The Ashes 2010/11
- Thread starter Stann
- Start date
- Replies 916
- Views 44K
As I said, England are not poor. That was an exaggeration <) It was 4ish in the morning, give me a break
Ian Botham and his *** chums, and the England press are going on like England are some amazing side. When they beat India in India and South Africa in South Africa anybody can then call England are a great side. To your point about let us have our fun, that is fair enough, but beating the Aussies now is no where near what it was in 05 (even it is in Aussieland), it is nothing special and England should have won/win convincingly.
Fair enough re India in India. But we drew 1-1 in SA last time there and WON 2-1 in SA the time before. So are unbeaten in series in SA for over 10 years. You were saying?
---------- Post added at 11:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 AM ----------
As he said, he didn't say the worst in history.
Anyway, Zaheer Khan misses more games than he plays (though I agree he is brilliant). Harbhajan Singh is overrated and his best days are behind him. He averages 38 with the ball over the last 4 years. Sreesanth averages 36 his entire career in tests. Their other bowlers are similar.
So I agree with the poster re "Worst test attack from a No 1 ranked team".
Zaheer is better than any of your bowlers. And you are underestimating Harbhajan here. The guy who single handedly won the series against Aussies when they were level above over all the nations. Swann has played for what 1 or 2 seasons. Spinners have really tough job as they batsman get used to them. They need to invent lot of special deliveries or adapt to the changes. So will see how Swann does in few years. We have seen Mendis who was untouchable in few games but as his bowling was exposed, he is less effective now.
No point in adding Unadkat there.
And Tremlett >> Sharma? On what basis? How many tests he has played? Go and watch what Ishant Sharma did to ponting when we toured Australia last time. One of the best spells of the season and Ponting and co had no clue on how to play his stock delivery.
Zaheer > Anderson
Sharma > Tremlett
Bhajji > Swann (Based on experience, not just form and one wonder season).
During the 2008 Test series against Australia in India, Ishant was the leading wicket-taker, with 15, and was named man-of-the-series as India won 2–0. He thereby became the first Indian paceman to win such an award in a Test series on Indian soil after Kapil Dev who won the award in 1983
On the basis Ishant Sharma averages 36 runs per wicket.
Indians still bleat about the Aussie win in in 2001. Granted, it was sensational but it was 9 years ago. I repeat, Harbhajan averages 38 per wicket over the last 4 years. And he didnt 'singlehandedly win the series againt the Aussies'. Without THAT partnership between Rahul Dravid and VVS Laxman you would of lost by an innings.
Lets look at Zaheer stats to Anderson. Zaheer averages 32.22 runs per wicket. Anderson 31.76. Zaheer 3.30 economy. Anderson 3.29. Zaheer strike rate 58.9. Anderson 57.7. So they are very similar or Anderson slightly better. Kind of ****** on your parade somewhat, no? Added Zaheer is injury prone and I know who I would rather have.
Last edited:
So much importance for stats. Anderson playes in conditions that suits fast bowlers. Zaheer does well in every conditions and he took wickets on pitches which assist spinners. Yeah we all know whom many have in their team.
Tremlett played what 4 tests? And you are considering his average. Not to forget Ishant's age and potential.
Swann is having exceptional time, like i said, spinners gets exposed lot quicker than pace bowlers, they should adapt to ever changing game. Once he does that, then we can judge him.
In cricket, stats prove a lot, not everything I grant you, but a lot. And you dismiss them so easily.
Ok, let us play your game. Almost all of your batsmen have brilliant test match batting averages. Most of your top six over 50. Other than Tendulkar (who is the 2nd best batsman of all time IMO) and Dravid, how many Indians average above 40 away from home? I cant be arsed to check but I would guess none. The phrase "flat track bullies" spring to mind. Take them away from the flat, dead pitches of the subcontinent, and they struggle. 136 a/o and currently 205-9 as I write this shows my point somewhat.
Did you check how English batsmen fared on sub continent pitches before saying flat track bullies? Go and check Laxman average then.
Indeed, England dont play spin very well. Never have and probably never will. What was your point?
My point? Same as yours when you said our batsmen play well only in sub continent.
And SA is a poor example. We never played well there, and we have won only test in SA.
We have done well in England, Australia and every part of the world except SA. Whats your point.
You started with lame comparison by saying a bowler who hardly played 5 tests with youngster who played well for season and even got Man of the series on Indian pitche. Did you know when was the last time that happened?
And i dont want to spoil this thread. You can enjoy the hype as this is not the first time we are watching this.
Actually I didn't. I was merely providing proof your arguments are deeply flawed. As for who did, check poster name and it wasn't me.
Like you said, lets get back on topic and agree to disagree.
Recent attack = the previous test, which they played without Zaheer.
I didn't reply to the rest of your post, as it is irrelevant considering I was talking about the Indian attack with Khan. But if you like, I'll address your post point-by-point.
Their bowling attack is a huge contender for worst #1 Test side bowling attack ever.
Sreesanth
Sharma
Unadkat
Harbhajan
Raina
That's horribly poor. Granted, Harbhajan is a very good bowler, but he's not amazing. He averages 32+ in Tests. Yes, that's fairly solid, but not for a bowler who's going to lead the attack. Sreesanth is decent but Sharma averages 39 at Tests and just has nothing, absolutely nothing, on Zaheer. And Raina cannot bowl for toffee.
Compared to that bowling attack, right there:
Anderson >>>>>> Sreesanth
Tremlett >> Sharma
Bresnan >>>> Unadkat
Swann >> Harbajhan
Collingwood/Pietersen = Raina
And your so lucky that I've not included Broad or Finn in there. I know which attack I'd prefer overall.
This is completely true. India are a good side because their pitches have batting written all over them, and their batting is No. 1 in the world. Their bowling lacks depth, and if you saw the first test between India and SA, Unadkat looked out of his depth.
Anyway, England looked brilliant, after a few lucky escapes, and Ponting will get fined
Lol.
Firstly, I was talking about the attack WITHOUT Zaheer, that's the whole ****** point. Without Zaheer, the Indian attack is completely toothless and really is a lot worse than ours.
And as someone said previously, Zaheer is not actually better than Anderson, Sharma is not actually better than Tremlett, and Harbhajan is most definately not better than the best spinner in the world.
I don't care what awards Sharma has got, he's got a horrific average and there's no other way of looking at it. He's just not a very good test bowler that wouldn't get into the English side, fully fit or not.
What has tremlett did to rate him higher than Sharma? He is what 29? Still trying to find his feet. Nothing surprise here though, we have seen a lot of over hyping, this is one among those.
I have already said about Swann and i wont repeat it.
And Yeah for you lot Anderson is better, but for us Zaheer is and he is proving what an asset he is for us. He is back and SA are all out for 131.
And it took not more than 5 test matches for you lot to overrate one of your bowlers. Infact 2.
Although I am on the side that India are an overall better team than England people are forgetting that Tremlett will most likely not be in the side. Broad will come back. He is a terrific young bowler who can bat.
Recent attack = the previous test, which they played without Zaheer.
I didn't reply to the rest of your post, as it is irrelevant considering I was talking about the Indian attack with Khan. But if you like, I'll address your post point-by-point.
Their bowling attack is a huge contender for worst #1 Test side bowling attack ever.
Sreesanth
Sharma
Unadkat
Harbhajan
Raina
That's horribly poor. Granted, Harbhajan is a very good bowler, but he's not amazing. He averages 32+ in Tests. Yes, that's fairly solid, but not for a bowler who's going to lead the attack. Sreesanth is decent but Sharma averages 39 at Tests and just has nothing, absolutely nothing, on Zaheer. And Raina cannot bowl for toffee.
Compared to that bowling attack, right there:
Anderson >>>>>> Sreesanth
Tremlett >> Sharma
Bresnan >>>> Unadkat
Swann >> Harbajhan
Collingwood/Pietersen = Raina
And your so lucky that I've not included Broad or Finn in there. I know which attack I'd prefer overall.
Whilst I still don't agree that it's the worst #1 Test bowling unit ever, that's extremely well argued. I take my hat off to you.
Just want to remind people about THIS
and Ponting has been fined - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/9322256.stm
and Ponting has been fined - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/9322256.stm
Last edited:
Stann
please stay StevieP! &amp;lt;3
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2009
- Messages
- 1,921
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
Eds basically said exactly what I was saying earlier in the thread but better. India really are not the great away from home, only thing is the pitches are so flat you do well to bowl them out for less than 500 and even though there bowlers are poor, they no the conditions know how to play there.
Quite rightly too. Ponting's outburst was utterly disgraceful.