The Anfield Saga

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lol, talk about being backed by big players, cant really get much bigger than that

This is massive. I mean truly massive. CIC and SAFE have been buying up shares for a couple of years now after Brown went to China and asked them to start investing in Britain. But they've stayed well under the radar. It's why I didn't think it would be CIC. Just made no sense for them to abandon their policy of the past few years - my ex said exactly the same thing - they got their fingers burned in the States and took a lot of flak as a result, so they were lying low and making relatively small investments all over the shop.

Need to get hold of The Times' article to check the details. But if those are his backers, I'm wondering how Kirdi's plans for solar panels and free electricity for Liverpool are actually going to stack against it....
 
The Chinese Government is the mystery backer behind a bid for Liverpool Football Club, The Times can reveal.

China’s overseas investment arm China Investment Corporation (CIC), which already owns a stake in Canary Wharf, is funding the bid fronted by the sports tycoon Kenny Huang for one of Britain’s biggest sporting names.

The debt-laden club is expected to change hands this month and last night the Chinese appeared to be in pole position to win a three-way takeover battle. The other bidders are a wealthy Kuwaiti family and an American private equity group.

Liverpool’s lender, the Royal Bank of Scotland, forced the club’s unpopular American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, to put it up for sale in April. A number of potential foreign buyers have been circling, but until now the role of the Communist Government was unknown.

The acquisition would be just a tiny piece of China’s vast global investment plan. CIC was created in 2007 to invest billions of dollars for the benefit of the State. The country has been able to stockpile nearly $2 trillion of foreign currency reserves because it exports many more billions of pounds of goods and services than it imports. CIC has $332 billion to spend abroad.

The fund already has stakes in natural resources and energy companies in Asia, the US and Africa as part of China’s long-term strategy of securing its energy supplies. Liverpool would be its first football club and a high-profile entry into British cultural life.

Neither CIC nor Mr Huang was available for comment last night, but insiders said that CIC would end up owning the majority of the club if the consortium’s planned bid — which values Liverpool at between £300 million and £350 million — is successful.

China is not the first foreign country to covet English Premier League teams. Arsenal, Aston Villa, Birmingham, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester United, Manchester City and Sunderland are all in foreign hands.

Manchester City, which is owned by Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyan, a senior member of the Royal Family in Abu Dhabi, and Chelsea, owned by the Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich, were bought as trophy assets. The owners have poured in money without seeking a profit.

It is believed that the Chinese would expect to make money by building a bigger stadium in Merseyside and developing the club’s Asian fan base.

Liverpool already has a sponsorship deal with the bank Standard Chartered, which focuses on Asia. Presenting the bank’s half-year results yesterday, Peter Sands, its chief executive, said that its sponsorship of Liverpool was the most cost-effective way of getting Standard Chartered’s name on to television screens across Asia.

The sale is being run by Barcap, Barclays’ investment banking arm, and Martin Broughton, chairman of British Airways, who was brought in as temporary chairman of the club in April.

Insiders said that it was a three-way contest between the Chinese, Rhône Capital, a private equity group, and the billionare al-Kharafi family of Kuwait.

Any buyer must be cleared by the Premier League, which has held talks with the bidders. The main test is financial and it is unlikely that a bid would be blocked from the cash-rich Chinese.

Mr Huang reiterated his interest in Liverpool through his PR firm Hill & Knowlton yesterday but said that he had yet to make a formal binding bid.

-------

Huang set to give Hodgson £150m vote of confidence

Tony Barrett, Tony Evans
Updated 21 minutes ago

Roy Hodgson will keep his job as Liverpool manager and be handed £150 million to spend on new players if the Chinese Government’s bid to buy the club proves successful.

As revealed in The Times today, Kenny Huang, the Hong Kong-based businessman, is fronting the bid by China Investment Corporation (CIC), the overseas investment arm of the Chinese Government. A formal offer has still to be lodged, but although there is interest from other parties, Huang — backed by the wealth of one of the fastest-growing economies in the world — is believed to be the front-runner to complete a purchase.

CIC is prepared to back Hodgson by bankrolling a number of high-profile signings and has made a commitment to build a new stadium.

Liverpool are also attracting interest from the Rhône Group, the New York-based fund management firm, and the al-Kharafi family from Kuwait. Yahya Kirdi, a Canadian-based businessman from Syria, claimed yesterday that he is close to finalising a deal, but it is understood that he is negotiating only with George Gillett Jr, the club’s co-owner, and has not been involved with RBS, which holds Liverpool’s £237 million debt, or Barclays Capital, the investment bank overseeing the sale.

After his appointment as the successor to Rafael Benítez in July, Hodgson said that the possibility of a takeover had been a factor in discussions before he signed a three-year contract and revealed that clauses had been inserted in the deal affording him financial protection in the event of new owners deciding to replace him as manager.

The Chinese, though, have no desire to dispose of the 62-year-old, who insists that the situation has not prevented him from going about his job in the right manner.

“I knew when I came to the club that a takeover may or may not come about, that it may come about quickly or it may take a lot of time,” Hodgson said. “But I was given assurances that I would be allowed to do the job in the right way and that’s certainly been the case since I’ve been here.”

Asked would it be easier for the club to plan ahead under new owners, he said: “That’s for sure. But I don’t want to go down the ownership route because I don’t know enough about it, apart from knowing that, at the moment, unfortunately the owners we have are very unpopular with the fans. They know it and that is why they are prepared to sell the club.”

Hodgson takes charge of Liverpool at Anfield for the first time tonight when his team take a 2-0 lead into the second leg of the Europa League third qualifying round tie with Rabotnicki, of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. The manager is not willing to allow either himself or his players to hide behind the uncertainty surrounding the club, and insists that they must be masters of their own fortune.

Fernando Torres, who pledged his commitment to Liverpool yesterday, had recently called on the club to match his ambition by signing “four or five” top-class players, but Hodgson says that it is the responsibility of those already at the club to shape the future.

“As a player you have the chance to change things,” Hodgson said. “If you don’t think the team is doing as well as it should, as a player you can do something about it. If you are a big player, maybe you will. My attitude is that we want our big players because they are big players and they will help the team to win.

“Now if they are not playing well and not helping the team to win, I will be advising them to look into the mirror rather than look for excuses elsewhere and blame the owners for not having spent £500 million.

“I am just sceptical about comments where players are questioning the club’s ambition.”
 
This is massive. I mean truly massive. CIC and SAFE have been buying up shares for a couple of years now after Brown went to China and asked them to start investing in Britain. But they've stayed well under the radar. It's why I didn't think it would be CIC. Just made no sense for them to abandon their policy of the past few years - my ex said exactly the same thing - they got their fingers burned in the States and took a lot of flak as a result, so they were lying low and making relatively small investments all over the shop.

Need to get hold of The Times' article to check the details. But if those are his backers, I'm wondering how Kirdi's plans for solar panels and free electricity for Liverpool are actually going to stack against it....

Zeb, are you positive it;s CIC?
i've just read a similar article, but how reliable this article and source is i don't know?
also, huang has denied making a formal bid? true or pr stunt?
 
This is massive. I mean truly massive. CIC and SAFE have been buying up shares for a couple of years now after Brown went to China and asked them to start investing in Britain. But they've stayed well under the radar. It's why I didn't think it would be CIC. Just made no sense for them to abandon their policy of the past few years - my ex said exactly the same thing - they got their fingers burned in the States and took a lot of flak as a result, so they were lying low and making relatively small investments all over the shop.

Need to get hold of The Times' article to check the details. But if those are his backers, I'm wondering how Kirdi's plans for solar panels and free electricity for Liverpool are actually going to stack against it....
liverpool does make good sense to invest in though, a big historical club, massive fanbase, good potential for growth, in a decent position to challenge for a title with a few additions. its a good time to move in on them

love to see how H & G trying and stall this one...

---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------

Zeb, are you positive it;s CIC?
i've just read a similar article, but how reliable this article and source is i don't know?
also, huang has denied making a formal bid? true or pr stunt?
its the front page of the times.
 
Zeb, are you positive it;s CIC?

i've just read a similar article, but how reliable this article and source is i don't know?

Spot on mate about that. I'm not positive of anything. But if it isn't CIC then it'll be shown up this week when the PL does its financial test. The article still has no direct quotes so it could well be spin to blow away any other potential bidders. But Huang's going to get absolutely creamed long before a formal bid is lodged if he isn't backed by CIC.

----

@madsheep - also makes sense given that CIC will get positive responses from the Chinese themselves after all the criticisms. Amazed more than anything though. Their business plan would be really interesting to read. On past standards, they'd be looking at c.10% return every year on investment. Can that be funded solely through Asian market share dominance? Or is this China's big vanity purchase in Britain?
 
Spot on mate about that. I'm not positive of anything. But if it isn't CIC then it'll be shown up this week when the PL does its financial test. The article still has no direct quotes so it could well be spin to blow away any other potential bidders. But Huang's going to get absolutely creamed long before a formal bid is lodged if he isn't backed by CIC.

----

@madsheep - also makes sense given that CIC will get positive responses from the Chinese themselves after all the criticisms. Amazed more than anything though. Their business plan would be really interesting to read. On past standards, they'd be looking at c.10% return every year on investment. Can that be funded solely through Asian market share dominance? Or is this China's big vanity purchase in Britain?
i suspect a bit of both to your questions, there is a great fan base to exploit in china with a very marketable name. and its another way for china stamp their name on something else in the world. in terms of football clubs, you cant do much better than owning liverpool

its not all through yet, but how things can change in a few weeks
 
liverpool does make good sense to invest in though, a big historical club, massive fanbase, good potential for growth, in a decent position to challenge for a title with a few additions. its a good time to move in on them

love to see how H & G trying and stall this one...

---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------


its the front page of the times.

I know it is mate, but still, how reliable are papers? :/

and front page, don't you mean back? :P
 
I know it is mate, but still, how reliable are papers? :/

and front page, don't you mean back? :P
yeah i know what you mean, but the times are reliable for what its worth in the newspaper industry

lol no its on the actual front page
 
yeah i know what you mean, but the times are reliable for what its worth in the newspaper industry

lol no its on the actual front page

haha, must be big news then...
still, Huang turned round today and said he'd made no formal bid? :/
and they're no actual proof that CIC are the backers, like quotes etc etc.
so as a liverpool fan, i'm a little bit skeptical... :(
 
i suspect a bit of both to your questions, there is a great fan base to exploit in china with a very marketable name. and its another way for china stamp their name on something else in the world. in terms of football clubs, you cant do much better than owning liverpool

its not all through yet, but how things can change in a few weeks

It's interesting. Especially given how other sports teams' plans are also based on growth in the Asian market in order to retain profitability. If it does turn out, this might have a huge domino effect on other clubs.

-----

retrodude - the journalists who've put that article up (tony evans and tony barrett) are pretty much as good as it gets for information on the club (throw in rory smith at the telegraph too as he's a good lad). Both get **** thrown at them from some sections of the fanbase, but as far as their information is reliable, they are reliable.

But you're right to point this out. After all, Huang himself said:

"There has been much speculation and commentary from a wide array of people, many of whom have little knowledge of the facts. Unless there is a statement that specifically comes from Mr. Huang or his authorised representatives, which presently is solely Hill & Knowlton Hong Kong office, we would suggest such comments should be given little credence."

---------- Post added at 12:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 AM ----------

The Chinese fund represented by Kenny Huang has spent the past fortnight raising precisely the amount of cash required to finance a bid for Liverpool. Sources have confirmed to Digger that the China Investment Corporation, the sovereign-wealth fund to the world's most populous nation, is the organisation being fronted by Huang, who yesterday admitted interest in bidding for Liverpool.

In a series of trades since 19 July, CIC has sold $558m of shares in Morgan Stanley, equating to £351.4m. That sum is equivalent to Liverpool's debt to the nearest decimal place, and is exactly the number insiders say has been quoted to interested parties as the sale price.

China Daily, the English-language arm of the Chinese state media, reported yesterday: "China Investment Corp, the Chinese sovereign wealth fund that bought a 9.9% stake in Morgan Stanley in 2007, sold $90.5m of shares in the investment bank on 30 July, bringing the total amount divested in the last two weeks to about $558m."

Although sovereign-wealth funds have enormous values of assets under management, cash is generally tied up in equity and bond markets. This requires liquidation by share sales before major new investments can be made. It is therefore hugely significant that the £351.4m number is also equivalent to Liverpool's debt, suggesting that CIC is shifting its assets ahead of an offer for the five-times European Cup winners.

It also indicates that despite the ambitions of the Anfield club's chairman, Martin Broughton, to generate a return for Tom Hicks and George Gillett, China is refusing to reward them for their three-and-a half-year ownership of the club. The Americans' capacity to dictate terms is further reduced by the fact that there are few other credible bidders preparing to compete with Huang and CIC.

Even those involved in the sale process have dismissed the announcement yesterday from Yahya Kirdi, the former Syrian footballer with business links in Canada, of his intention to compete with Huang for Liverpool. Kirdi has previously talked of his interest but is said not to have meaningfully pursued it, but his interest could raise the price that current owners are looking for. The Rhone Group has also re-emerged as a possible interested party. But although it is regarded as being financially capable of mounting a bid, the private equity firm has come to the table before, having looked at a minority-stake investment in March. But it did not go through with the deal.

Huang confirmed for the first time yesterday he had contacted Liverpool's brokers in the sale – who together are Broughton and Barclays's investment-banking division, Barcap – to "register interest". He did state he "has made no formal bid", however CIC's cash-raising exercise demonstrates it is in a position to make an approach at any time.

In that event the red half of Merseyside might be concerned about the impact of direct investment from the Chinese government in their club. But in anticipation of negative reaction to its world-wide investment activities, CIC's website states: "CIC strives to contribute to the prosperity and development of local economies.

It adds: "CIC usually does not seek an active role in the companies in which it invests nor attempts to influence those companies' operations. CIC seeks long-term, stable, sustainable, and risk-adjusted return."

Although the message of prudence, at a time when CIC's dumping of £531.4m of Morgan Stanley shares has conspicuously not generated any money for transfer activity, might dishearten fans, it should not be interpreted as a lack of team investment. CIC would be purchasing a debt-free club and would be capable of taking out smaller, more affordable loans to finance team strengthening this summer.

And after the years of chaos associated with the unsustainable debt run up under Hicks and Gillett, that would no doubt be a welcome relief to Liverpool fans, as will the fact CIC is happy with Roy Hodgson being the manager.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/aug/05/china-liverpool-ownership-fund
 
I must say Zeb, that the guardian article you've just posted,
fills me with confidence a little, due to the fact that CIC have just sold shares in Morgan Stanley for the exact same figure that has (suposedly) been quoted as the asking price for the club;

whether thats true or not, who knows...
 
I must say Zeb, that the guardian article you've just posted,
fills me with confidence a little, due to the fact that CIC have just sold shares in Morgan Stanley for the exact same figure that has (suposedly) been quoted as the asking price for the club;

whether thats true or not, who knows...

Only time will tell lad.
 
I must say Zeb, that the guardian article you've just posted,
fills me with confidence a little, due to the fact that CIC have just sold shares in Morgan Stanley for the exact same figure that has (suposedly) been quoted as the asking price for the club;

whether thats true or not, who knows...

Yeah. There's a good article in the Independant too which explains stuff really well too: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...d-favourite-with-liverpool-board-2043469.html

So it might be true. We'll see.

If it is, the guardian article's bit about taking out loans to buy new players is interesting. Not really worried as such, but not keen on that. On the other hand, it would hopefully indicate that truly dumb spending wouldn't happen although they'd only have two weeks and then January to properly throw money about before the new financial regulations come into place.

We'll see what happens. Priority is Hicks and Gillett out though. They have to be removed. Whoever buys us will definitely be better than them but it won't happen unless Hicks and Gillett are forced out - and they'll kick and scream all the way out.
 
Is it me, or is all this sounding too good to be true? There has to be some sort of catch somewhere, probably written in fine-print. :P

Anyway, from what I can understand from that article, this potential takeover won't really make us the richest clubs in the world, per se. Only that we have a wealthy owner. Unless CIC start pouring big money into the club's balance immediately after their takeover, the club's value is still more or less the same, right? "£330 billion to spend abroad...." covers a rather large area. Out of that, how much they're willing to invest in one football club is yet to be seen.
 
Is it me, or is all this sounding too good to be true? There has to be some sort of catch somewhere, probably written in fine-print. :P

Anyway, from what I can understand from that article, this potential takeover won't really make us the richest clubs in the world, per se. Only that we have a wealthy owner. Unless CIC start pouring big money into the club's balance immediately after their takeover, the club's value is still more or less the same, right? "£330 billion to spend abroad...." covers a rather large area. Out of that, how much they're willing to invest in one football club is yet to be seen.

From what they've released tonight, and if it's accurate, what's happening is that CIC are providing a 'loan' to Huang's group. They'll use this loan to clear all Liverpool's existing debts.

They'll then take out cheaper loans (H&G are having to pay very high interest rates because they're broke and keep failing to pay back the money they lent) to buy new players. They'll then have a bit of extra money to start the new stadium, and that should pay for itself (so kind of like how Arsenal have done it - not exactly but similar in many ways).

Their plan seems to be based in the short-term on increasing the money Liverpool makes in Asia. So club merchandise (the home Gerrard number 8 is a very popular shirt in China already - my ex sends me nice packets of green tea in exchange for one every season, although this season it's had to stop), and online television rights. This would be where the 'interest' on the initial loan will be paid from in the form of dividends to CIC.

But because CIC is so wealthy and it's not actually a loan with defined targets for repayment, it means that there's no pressure to pay dividends. So a bad year wouldn't be a disaster, if more money needed to be spent then it could be.

It's sane and rational if their numbers add up and this is true. And if it goes **** up, we won't actually have massive interest payments to meet which must be paid or we go bust like we do now because dividends are only ever paid out of profits. So we'd be a normal club again and just hoping that the board and manager aren't incompetent rather than worrying about whether the club will go out of existance :)
 
From what they've released tonight, and if it's accurate, what's happening is that CIC are providing a 'loan' to Huang's group. They'll use this loan to clear all Liverpool's existing debts.

They'll then take out cheaper loans (H&G are having to pay very high interest rates because they're broke and keep failing to pay back the money they lent) to buy new players. They'll then have a bit of extra money to start the new stadium, and that should pay for itself (so kind of like how Arsenal have done it - not exactly but similar in many ways).

Their plan seems to be based in the short-term on increasing the money Liverpool makes in Asia. So club merchandise (the home Gerrard number 8 is a very popular shirt in China already - my ex sends me nice packets of green tea in exchange for one every season, although this season it's had to stop), and online television rights. This would be where the 'interest' on the initial loan will be paid from in the form of dividends to CIC.

But because CIC is so wealthy and it's not actually a loan with defined targets for repayment, it means that there's no pressure to pay dividends. So a bad year wouldn't be a disaster, if more money needed to be spent then it could be.

It's sane and rational if their numbers add up and this is true. And if it goes **** up, we won't actually have massive interest payments to meet which must be paid or we go bust like we do now because dividends are only ever paid out of profits. So we'd be a normal club again and just hoping that the board and manager aren't incompetent rather than worrying about whether the club will go out of existance :)
That sounds good to me :)
 
After speaking to a few liverpool fans on here, They all want big massive Billionaires to take over so we can go and do a city and make mass amounts for players like Messi, Inesta, Silva, etc,

Tbh id take my local kabab shop owner right now, anything to get Purslow, Hicks, Gillet out.
 
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