The Arsenal Thread

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Might be time for The Professor to go, but some of the flak he gets is ridicolous. The guy safely steered Arsenal through the transformation into self-sufficient modern club, got it out of crippling debt and kept it competitive for well over a decade vs. 3 teams with virtually unlimited resources.

Obviously people want trophies and that's fine, but you can't argue that what he pulled off isn't impressive as ****. There is just one - one - team in whole of Europe that manages the same thing, and that's Bayern. Meditate on that for a minute.
 
I don't see how a player can decline like that in a couple f weeks like that. He's just out of form. Looking at our squad, Alexis, Ozil, Cazorla and Koscielny are definate world class. I might even add Walcott to that list if you look at his goal assist return before injury. It was even better than Marco Reus' s. Ramsey and Wilshere are close to world class without question is they both avoid injuries. Gibbs can also reach Ashley Cole's level. If Gibbs wasn't injury prone then I think that he would be one of the best in the world. Debuchy, Podolski, Mertesacker, Arteta and Giroud are very good international players. Oxlade-Chamberlain is a no brainer for world class soon. Sanogo is a wildcard and I'm still not sure about Welbeck. Monreal is just a good backup. Campbell is again a bit of a wildcard. Gnabry will be wc some day imo. Flamini is just average and Chambers is a potential world class.
Father time catches up with us all eventually I think it has on the both I mentioned, still good players but will never be at there best. I would say only Sanchez and Ozil are world class, Corzola and KOS are defo not wold class even Walcott. I will give the 1st 2 but not the other 3 no chance world class. Very good yes! Gibbs will never reach Coles level and is no where near on of the best FBs in world fooball. Arteta has had it and Giroud I like and think he underated by some, good STR imo. Welbeck will never be top class just not consistent enough in front of goal. Podolski and Debuchy good players, while Podolski is wasted on the bench! Will have to see about Campbell and Sanogo and Gnarbry. I think Ox will see more of the bench than not tbh when Ozil,Sanchez,Walcott are all fit, someone is gonna be unhappy sat on the bench anyway.
 
Koscielny is one of the best cb's in the last 10 years imo. Who would you say is a world class centre back in the world? Cazorla could be defined on the edge of world class. He starts for Spain.
 
Koscielny is one of the best cb's in the last 10 years imo. Who would you say is a world class centre back in the world? Cazorla could be defined on the edge of world class. He starts for Spain.

Woah.. Arsenal players and Overrated are the most synced words.

If you compare the CBs who played in the last 10 years Kos is nowhere near them.

Maldini, Nesta, Cannavaro, Rio, Vidic, Puyol, Lucio, Samuel, Chiellini, Thiago Silva, Terry, Carvalho, Campbell and I'm sure there are many I have missed.
 
Sol Campbell was never world class imo. If Koscielny were in that invincibles team, he'd be remembered as one of the greatest in history.
 
I was talking about Arsenal's defenders.

Didn't know that.

Sol Campbell was never world class imo. If Koscielny were in that invincibles team, he'd be remembered as one of the greatest in history.

This is just wrong and the last point is just ridiculous. Sol Cambell was one of the best CB in PL era and has a strong claim to be in the PL best 11.
 
I'm not denying that he's one of the greatest. Mentally sand physically strong as well as very consistent. What I'm saying is that Koscielny is better in terms of raw talent imo. More athletic than Campbell, agressive, brave, great tackler and easily the best 1 on 1 defender in the league.
 
Woah.. Arsenal players and Overrated are the most synced words.

If you compare the CBs who played in the last 10 years Kos is nowhere near them.

Maldini, Nesta, Cannavaro, Rio, Vidic, Puyol, Lucio, Samuel, Chiellini, Thiago Silva, Terry, Carvalho, Campbell and I'm sure there are many I have missed.

What a stupid comparision. None of the currently active players are even close in quality to most of the guys you listed when they were at peak of their careers. Its not even a contest.

Put up a list of active players and see where does Koscielny feature. My guess it he would easily make it to top 10 at least.
 
Lol

"We were a bit young at the back and defending is a job for older people" - Arsene Wenger, spender of £16m on a 19-year-old defender.
 
What a stupid comparision. None of the currently active players are even close in quality to most of the guys you listed when they were at peak of their careers. Its not even a contest.

Put up a list of active players and see where does Koscielny feature. My guess it he would easily make it to top 10 at least.

He said one of the best CBs in the last 10 years so why should I leave out retired players or players who declined but were amazing in the last 10 years?

Even I list active players there are many who are ahead of him. Players like Sergio Ramos are dismissed easily here but he is excellent defender, so even if I list we don't agree with it.
 
Kos is great defender but has his flaws, he needs a calm partner and he gets away too many penalties, he also isn't tallest or strongest defender around, but I think when it comes purely to defending, marking, making tackles and interceptions, there are few defenders that are better or could match him. The way he kept Sturridge and Suarez quiet last season was amazing.
But tell me, are Mertesacker and Koscielny suited for high defensive line? I think they are not.
Damola, you clearly have other definition for world class. Arteta, Cazorla, Mertesacker and Podolski are hardly in their country's first 11, not sure when Arteta was called up last time. Theo is good and his stats are great but he's quite limited, I wouln't define him as world class.
Might be time for The Professor to go, but some of the flak he gets is ridicolous. The guy safely steered Arsenal through the transformation into self-sufficient modern club, got it out of crippling debt and kept it competitive for well over a decade vs. 3 teams with virtually unlimited resources.

Obviously people want trophies and that's fine, but you can't argue that what he pulled off isn't impressive as ****. There is just one - one - team in whole of Europe that manages the same thing, and that's Bayern. Meditate on that for a minute.
He did, and he deserves credit, the team was great, budget was tight and he was able to develop players. but he failed to evolve. Modern football is different, you have to rotate players, be tactically flexible, use substitutions cleverly. Our trademarks, developing young players and playing nice football are gone IMO. All youngsters are bought, our own get a chance only in cups or if all first team players are injured. His signings are not the best too recently, Squillaci, Chu Young, André Santos, Gervinho, Flamini, Sanogo, Källström, Viviano. Those are/were just deadwood, never good enough for us (ok, Gervinho was great at Lille, but failed to replicate his form here). And apart from tight work with finances Wenger doesn't have enough work to offer. I'd like to keep him at club in some position, like DoF, he has a lot of experience that will definitely be useful, but he shouln't manage anymore.
 
I'm not denying that he's one of the greatest. Mentally sand physically strong as well as very consistent. What I'm saying is that Koscielny is better in terms of raw talent imo. More athletic than Campbell, agressive, brave, great tackler and easily the best 1 on 1 defender in the league.

Impossible to say, but I still think you're selling Campbell short. As senile as he is now, Campbell was the best centre-back in the league in his prime in 2004, which is no mean feat considering he was up against players like John Terry, Ledley King and Jamie Carragher. What Campbell lacked in athleticism compared to Koscielny, he more than makes up in sheer ******-mindedness and discipline.

Lol Ramos is not better then Koscielny.

See, I disagree with this, and I really wonder why this seems to be a commonly-accepted thing. Ramos is fresh off a multiple-trophy winning campaign in which he was one of the most important figures in the team, being the leader of the defence and scorer of key goals throughout the competition. Even if we go into the figures, last year he had more successful tackles than Koscielny, was dribbled past less, played more successful ambitious long passes (over double the amount, in fact) and that's in the league alone. When you're maybe the third most important player in a team including the likes of Ronaldo, Bale, Modric, Benzema, Xabi Alonso and Marcelo, you can tell you're a premier defender.

So why do people always write off Ramos as being worse than Koscielny, a centre-back whose team has currently shipped the joint-most goals of the top eight? Because from where I'm sitting, at the moment Koscielny hasn't only not been better than Ramos, he's not even been the best defender in his team this year.
 
Ramos is fresh off a multiple-trophy winning campaign in which he was one of the most important figures in the team, being the leader of the defence and scorer of key goals throughout the competition.

What does trophies have to do with anything? If Koscielny was Spanish and happened to play with best midfield in the world in Busquets, Iniesta, Alonso, Xavi, best goalkeeper in the world in Casillas, best striker in the world in Torres, he would likely be fresh off multiple-trophy winning campaigns too. Puyol was untouchable back in a day but he's definitely good enough to compete with either Pique or Ramos.

Even if we go into the figures, last year he had more successful tackles than Koscielny, was dribbled past less, played more successful ambitious long passes (over double the amount, in fact) and that's in the league alone.

I thought we pretty much established that tackles stat doesn't mean much at all. Its a common phenomenon that with good prediction and game reading (something that Koscielny excels at) tackles go down, because you just don't need to do them as often as the other guys. You know who also had underwhelming amount of tackles per game? Maldini.

When you're maybe the third most important player in a team including the likes of Ronaldo, Bale, Modric, Benzema, Xabi Alonso and Marcelo, you can tell you're a premier defender.. So why do people always write off Ramos as being worse than Koscielny, a centre-back whose team has currently shipped the joint-most goals of the top eight? Because from where I'm sitting, at the moment Koscielny hasn't only not been better than Ramos, he's not even been the best defender in his team this year

Right, except I didn't write Ramos as worse. I'd say they're about on par, and certainly neither is so supremely superior to the other that you can genuinely paint one as impeccable gem of modern defending and the other as weak point in the team.
 
Cant believe people are even comparing Koscielny with Ramos let alone think he's better ...

Campbell was great though in his prime.
 
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