The Champions League Discussion Thread

[Scott]

Guys your fighting a losing battle if your trying to make CJ realise that Spurs arent the biggest and best club in the world, and that players wouldnt want to leave them

 

[Ride The Walrus]

Well, I think Spurs will see this as a learning lesson. I think they will qualify for next season's CL, and after learning a lesson (sadly the hard way), they have a chance to go further next season as long as they buy sensibly.

And qualify for it. It's certainly an uphill task to do so.

 

[ajt09]

And qualify for it. It's certainly an uphill task to do so.

Miracles can happen. Man City aren't exacty playing as a team bar a few players, and it'll be interesting to see if Chelsea can pick themselves up after being knocked out of the CL by Man Utd. Anything can happen, and it'll make interesting viewing

 

[CJACKO11]

Just a few facts here for Utd fans to look at.
Man Utd against German sides over two legs:

1997 semi-final vs Dortmund. Lost 2-0
2001 quarter-final vs Bayern. Lost 3-1
2002 semi-final vs Leverkusen. Lost on away goals
2010 quarter-final vs Bayern. Lost on away goals

Dosent look great does it.

 

[Scott]

Just a few facts here for Utd fans to look at.
Man Utd against German sides over two legs:

1997 semi-final vs Dortmund. Lost 2-0
2001 quarter-final vs Bayern. Lost 3-1
2002 semi-final vs Leverkusen. Lost on away goals
2010 quarter-final vs Bayern. Lost on away goals

Dosent look great does it.

Heres the Key one though....

Manchester United > *

 

[Mike.]

Just a few facts here for Utd fans to look at.
Man Utd against German sides over two legs:

1997 semi-final vs Dortmund. Lost 2-0
2001 quarter-final vs Bayern. Lost 3-1
2002 semi-final vs Leverkusen. Lost on away goals
2010 quarter-final vs Bayern. Lost on away goals

Dosent look great does it.

2010 was very different to 1997-2002... well noted that it was the hard lessons from that period that changed uniteds style in europe

 

[Madridista CR7]

If Schalke go to the final..i hope barcelona doesn't. And i hope we do.

Because i dont want to see a trashing in the Cl final

But i think United will win. Can't see them losing. But i hope City win them in wembley so they can atleast not get the treble

Anyways...4 great El Clasicos coming for the football fans around the world. That means lots of excitment left in this season...

But im going to be nervy in those El Clasicos And i might be let down I hope Mourinho doesn't let me down like Pellegrini last season

 

[CJACKO11]

2010 was very different to 1997-2002... well noted that it was the hard lessons from that period that changed uniteds style in europe

Just chucking out the facts.

 

[Joel`]

Just chucking out the facts.

Past is the past. Lessons learnt.

 

[Mike.]

Just chucking out the facts.

facts mean little without context.

 

[CJACKO11]

facts mean little without context.

Never said they do, im just saying in the past Utd have struggled against German teams over two legs.

 

[Scott]

Never said they do, im just saying in the past Utd have struggled against German teams over two legs.

Which you where then trying to start up a debate over Utds tie with Schackle... Srs dude you standards are dropping.

 

[Joel`]

Never said they do, im just saying in the past Utd have struggled against German teams over two legs.

And in the past Chelsea have had a good record at Old Trafford. Also pretty generalising just to say German teams. They don't all play the same footballing style. Bit like saying that Madrid have a good record against English teams then giving them Stoke. Completely different style.

 

[Ride The Walrus]

Miracles can happen. Man City aren't exacty playing as a team bar a few players, and it'll be interesting to see if Chelsea can pick themselves up after being knocked out of the CL by Man Utd. Anything can happen, and it'll make interesting viewing

Perhaps, but they have got the hardest run-in.

 

[CJACKO11]

Which you where then trying to start up a debate over Utds tie with Schackle... Srs dude you standards are dropping.

Why not start a debate. It is in the right section.

---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------

And in the past Chelsea have had a good record at Old Trafford. Also pretty generalising just to say German teams. They don't all play the same footballing style. Bit like saying that Madrid have a good record against English teams then giving them Stoke. Completely different style.

Corse they play a different style but its also a mental thing.

 

[Scott]

Why not start a debate. It is in the right section.

Why lie when and say you where just chucking facts out... When you wanted to make United fans maybe slightly worried or something silly like that.

 

[curtis290]

curtis Schalke are not poor, not in europe anyway, in the bundesliga they are a mess, but in europe where we face them, they are dangerous, and confident, a real jekyll and hyde team. And barca don't travel well away from home, its been the case for sometime, last night was their first win in 9 matches.

My only point is that I can't remember a team like this ever making the semi-final. I don't really buy into the concept of 'domestic league form' and 'europe form.' Schalke is simply a team that is not very good this season but has been able to put together a couple of good performances. They advanced out of a very easy group and stacked up well against an inexperienced Valencia team that choked. Then, Inter's defense has a horror of a night and they're through to the semi-finals (I doubt Inter went into the second leg with any hope).

ManU this season typically doesn't really dominate teams so Schalke might make them sweat but there is no possible way Schalke would beat them. Schalke would definitely be the lowest ranked team in history to make a CL final, and there's no way in **** ManU would choke like that. That's not this team: they have way too much mental toughness and good leadership to falter like that.

Inter haven't been **** all year either, they have been good, just not near their best.

They have had a lot of injuries but considering the strength of their squad they've been ****. They are poorly coached and they can't defend at all. Combine that with Chivu playing at CB and you allow 5 goals at home. Has an Italian team ever done that at this stage of the competition?

Sorry but if we are able to match and beat Barca that makes us the better team. Same way if Barca(or real madrid for that matter) they are the better team, its that simple.

It's not that simple. Upsets happen all of the time. You can't say just because a team won a match that they're better than the other team. I mean, when Porto eliminated ManU in '04 that didn't make Porto the better team, they just happened to get the result on that day. Also, it has to do with the manner of the victory. I don't think ManU is going to outplay them, I think they'll get the result. I think Barca will dominate the game from end to end but ManU's superb defending (led by Vidic) will absorb their attacks and they will get one or two on the counter and win. Anyway, the point is that I think people will remember this Barca team just as much as this ManU team that wins the treble.

When I'm 80 and people ask me who the best team of the era was, I'll say 10-11 Barca. I'll simply explain them as the best team I ever saw play who was overconfident and choked in the final to a team who matched up well against them and was more motivated. I'll remember ManU as the scrappy team who got a double in the Prem in a weak year and was always able to get the results. A relatively easy route to the final (where they pretty much had homefield advantage) led them to 90 minutes within taking it, and they matched up well against the team in the final and took it by being the more motivated team. There's nothing wrong with that and it takes nothing from their victory, but people will remember them for their hard-work and mental strength (with a little luck involved) and not their quality. The moral of the story of that game will be that hard-work, toughness, and leadership often beats out quality on the pitch (similar to the moral we took from the US Spain game, that even though we're not too good we can beat anyone through determination and grit, which perfectly epitomizes the US mentality).

And if R. Madrid beats Barca in the semis (which wouldn't surprise me too much), I'd remember them as an historically great team who got overconfident and lost to an opponent who was more motivated (revenge) and whose manager figured out the right tactics. I personally think Mourinho is way overrated, but if R. Madrid outplays and beats Barca over two legs, I think my view of him will change somewhat.

For me, an extreme example of what the final be (if Barca makes it) is the US vs. Spain in the Confederations Cup. The US matches up perfectly against Spain. They are an English style team that is physical, athletic, and good on the counter. Spain is a technical team that plays a possession based game very similar to Barca. The US matches up very well against Spain, and so when we went into the match much more motivated than them (combined with their overconfidence) we were able to beat them. Does that mean we were the better team? On that day we were. But there's no way in **** I was claiming we were actually the better team that year. I know this is an extreme example and that the difference between Spain and the US is much greater than the difference between Barca and ManU, but this is generally what I'm talking about. That won't take anything away from ManU's trophy when the win the CL, and of course they will have deserved it, but that doesn't mean it will convince me they are the better team. To me, Barca has already solidified themselves as a great team because of their performances throughout the year, not their 90 minute loss at Wembley.

And please stop going on about supporters of the premier league, especially very few on the thread is currently claiming it to be the best by far.

I was referring to sunil, who does think it is by far and away the best.

P.s to be fair you did say they deserve it.

When ManU wins the CL of course it'll be deserved. That's not the claim I'm making. I'm just saying that I will (and I think many others will too) will remember them as a hard-working, scrappy underdog who were more motivated (and part of this is the whole us vs. them game they're playing will work perfect against Barca, who the media constantly praises) and matched up well against Barca and took the final. If R. Madrid goes to the final, I'm not so sure who'll win. At first I thought R. Madrid would do it, but now I'm thinking that it would be in their nature to choke at that point.

 

[CJACKO11]

Why lie when and say you where just chucking facts out... When you wanted to make United fans maybe slightly worried or something silly like that.

Your hugely parranoid tonight. Just saw the facts on SSN and thought i would post them. Why not.

 

[Scott]

Your hugely parranoid tonight. Just saw the facts on SSN and thought i would post them. Why not.

Paranioa is a good thing, I always though there coming, they cant suprise me, they wont get me, i shall be ready.

 

[Mike.]

My only point is that I can't remember a team like this ever making the semi-final. I don't really buy into the concept of 'domestic league form' and 'europe form.' Schalke is simply a team that is not very good this season but has been able to put together a couple of good performances. They advanced out of a very easy group and stacked up well against an inexperienced Valencia team that choked. Then, Inter's defense has a horror of a night and they're through to the semi-finals (I doubt Inter went into the second leg with any hope).

ManU this season typically doesn't really dominate teams so Schalke might make them sweat but there is no possible way Schalke would beat them. Schalke would definitely be the lowest ranked team in history to make a CL final, and there's no way in **** ManU would choke like that. That's not this team: they have way too much mental toughness and good leadership to falter like that.



They have had a lot of injuries but considering the strength of their squad they've been ****. They are poorly coached and they can't defend at all. Combine that with Chivu playing at CB and you allow 5 goals at home. Has an Italian team ever done that at this stage of the competition?



It's not that simple. Upsets happen all of the time. You can't say just because a team won a match that they're better than the other team. I mean, when Porto eliminated ManU in '04 that didn't make Porto the better team, they just happened to get the result on that day. Also, it has to do with the manner of the victory. I don't think ManU is going to outplay them, I think they'll get the result. I think Barca will dominate the game from end to end but ManU's superb defending (led by Vidic) will absorb their attacks and they will get one or two on the counter and win. Anyway, the point is that I think people will remember this Barca team just as much as this ManU team that wins the treble.

When I'm 80 and people ask me who the best team of the era was, I'll say 10-11 Barca. I'll simply explain them as the best team I ever saw play who was overconfident and choked in the final to a team who matched up well against them and was more motivated. I'll remember ManU as the scrappy team who got a double in the Prem in a weak year and was always able to get the results. A relatively easy route to the final (where they pretty much had homefield advantage) led them to 90 minutes within taking it, and they matched up well against the team in the final and took it by being the more motivated team. There's nothing wrong with that and it takes nothing from their victory, but people will remember them for their hard-work and mental strength (with a little luck involved) and not their quality. The moral of the story of that game will be that hard-work, toughness, and leadership often beats out quality on the pitch (similar to the moral we took from the US Spain game, that even though we're not too good we can beat anyone through determination and grit, which perfectly epitomizes the US mentality).

And if R. Madrid beats Barca in the semis (which wouldn't surprise me too much), I'd remember them as an historically great team who got overconfident and lost to an opponent who was more motivated (revenge) and whose manager figured out the right tactics. I personally think Mourinho is way overrated, but if R. Madrid outplays and beats Barca over two legs, I think my view of him will change somewhat.

For me, an extreme example of what the final be (if Barca makes it) is the US vs. Spain in the Confederations Cup. The US matches up perfectly against Spain. They are an English style team that is physical, athletic, and good on the counter. Spain is a technical team that plays a possession based game very similar to Barca. The US matches up very well against Spain, and so when we went into the match much more motivated than them (combined with their overconfidence) we were able to beat them. Does that mean we were the better team? On that day we were. But there's no way in **** I was claiming we were actually the better team that year. I know this is an extreme example and that the difference between Spain and the US is much greater than the difference between Barca and ManU, but this is generally what I'm talking about. That won't take anything away from ManU's trophy when the win the CL, and of course they will have deserved it, but that doesn't mean it will convince me they are the better team. To me, Barca has already solidified themselves as a great team because of their performances throughout the year, not their 90 minute loss at Wembley.



I was referring to sunil, who does think it is by far and away the best.



When ManU wins the CL of course it'll be deserved. That's not the claim I'm making. I'm just saying that I will (and I think many others will too) will remember them as a hard-working, scrappy underdog who were more motivated (and part of this is the whole us vs. them game they're playing will work perfect against Barca, who the media constantly praises) and matched up well against Barca and took the final. If R. Madrid goes to the final, I'm not so sure who'll win. At first I thought R. Madrid would do it, but now I'm thinking that it would be in their nature to choke at that point.

beating barca is not an upset in the manner you think, our record against reads W3 D4 L3, under SAF W1 D3 L1,in very recent times W1 D1 L1. the goal difference is 17-14. closely matched, they are lsightly better but we are largely closely matchs