ref, berates and swears at him inappropriately, often times he is punished for it, usually with a card. I've seen it happen many times. Scenario B, because it is so blatant and in the face of millions of people, has to be punished. You can't avoid punishing it.
Yelling "What? **** what?" at the camera with that facial expression is obviously malicious. I couldn't make out exactly what he said other than the f word, but from his facial express it was obviously malicious. But again, that's irrelevant, it's the f word. As for the other part of your argument, I've already answered it. Post game interviews are completely different. The players are required to speak at a post game interview. Sometimes their emotions get the better of them and they let the f word slip. In all of those interviews, it was clearly unintentional.
In the WH game Rooney went right up to the camera, leaned into it, and said the f word. Cameras go right up to players during their celebrations, this happens ALL of the time. It's part of the territory. The players aren't asked to say anything to it, and they rarely do. And when they do, it's usually something unremarkable, like "I love you mom" or something like that. But Rooney leaned right up to the camera and said the F word, it wasn't unintentional and no one asked him to do it. You can blame other people for his lack of self-control, but can you cite another incident of this happening? None of the other players have had any problems with this. None of the other players have had any problems controlling themselves during goal celebrations in this manner. I'm sure sometimes they let the F word fly during one of those celebrations, **** yeah! or something like that, but not a single on in recent memory has had the audacity to walk right up to the camera, lean into it, and say the F word. What Rooney did was stupid, unnecessary, trashy, and disappointing considering the amount of young people who idolize him. He got punished for it and let the team down. Why blame everyone else but Rooney?
The fact that you refuse to differentiate between these scenarios only shows your bias. Just look at the poll. Even though about 40% of FM basers are ManU fans, over 50% said he should be punished. Clearly, most of the ManU population thinks the punishment was fine.
I find it unbelievable that in your eyes, Man United get away with no less than others and the Vidic thing is a little decision? True Man United biased, and tbh there's no arguing with it, so why bother
I find it unbelievable that in your eyes, Man United get away with no less than others and the Vidic thing is a little decision? True Man United biased, and tbh there's no arguing with it, so why bother
I find it stupid and truly retarded, you follow media **** over United like gospel, Vidic shouldnt even of Been red carded ( Ba wasnt even getting there) Manchester United get some decision and dont get some like every other side, lets not forget there is a case for West Hams 2nd Penalty being outside the box, Vidic foot was. let nothing said about it, bet you if it was United way we would never of heard the end of it.
Lololol. I'm showing bias? Where did you get the statistic for 40% are United fans? And even then, it proves nothing. Awful statistical analysis, just because 40% of Base are United supporters means nothing on the poll. The poll could be 100% of all the non-United supporters for all you know.
The fact YOU refuse to differentiate between the situations only shows your bias. Players swear on the pitch. Fact. People do stupid things through passion and emotion. Fact. If you put a camera and a microphone on the field where these events happen, eventually you will capture them. Fact. The multiple other video's linked only prove this by highlighting that people say things they don't mean in the heat of the moment. How can you say facial expressions prove it's malicious, when I've told you what he said. How can you find malice in the words "****, what ****" only goes to further prove you're desperate to hang him on something, because only an insane person creates malice from those words. Facial expressions? Have you seen Rooney, when does he ever look non-angry?
It's not about having the audacity to do something. When emotions are high logical and rational decisions are often the secondary thought. Hence why when you're arguing with someone, 5 minutes later you'll say to yourself "I wish I didn't say that". Just like later in the day Rooney did the same.
Rooney has now scored over 100 PL goals, and this has happened once. So to try and say just because others haven't, Rooney won't. Because in the vast majority of circumstances, he too, hasn't.
So now, I ask, what is your vendetta with Wayne Rooney about?
Last man, it's irrelevant whether Ba was getting there or not, you may not agree with it but that's the rule and he should have been booked for the penalty and then the stupid challenge later on should have had him off too. Also, you can say Essien should have been sent off and that the media ignored, but you're saying this and you haven't seen an actual video of it. If it was so bad it would have been on MOTD, you could also say that the rules say that Essien should have gone because it was two-footed, maybe but last man is a lot clearer. And it really wasn't outside the box.
The rule is that if you deny a goal scoring opportunity then it's a red card. He wasn't getting the ball, thus not a goal scoring opportunity, and thus not a red card.
You just love to prove other people's argument's, don't you? The argument was that Essien's challenge WASN'T included in the media. How can you be so blind to just believe what the media tells you, are you incapable of looking at a studs up, two footed challenge and deciding if it's a red card or not without the wisdom of Alan Hansen?
Last man means stopping a player getting a shot on goal.
If Ba wasn't getting to the ball, then he clearly isn't getting a shot on goal not matter if he was pulled down or not. Simple rule.
But anyways, This thread is about Rooney.
It is disgraceful that the FA would suspend Rooney like they have. Bringing your team back from 2 goals down, scoring a hat-trick, being in the heat of the moment, having a camera rush up to your face after all the media attention Rooney get over the summer. 2-3 Swears was generous from Rooney. He even apologized straight away. How the **** can he deserve a suspension when you take into account all those things? And yet people like Gerrard get away scot free =/