Are you saying we have a sectarianism problem or what, I really don't understand how you could be informed in the subject and still think one is as bad as the other
You dont get it do you. It is not about who is worse than the other, that is the argument of children. Its about the fact that both sides have contributed to this, beyond football. and that needs to be addressed. Stop playing the childish blame game.
Though I find it interesting you immediately think i'm ill informed...
Again you make out like it's a one sided problem, Shocker.
I understand what you're saying completely, and I know there is a lot of hate between the two teams on both sides, an unhealthy level. But Celtic do not have a problem with sectarianism. That's what I meant by guilty by association, as it is widely believed we do because we are part of a rivalry with a team who does.
I think you've misunderstood, I know you know your stuff about the spl/old firm, the comment I made was because I'm surprised at your views on the rivalry.
@ScoutSniper7, Celtic fans do not sing sectarian songs
Lets be honest guys nobody really agrees with sectarian signing from both sides but it always go to be there no matter what.So a couple of guys moaning on this is going to make no difference but just too add the SASH is not sectarian in any way.
Too many people on both sides are far too concerned with what the other side have done. There has been so much poison before, that as long as people cling to this, Scotland can NEVER go forwards, thats what I mean. If you cling to whatever the otherside has done, you will never let go of that resentment, that is what i mean by the childish blame game.
As for problems within your support, they most certainly exist.
Are you saying we have a sectarianism problem or what, I really don't understand how you could be informed in the subject and still think one is as bad as the other
I don't understand that you think it's a one sided issue when you have supporters who glorify terrorist organisations?
Read my post above. I don't make out that its totally one sided, just Celtic FC do something about it (banning fans and songs) and most other clubs in Scotland don't.
Also i have seen no death threats or fan violence against the rangers manager or hearts manager, but Neil Lennon has suffered from both sets of fans. And to show how deluded scotland is, they let the hearts fan off the sectarian charges: unbiased jury indeed.
Also Catholics in scotland are in the minority and so don't really have much of a say in the politics of Scotland, so starting with a minority isn't really the place to start with if you want change. Lets also not forget that it was only about 30 or 40 years ago that Catholics in scotland still couldn't get decent jobs due to bigotry. This is why there aren't many catholics in high places now, and why the bigots of scotland get so angry when they do make it into positions of power. Minority's who are treated this way always rebel against the establishment around the world, and rightfully so.
AM67 also makes a point about whether these rebel songs are even bigoted, if you read the lyrics most of them refer to 800 years of oppression by the English crown, in this respect its similar to other cultures slave songs.
Read my post above. I don't make out that its totally one sided, just Celtic FC do something about it (banning fans and songs) and most other clubs in Scotland don't.
Also i have seen no death threats or fan violence against the rangers manager or hearts manager, but Neil Lennon has suffered from both sets of fans. And to show how deluded scotland is, they let the hearts fan off the sectarian charges: unbiased jury indeed.
Also Catholics in scotland are in the minority and so don't really have much of a say in the politics of Scotland, so starting with a minority isn't really the place to start with if you want change. Lets also not forget that it was only about 30 or 40 years ago that Catholics in scotland still couldn't get decent jobs due to bigotry. This is why there aren't many catholics in high places now, and why the bigots of scotland get so angry when they do make it into positions of power. Minority's who are treated this way always rebel against the establishment around the world, and rightfully so.
AM67 also makes a point about whether these rebel songs are even bigoted, if you read the lyrics most of them refer to 800 years of oppression by the English crown, in this respect its similar to other cultures slave songs.
Yes, a banned IRA chant is on the same level as the racism sectarianism and bigotry that runs through your club and support. Just as bad as each other eh
Ok three points this time.
1. I am a Hearts fan. Why would you assume I was a Rangers fan? Because I disagree with you.
2. I am an athiest with no religious affiliation to anyone.
3. To suggest supporting terrorists is not the same level as protestant bigotry is retarded.
Sorry, I mis interpreted your post, that's my bad. I still don't agree with you.
Are you forgetting that Nacho Novo recieved death threats? He also had to have private security guards at his home. Alan McGregor was attacked in a nightclub and De Marcus Beasley's car was set on fire :\
Play in Old Firm match and you die | The Sun |Home Scotland|Scottish Sport|SPL
Glasgow Rangers Goalkeeper Allan McGregor Attacked In Nightclub, Sky Sources Understand | UK News | Sky News
While on holiday in Santa Ponsa (Mallorca) a very catholic town, everyone was very friendly until they found out our group was protestant. Bar staff (not spanish) refused to serve us and a group of Irish catholics tried to attack some of my friends. I will never be visiting that place again.
I do agree that clubs need to do more. Motherwell get away with murder with the stuff their fans sing. In fact they have been accused of racially abusing Jason Scotland and Larry Kingston in recent years without punishment and I hear the songs that get sung at Tynecastle, it's just as bad, if not worse than Ibrox.
Not sure why you are bringing up catholic descrimination from thirty years ago though?
1. My bad, Hearts are very much involved with Celtic these days anyway so I'm sure you know all about it. Do you go to many Hearts games?
2. ok
3. Singing a song? Same level as discriminating against people based on their nationality and religion? What???
I brought up Catholic descrimination from thirty years ago to demonstrate that the establishment have shown a great amount of bigotry to Irish Catholics (or in the case of many people now of Irish catholic descent) in Scotland, and although there has been chang, still not enough in the establishment.
I do remember that you've got a point a very vaild point there about those players.... I'm genuinley very sorry to hear that you've suffered violence first hand.
I personally don't like the fact that a lot of the sectarianism is brushed under the carpet, and a lot of senior members of the football community have admitted to singing these songs etc. Like I said I know at Celtic Park, you get thrown out for singing any sort of IRA song. Would be good to see other clubs do the same.
1. My bad, Hearts are very much involved with Celtic these days anyway so I'm sure you know all about it. Do you go to many Hearts games?
2. ok
3. Singing a song? Same level as discriminating against people based on their nationality and religion? What???
Nah, not really. I live a bit too far away now and can't really afford the commute as well as the ticket prices. I will be going to the Semi Final though.
What do you mean by 'involved with Cetlic' because some idiot tried to smack Lennon we are all bigots?
You are being critical of the songs they sing, why are pro IRA songs better?
Personally I don't know anything about descrimination of catholics because it didn't happen in my time and I am from a very unreligious background. The same could be said about many races though.
It still upsets me to this day but i'm sure it's happened to others the other way around etc too. I just don't understand hatred in that level. It seems very primal that people shun others over race/gender.
When I was about eight or nine a friends dad asked my name, to which I said 'Kris' to which he said 'good because if your name was Paddy, I'd have told you to GTFO'
Then to the other end of the scale my friends girlfriend's aunt's refuse to speak to him because he isn't catholic :\ They have been dating for seven years and still not a word.
Just a few examples.
There's an obvious rivalry between Celtic and Hearts at the moment, why would you act like you think I'm calling you a bigot lol
Celtic have a minority of Irish fans who chant about the IRA, which obviously is out of order. I just don't think it can be compared to Rangers' rioting, anti-catholic policy (which was the club, not the fans..), and the racist/sectarian songs sang by the MAJORITY of Rangers fans. I'm not comparing Celtic songs and Rangers songs, both are offensive, but Rangers do more than sing their songs.
@Mike, I wrongly assumed Kris was a Rangers fan, I don't see what's sinister about that. I assumed he supported a team he doesn't. I didn't decide he was a Rangers fan because I don't like the sound of his name or something. The last point in your post, the only issue he has pointed out is the chanting? Unless you're referring to the Novo/McGregor/Edu incidents which, like you said about the Hearts/Lennon incident, were obviously down to idiots which every club has.