The Arsenal Thread

[Vanjagl]

Not people. One guy. Because he spins around and talk the same thing over and over. People are lazy and only see what they want to see. If you were half arsed about 'me ignoring other people' you would look at previous pages and see that's not the case. ****, even read what I wrote in the post you're quoting.
Second, how is my statement that I don't find Wenger world class flaming comment? I'll write this again. He hasn't win **** for 8 years. He stayed with Arsenal when he could have gone to richer clubs like PSG and win trophies due numerous reasons, but he didn't. Props to him and his philosophy. But that doesn't make him top top manager. He needs to win trophies constantly, every few years. Maybe, just maybe even to be competitive for domestic title. But he failed to do so. Yes, there are many reasons why he probably didn't do better, but that's football for you.

Fair point if you think Wenger is world class manager. I have no issues with that. But I find it amazing how one argument works for Wenger, but doesn't work for other managers.

Someone said Moyes is ****. Lets compare Moyes and Wenger. Lets compere both Everton and Arsenal. If Moyes managed to stabilize Everton and got them in top half of the table on consistent basis with almost no transfer founds, how is he **** when Wenger did basically the same with Arsenal? He stabilized them in top4 with pennies considering how much money did Liverpool, City and Chelsea spent. Yet he thinks Moyes is ****, but Wenger is world class.

 

[TheFalse9]

Not people. One guy. Because he spins around and talk the same thing over and over. People are lazy and only see what they want to see. If you were half arsed about 'me ignoring other people' you would look at previous pages and see that's not the case. ****, even read what I wrote in the post you're quoting.
Second, how is my statement that I don't find Wenger world class flaming comment? I'll write this again. He hasn't win **** for 8 years. He stayed with Arsenal when he could have gone to richer clubs like PSG and win trophies due numerous reasons, but he didn't. Props to him and his philosophy. But that doesn't make him top top manager. He needs to win trophies constantly, every few years. Maybe, just maybe even to be competitive for domestic title. But he failed to do so. Yes, there are many reasons why he probably didn't do better, but that's football for you.

Fair point if you think Wenger is world class manager. I have no issues with that. But I find it amazing how one argument works for Wenger, but doesn't work for other managers.

Someone said Moyes is ****. Lets compare Moyes and Wenger. Lets compere both Everton and Arsenal. If Moyes managed to stabilize Everton and got them in top half of the table on consistent basis with almost no transfer founds, how is he **** when Wenger did basically the same with Arsenal? He stabilized them in top4 with pennies considering how much money did Liverpool, City and Chelsea spent. Yet he thinks Moyes is ****, but Wenger is world class.

Lazy? I'm not the one who's been recycling the statement 'Wenger's got no trophies' in all of my posts, despite great evidence to the contrary. And although no-one's mentioned Moyes in this thread, the reason he's not world-class (or at least it can argued that way) is because he's won no trophies; and Wenger has. Having said that, no-one's said Moyes is **** in this thread, so it's irrelevant.




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[Vanjagl]

Lazy? I'm not the one who's been recycling the statement 'Wenger's got no trophies' in all of my posts, despite great evidence to the contrary. And although no-one's mentioned Moyes in this thread, the reason he's not world-class (or at least it can argued that way) is because he's won no trophies; and Wenger has. Having said that, no-one's said Moyes is **** in this thread, so it's irrelevant.


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Yes, he was lazy. As were you:

Because your 9th, you have a **** midfield and an awful manager.

My main argument is Wenger hasn't win trophy in last 8 years. He wasn't even challenging for the league trophy ( bar one season me thinks). So I should ditch that fact? Should I ditch the fact Liverpool haven't win league in last 20 something years and recognize they are best team in England? If you think Wenger is WC, I have no issues with it. I can accept it and move on. People disagree all the time and thats pretty much what makes the world spinning. Question is, can you accept other people opinions?

 

[Scotty98TR]

My main argument is Wenger hasn't win trophy in last 8 years. He wasn't even challenging for the league trophy ( bar one season me thinks). So I should ditch that fact? Should I ditch the fact Liverpool haven't win league in last 20 something years and recognize they are best team in England? If you think Wenger is WC, I have no issues with it. I can accept it and move on. People disagree all the time and thats pretty much what makes the world spinning.

Not including this season, Arsenal have been very close to winning the title in atleast 3 of the seasons since we last won the league (04/05, 07/08, 10/11). In all of those seasons it was only really between us and the eventual champions.

And going back to your earlier post (#14409), it is much harder to get into the top 4 than it is to repeatedly finish mid-table though. Not to mention the fact Wenger has won 2 doubles, got to a Champions League Final and FINISHED A SEASON UNBEATEN! Moyes has yet to win a trophy of note.

Question is, can you accept other people opinions?

Not sure if that was aimed at me or TheFalse9, but if at me, then I definitely can accept other peoples opinions. But I want to have a discussion and debate about them. If everyone just accepted people opinions and moved on, the world would be a very boring place.

 

[Vanjagl]

Not including this season, Arsenal have been very close to winning the title in atleast 3 of the seasons since we last won the league (04/05, 07/08, 10/11). In all of those seasons it was only really between us and the eventual champions.

And going back to your earlier post (#14409), it is much harder to get into the top 4 than it is to repeatedly finish mid-table though. Not to mention the fact Wenger has won 2 doubles, got to a Champions League Final and FINISHED A SEASON UNBEATEN! Moyes has yet to win a trophy of note.



Not sure if that was aimed at me or TheFalse9, but if at me, then I definitely can accept other peoples opinions. But I want to have a discussion and debate about them. If everyone just accepted people opinions and moved on, the world would be a very boring place.

I'm not saying Moyes is better, he's clearly not. But I did find funny that one thing works for Wenger, but it doesn't work for other (consistency). I think you don't mean Moyes is awful, you just tried to prove something. Moyes won Charity Shield, if that can be considered a cup, but it doesn't make him equal to Wenger.

It was aimed towards everybody. We all have hard time accepting other opinions. Not to mention accepting we were wrong. When I (think I saw it) see it, I just stop discussion and move on. I honestly don't intend repeating myself over and over, mainly because it's boring. I gave you (plural) my arguments, you didn't accept them, thats fine for me.

 

[Montanaro]

If this stuff isn't cleaned up soon, I'll ask a moderator to do it for you guys.

 

[rephlex]

If this stuff isn't cleaned up soon, I'll ask a moderator to do it for you guys.

Whilst I agree it is sometimes done in poor taste, discussing what makes one "great" is certainly something which is interesting when it comes to Arsenal FC. You look at the problems amongst the fan base during the "lean years" (still ongoing..), where there is a fundamental pressure on Wenger to leave or be thrown out because he has taken a club which was challenging for honours year-in, year-out domestically, and has slowly slipped down the packing order. With every uninspiring signing and "bargain", you wonder exactly how the club will climb back up again - and at that point his reputation is the crucial reason everyone is giving him time and patience - his record.

It is only right for top clubs in the world (Draxler mentions us in the same breath as Chelsea, Utd, Bayern, Barca and Real Madrid for example! Despite not having won anything for nine years in 2014) to invest and have the highest standards, and I do see it as a pretty depressing state of affairs that the club has not been able to consistently invest in quality. But Wenger's attacking football philosophy is enjoyable (when it works), and even looking at the likes of Mourinho at Chelsea with their unlimited resources at least tells you that it is not always about money and assembling top talent three deep, it is about that drive to win.

Perhaps Van's point in a roundabout way was to question that drive to push himself and his team across that fine hurdle, to be able to be "content" with CL qualification when actually the club's situation was that they could probably not push any further, is in my eyes Wenger showing loyalty to the club and wanting to show that he will still guide the team when they are having difficult years as well as the bountiful ones. PSG supposedly wanted him, Barca were meant to be curious about his availability once Vilanova left.. he's at that top table, certainly, but I'd agree that for him to be truly great, to be remembered in the pantheon of "world class" managers he has to get back to winning ways. Only Arsenal fans with good memories will remember what he has actually done for the club, and rivals tend to (rightly) play ignorant for the sake of a bit of banter by heaping pressure on him to actually break that constant hoodoo of falling at the final hurdle.

 

[rephlex]

Oh dear, our Feb/March fixture run is absolutely shocking:

Liverpool A
Man Utd H
Bayern Munich H
Sunderland H
Stoke A
FA Cup QF
Bayern Munich A
Tottenham Hotspur A
Chelsea A
Man City H

 

[TJD07]

Oh dear, our Feb/March fixture run is absolutely shocking:

Liverpool A
Man Utd H
Bayern Munich H
Sunderland H
Stoke A
FA Cup QF
Bayern Munich A
Tottenham Hotspur A
Chelsea A
Man City H

What a brutal run of games.

 

[Ap0rd]

Haha what. Mertesacker was already an 80+ cap international by the time Arsenal bought him. He hasn't got any better or any worse, he's as good as he ever was, which is to say very good.

The whole "they don't build talent they buy it and thus it won't work long term" is sound until you realise that Arsenal have won nothing in nearly a decade and in the same time period Chelsea - another club who did what City are doing now - have won three league titles, quite a few domestic cups and both the CL and Europa League. Even if City's approach doesn't work long term, there's no evidence to suggest that Arsenal's way is any more effective.

Hey you should look at what Barcelona did 2 years ago with homegrown players. And they're arguably still playing the best football in the world. Look, Wenger literally transforms players. Did you ever hear about Giroud when he was a Ligue 2 player? I don't think so. City can buy wonderkids but they can't help them realise their potential, and a good example is Balotelli.

 

[Ap0rd]

Oh dear, our Feb/March fixture run is absolutely shocking:

Liverpool A
Man Utd H
Bayern Munich H
Sunderland H
Stoke A
FA Cup QF
Bayern Munich A
Tottenham Hotspur A
Chelsea A
Man City H

We'll sure need to rotate...

 

[Ap0rd]

Arsenal signed Mertesacker and made him better player same way City signed Silva, Aguero, Kompany, Zabaleta and made them better players.

They were sure already good players, unless Man City pays 40 mil for an Aguero who didn't reach his potential yet...

 

[Scotty98TR]

If this stuff isn't cleaned up soon, I'll ask a moderator to do it for you guys.

Why? Surely the whole point of a forum, especially threads like this, is about discussion?

 

[Montanaro]

Why? Surely the whole point of a forum, especially threads like this, is about discussion?

Is that what that was? ...

/end

---

For speculation sake...is it possible (probable?) for Wenger to swoon Suarez to join us in January? He's doing great and so is Liverpool...but he still wants Champions League. He's not competition tied, so we could bring him in and sweet talk him by saying he could be the key piece that pushes Arsenal past Bayern. Certainly would be something to consider, no?

 

[Vanjagl]

Is that what that was? ...

/end

---

For speculation sake...is it possible (probable?) for Wenger to swoon Suarez to join us in January? He's doing great and so is Liverpool...but he still wants Champions League. He's not competition tied, so we could bring him in and sweet talk him by saying he could be the key piece that pushes Arsenal past Bayern. Certainly would be something to consider, no?

Would cost a bomb. 50m + for sure. Maybe even 60 cuz they are challenging for title, at least in this moment.

 

[TJD07]

Is that what that was? ...

/end

---

For speculation sake...is it possible (probable?) for Wenger to swoon Suarez to join us in January? He's doing great and so is Liverpool...but he still wants Champions League. He's not competition tied, so we could bring him in and sweet talk him by saying he could be the key piece that pushes Arsenal past Bayern. Certainly would be something to consider, no?

Expect to pay 60m for him, Liverpool aren't exactly playing badly at the moment and depending on what they do in Jan they could improve more. Plus he's in contract talks at the moment which will double his wages.

 

[Mike.]

Oh dear, our Feb/March fixture run is absolutely shocking:

Liverpool A
Man Utd H
Bayern Munich H
Sunderland H
Stoke A
FA Cup QF
Bayern Munich A
Tottenham Hotspur A
Chelsea A
Man City H

The choke is on...

 

[Mike.]

Hey you should look at what Barcelona did 2 years ago with homegrown players. And they're arguably still playing the best football in the world. Look, Wenger literally transforms players. Did you ever hear about Giroud when he was a Ligue 2 player? I don't think so. City can buy wonderkids but they can't help them realise their potential, and a good example is Balotelli.

Wenger has not transformed Giroud....

 

[Tyton]

You could argue he transformed the whole team this season, tbh.

Although, simply not losing team captain in summer window certainly helps a great deal...

 

[Aannddyy]

Hey you should look at what Barcelona did 2 years ago with homegrown players. And they're arguably still playing the best football in the world. Look, Wenger literally transforms players. Did you ever hear about Giroud when he was a Ligue 2 player? I don't think so. City can buy wonderkids but they can't help them realise their potential, and a good example is Balotelli.

No!? But when Montpellier won the league with him as top scorer.. He raised quite a few heads. Hence why Wenger signed him.. Which makes your statement pointless.