Tactic Testing League

  • Thread starter Thread starter Will1981
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 216
  • Views Views 84K
< [TABLE="width: 520"]
[TR]
[TD="class: et2, width: 196, align: general"]TACTIC[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 42, align: general"]PLD[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 50, align: general"]WON[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 47, align: general"]DRN[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 40, align: general"]LST[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 44, align: general"]FOR[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 35, align: general"]AG[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 72, align: general"]GD[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 39, align: general"]PTS[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 41, align: general"]YEL[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 45, align: general"]RED[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 43, align: general"]GFC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196, align: general"]Gatling Project update[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42, align: general"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50, align: general"]32[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47, align: general"]7[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40, align: general"]11[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44, align: general"]134[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35, align: general"]67[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72, align: general"]67[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39, align: general"]103[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41, align: general"]39[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45, align: general"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43, align: general"]22[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
I don't know where you tried to upload it Will - but some filehosts accept quite large files...
 
Will1981 said:
here you go.
Click to expand...

Will, I see that you didn't remove remove PPMs from players but these top players in the testing team have about 4-6 PPMs each and that means even if you made just an awful tactic but these PPMs make it perfrom good because any PPMs override your tactical instructions and make a player behave according his PPMs... so any testing with players that have PPMs, especialy, such many is pointless...

Also the fact that you added a lot of good players in the testing team don't make the testing "fair" because you still use "Quick Pick" to pick option to pick the team, it doesn't have any intelligence, especially, when it picks players for a tactic that have ML/MR positions.

For example, here's how the best strating eleven for Devastator tactic should look like if you pick players from your testing team:

The best starting eleven for Devastator tactic:

View attachment 203159




But when you use "Quick Pick" it leaves 4 best players Hazard, Aguero, Silva and Nasri on the bench. Also "Quick Pick" don't recognize that you need a right footed players at ML position and a left footed player at MR position but it have crucial importance...

Also, Hazard, Aguero, Silva and Nasri are the best players not only for Devastator tactic but they are the best players in general in the testing team so if "Quick Pick" doesn't pick them for any tactic then it has a huge impact on the result of testing.


The starting eleven that has been picked with "Quick Pick" option for Devastator tactic:

View attachment 203158


In order to have a "fair" testing these essential conditions should be present:

1) Players shouldn't have any PPMs.

2) All tactics should be provided with equal quality players.

Without such conditions any testing is waste of time…
 
Last edited:
TotalFootballFan9 said:
Will, I see that you didn't remove remove PPMs from players but these top players in the testing team have about 4-6 PPMs each and that means even if you made just an awful tactic but these PPMs make it perfrom good because any PPMs override your tactical instructions and make a player behave according his PPMs... so any testing with players that have PPMs, especialy, such many is pointless...

Also the fact that you added a lot of good players in the testing team don't make the testing "fair" because you still use "Quick Pick" to pick option to pick the team, it doesn't have any intelligence, especially, when it picks players for a tactic that have ML/MR positions.

For example, here's how the best strating eleven for Devastator tactic should look like if you pick players from your testing team:

The best starting eleven for Devastator tactic:

View attachment 994794




But when you use "Quick Pick" it leaves 4 best players Hazard, Aguero, Silva and Nasri on the bench. Also "Quick Pick" don't recognize that you need a right footed players at ML position and a left footed player at MR position but it have crucial importance...

Also, Hazard, Aguero, Silva and Nasri are the best players not only for Devastator tactic but they are the best players in general in the testing team so if "Quick Pick" doesn't pick them for any tactic then it has a huge impact on the result of testing.


The starting eleven that has been picked with "Quick Pick" option for Devastator tactic:

View attachment 994795


In order to have a "fair" testing these essential conditions should be present:

1) Players shouldn't have any PPMs.

2) All tactics should be provided with equal quality players.

Without such conditions any testing is waste of time…
Click to expand...

Try and run a test with "quick pick" and then one where you choose the team and let us see how big the difference is - even with PPMs
 
First I would like to say that I really appreciate the time you spend for this forum. However, as SI have confirmed that roles are extremely important this year, you should indeed try to find players that are natural ML and MR, as I see that in your test, players who are even yellow (even under 50% role rating) are being used in these positions. This is a big problem for any tactics that use ML and MR, as these will have a BIG disadvantage compared to AML/AMR tactics in your test. The test results will then be of little to no use, like TFF said.

In addition, PPM's do override settings set by us tacticians (also like TFF mentioned). This is a BIG problem too, because every single setting in the tactics are chosen very carefully and it is often vital to a tactic that certain settings are not overwritten.

Anyway, I wish you good luck in your future testing :)

Best,
Mr L
 
Mr Langvatn said:
First I would like to say that I really appreciate the time you spend for this forum. However, as SI have confirmed that roles are extremely important this year, you should indeed try to find players that are natural ML and MR, as I see that in your test, players who are even yellow (even under 50% role rating)
Click to expand...

Mate, the rating for the role means absolutely nothing and this rating was made for beginners players in order to give them at least some orienteer when they start to learn FM.

By using different Teams Instructions, PIs and TIs you can greatly modify behavior of any default role and its modified behavior might be totally different from its default behavior but "The System" aren't able recognize the modifications that you made to the role and it doesn't know what attributes the modified role needs to do good in matches and you only know what you did to this role and what attributes it needs to do good in matches. "The game" still keeps giving a rating according the default instructions not taking into consideration your midification to the role.

For example, you might active "Dribble Less" PI or "Dribble More" PI for Wide Midfielder role and depends on that it makes "Dribbling" attribute and some other attributes to be very important attributes for the role or not important at all but "the game" aren't able to see these changes that you made and it still gives "the rating" according the default role instructions.

"Wide Midfielder" is a generic role and you are able to make almost any role from it but "The System/Quick Pick" aren't able to recognize what you made and it chooses players for this role according the default instructions of this role and it doesn't take into consideration your modifications that you made to the role.

For example, Will might clone Hazard 4 times and give him "Natural" rating for ML/MR/AMR/AML positions and use Hazard at these positions when he makes testing because it gives all tactics equal quality player at ML/MR/AMR/AML positions.

The similar should be made for other positions to provide all tactics with equal quality players when it posible because when some tactics receive Hazard as a Winger/Inside Forward and some tactics receive De Bruyne as Winger/Inside Forward then such testing becomes pointless because Hazard is twice better De Bruyne as Winger/Inside Forward.

For Devastator tactic you no need any special players for ML/MR positions you need regular Inside Forward with inverted foot such Hazard but "the game" aren’t able to recognize the modification that were made to Wide Midfielder role and it picks players according the default instruction of Wide Midfielder role.
 
Last edited:
< [TABLE="width: 520"]
[TR]
[TD="class: et2, width: 196"]TACTIC[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 42"]PLD[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 50"]WON[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 47"]DRN[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 40"]LST[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 44"]FOR[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 35"]AG[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 72"]GD[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 39"]PTS[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 41"]YEL[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 45"]RED[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 43"]GFC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196"]Gatling Project update[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50"]32[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47"]7[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40"]11[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44"]134[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35"]67[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72"]67[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39"]103[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41"]39[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43"]22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196"]TFF DEVASTATOR V2[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50"]27[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40"]14[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44"]102[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35"]48[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72"]54[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39"]90[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41"]86[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
From what I understand, the role rating also includes how much the player understands his role... There are PLENTY of players in the game who have natural ML/MR Winger role, but have CRAPPY winger stats.. So, I believe you (TFF) are wrong when you say that the roles are only a tooltip for beginners. If that was the case, the players with the most suitable stats for the winger role would be natural in the winger role..

This is in addition to that SI mods have told everyone at the SI forum that roles play a MUCH bigger part of the game this year than earlier...
 
Last edited:
< [TABLE="width: 520"]
[TR]
[TD="class: et2, width: 196"]TACTIC[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 42"]PLD[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 50"]WON[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 47"]DRN[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 40"]LST[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 44"]FOR[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 35"]AG[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 72"]GD[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 39"]PTS[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 41"]YEL[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 45"]RED[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 43"]GFC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196"]Gatling Project update[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50"]32[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47"]7[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40"]11[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44"]134[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35"]67[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72"]67[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39"]103[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41"]39[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43"]22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196"]Mahluk Taktik v1[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50"]29[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40"]15[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44"]116[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35"]72[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72"]44[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39"]93[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41"]111[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45"]5[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43"]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196"]TFF DEVASTATOR V2[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50"]27[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40"]14[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44"]102[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35"]48[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72"]54[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39"]90[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41"]86[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
4-3-3 Shadow Ninjas

Hey Will!

Can you please test this one? :) With this I conclude my work in this patch! (I have deleted all my other tactics because of this one, as it vastly overperforms in comparison with my others)
 
Last edited:
< [TABLE="width: 520"]
[TR]
[TD="class: et2, width: 196"]TACTIC[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 42"]PLD[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 50"]WON[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 47"]DRN[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 40"]LST[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 44"]FOR[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 35"]AG[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 72"]GD[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 39"]PTS[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 41"]YEL[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 45"]RED[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 43"]GFC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196"]GivingItLaldy - DM's high tempo[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50"]34[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40"]10[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44"]148[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35"]58[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72"]90[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39"]108[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41"]100[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45"]7[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43"]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196"]Gatling Project update[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50"]32[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47"]7[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40"]11[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44"]134[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35"]67[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72"]67[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39"]103[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41"]39[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43"]22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196"]Mahluk Taktik v1[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50"]29[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40"]15[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44"]116[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35"]72[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72"]44[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39"]93[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41"]111[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45"]5[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43"]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196"]TFF DEVASTATOR V2[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50"]27[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40"]14[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44"]102[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35"]48[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72"]54[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39"]90[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41"]86[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
< [TABLE="width: 520"]
[TR]
[TD="class: et2, width: 196, align: general"]TACTIC[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 42, align: general"]PLD[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 50, align: general"]WON[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 47, align: general"]DRN[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 40, align: general"]LST[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 44, align: general"]FOR[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 35, align: general"]AG[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 72, align: general"]GD[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 39, align: general"]PTS[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 41, align: general"]YEL[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 45, align: general"]RED[/TD]
[TD="class: et2, width: 43, align: general"]GFC[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196, align: general"]GivingItLaldy - DM's high tempo[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42, align: general"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50, align: general"]34[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47, align: general"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40, align: general"]10[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44, align: general"]148[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35, align: general"]58[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72, align: general"]90[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39, align: general"]108[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41, align: general"]100[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45, align: general"]7[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43, align: general"]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196, align: general"]Gatling Project update[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42, align: general"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50, align: general"]32[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47, align: general"]7[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40, align: general"]11[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44, align: general"]134[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35, align: general"]67[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72, align: general"]67[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39, align: general"]103[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41, align: general"]39[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45, align: general"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43, align: general"]22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196, align: general"]Mr L 4-3-3 Shadow Ninjas[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42, align: general"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50, align: general"]29[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47, align: general"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40, align: general"]15[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44, align: general"]139[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35, align: general"]88[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72, align: general"]51[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39, align: general"]93[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41, align: general"]117[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45, align: general"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43, align: general"]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196, align: general"]Mahluk Taktik v1[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42, align: general"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50, align: general"]29[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47, align: general"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40, align: general"]15[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44, align: general"]116[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35, align: general"]72[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72, align: general"]44[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39, align: general"]93[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41, align: general"]111[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45, align: general"]5[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43, align: general"]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: et1, width: 196, align: general"]TFF DEVASTATOR V2[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 42, align: general"]50[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 50, align: general"]27[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 47, align: general"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 40, align: general"]14[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 44, align: general"]102[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 35, align: general"]48[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 72, align: general"]54[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 39, align: general"]90[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 41, align: general"]86[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 45, align: general"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: et1, width: 43, align: general"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Were PPM's removed for this new test? Or are they still there? Cause in my test I conceded 23 goals, as media prediction 7th, while in yours conceded a buttload with media prediction 2nd. That is a wild difference.
 
Mr Langvatn said:
Were PPM's removed for this new test? Or are they still there? Cause in my test I conceded 23 goals, as media prediction 7th, while in yours conceded a buttload with media prediction 2nd. That is a wild difference.
Click to expand...
no I dont remove PPM's as I want to create a realistic test environment and if I test without them a tactic may test well but not work aswell in a real save as nearly all players have PPM's in game.
 
Will1981 said:
no I dont remove PPM's as I want to create a realistic test environment and if I test without them a tactic may test well but not work aswell in a real save as nearly all players have PPM's in game.
Click to expand...

But PPM's override the settings in the tactic... In a real game you can control which PPM's you want to have... In your logic, almost all players have injuries in a real game too, so it is unrealistic to turn off injuries.

The whole point of a custom db is to remove all this randomness...
 
Last edited:
Here are the parameters set in my test. Which ones of these do you think lessens accuracy in relation to a "real" game?

1. Using the same savefile for every tactic tested (so they get the same schedule)

2. Used FMRTE to set all players’ age to 17 in order to have 40 available players. This is because I want every tactic to have the same chances in regard to player types.

3. All players are real players from the EPL with CA ranging from 135-145.

4. There are lots of different player types available, and several of each type.

5. Used FMRTE to freeze players fitness and morale to 100%, so that “bad luck” in one game doesn’t affect the next. Equal chance every match for every tactic.

6. Used FMRTE to set tactics to 100% fluid before the first league match.

7. Since the tactic test is set in the EPL, the test results are limited to that league. However, this is usually a pretty good indication anyway, since the EPL has a lot of different formations to face.

8. There are no team talks, as this is a random element that I want to omit.

9. Assistant manager does not do OI’s, as this is also a random element that I want to omit.

10. Removed all players’ preferred positions in the FM Editor, so that all tactics have an equal starting point.

11. Removed all players’ ppms in the FM Editor, also to make sure all tactics have an equal starting point.

12. Reputation of test team set to 7000, to resemble a mid-table / sub-top team in the EPL

13. Only testing one tactic at a time, to avoid tactics facing each other, as that would result in less accurate results for players who don't play online (like myself).

14. Used FMRTE to set the stat “injury proneness” to “1” for all players and all injuries chance to minimum in editor.
 
Last edited:
burnum's 4-3-3

Hey Will,

Could you test this 4-3-3? I tried out a bunch of tactics and this one is the only one enabling my striker massively (top scorer of Europe).

This tactic isn't found on these forums but here.

View attachment 202872
 
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