Ride The Walrus
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Quality of the squad favours Barcelona, but as we all know United stand very good chance against anyone.
The Champions League Discussion Thread
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Quality of the squad favours Barcelona, but as we all know United stand very good chance against anyone.
i dont disagree with that, but it wouldnt be an upset in the manner he believes
I don't like these historical record statistics because they involve different teams. Guardiola's Barca is different from the Barca's from the past, as is this ManU team. I personally think the ManU team in 08-09 was much better than this one...Giggs, Scholes, Ferdinand, VDS, etc. were younger, and you had C. Ronaldo and Tevez. And this year's Barca team is better than that one I think (stats seem to agree). But of course this is the exact reason why ManU will win...the last ManU team relied on quality. They were much better than their opposition in the Prem and they won because of that. This year's team isn't as good, but they rely on teamwork and grit to win. They can grind out results even when they don't play well. Which is how they will beat Barca. The 08-09 team tried to outplay them, tried to play football against them, even lined up in a 4-3-3 to match them. This year's team knows they don't have the quality to outplay them, but they will rely on teamwork, determination, leadership, their winning mentality, their motivation (they're actually underdogs for once), and most importantly, a goal on the counter (or set piece) at the right time.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to play it off as a huge upset or anything, but I think it will be an upset. ManU is obviously a very good team, I just think Barca is better, and when ManU beats them (if Barca makes the final, that is) that won't change my mind. Also, even if the 08-09 ManU team didn't win the treble, I will still remember them as much better than this ManU team that did (and I have decided now that they will).
United have a better manager than Barca but Barcelona have a better all-round team. However, United are very versatile in the way they play, they can play possession, defensive, counter, etc. unlike Arsenal or Barcelona. If Barca were to face United I would actually think United would win - 2-1 at Nou Camp to Barca, 2-0 at Old Trafford!
What I was trying to tell Cjacko about historical statistics.
If any side is capable of beating Barca though, I'd say that United are. Just for our versatility and mentality, really. And yeah, our squad is weaker than then, but just a testament to Fergie that he's getting what he is from a team that's one of the weakest he's had in his times at United.
The sweet land of vindication
I reckon:
Barca 3-2 Real
Schalke 2-2 United- Schalke to go through
markodragojevic
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We play first leg away from home! Just saying 
We play first leg away from home! Just saying
He means on aggregate
markodragojevic
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I'm just saying we are playing the first leg in Germany League and champions league are very different. Do you know which teams were in semi finals when Porto won the champions league? Schalke are better than that. They have beaten Inter twice to show the quality they have got.
This is what you said.
I really, really want to see Barca win this CL so they can solidify themselves as an historic team. Also because they deserve it.
That is nonsense. You always likes to change the words. This is what i said
I always liked Madrid style of play than Barca.
I said I like Madrid style more than Barca that doesn't mean I'm stating some fact. And BS is you blind generalising. L have seen Liverpool fans who dont like Barca style. Not everone likes passing to death game.
And you know whole world's opinion to make that claim? First you cameup with 50% of users in this site are United fans without doing any research, and also wanted to prove something using the poll when only 2 United fans had voted. This is 4th or 5th time I'm seeing you making blind assumptions.
Again twisting my words. I said they are the best but not by far as you make it sound. Historically Serie A is better than La Liga. La Liga is **** league.
Having Best team means jackshit when it comes to having best league. Only Barca and Madrid have any chance of winning league.
Not only this season, if you take 3 season under pep, they won rarely away from home. They are the best team, not by far as you make it sound. This is the exact reason why many hate Barca. People love to overrate them as if they are sent by God to show everyone how to play football. Diving cheating scums..
I'm willing to bet, show me one post where i said they are not the best. Twisting words again. FAIL.
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Team fighting relegation beat 3rd or 4th best team in LaLiga. According to your logic, how **** is LaLiga?
Barca played Arsenal and Shakhtar and we played Marsille and Chelsea. It is not out fault that Inter choked to make our route easy. It is so much gun seeing your delusion. Did you check the last 2 years knock out stage opponents for Barca?
I dont give a **** about what anyone thinks if we lay our hands on Champions league.
So regardless of what happens Barca are great team just coz they can kepp 75% possession? If you go and chack UEFA rankings, you will see your historically great team behind 1 team.
2011 UEFA Club Coefficients
1. Manchester United 142.928
2. FC Barcelona 131.951
3. Chelsea FC 128.928
4. Bayern Munich 118.787
5. Liverpool FC 114.928
6. Arsenal FC 107.928
When you say this nonsense, please put up the post. Generally i dont involve in League Vs League **** unless someone comes up how dominant some team is beating **** poor opponents.
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Yeah, I agree 100%. I didn't bring it up before but that's obviously a HUGE part of ManU's success this season and another reason why if Barca makes the final ManU will certainly beat them. Fergie will get the tactics just right, and I'm sure he learned from last time. The historical statistics weren't in reference to you though...
That Porto team won the Portuguese league and had been in-form all season. Schalke has put in some good performances during this year's CL but it's not like they're a magically different team when they play in Europe. All I'm asking is for you to name a semi-final opponent that has been this bad.
My bad, that's not really how I meant it. Whoever wins this Champions League (bar a reffing disaster) deserves to win it. However, because of the football they've played this year, in a way I think Barca deserves to win it. They've been the best team, and one would like to see the best team win the competition. Obviously though when ManU wins I'm not going to say they didn't deserve it (unless there was blatantly horrible officiating or something). The perfect example would be in the Prem this season. ManU has been the toughest team, and they deserve to win it. If ManU somehow got distracted by their other competitions and had a bunch of injuries and slipped up in the league and gave the title to Arsenal (can't happen, but hypothetically), in a way it would be a shame ManU didn't win it because they deserved it more than Arsenal. Obviously if Arsenal won that's not to say they didn't deserve it, but ManU deserves it more.
Here is EXACTLY what you said: No. Barca don't play attractive football. Not everyone thinks playing possession football is attractive.
Now, if you had only said 'Not everyone thinks playing possession football is attractive. I always liked Madrid's style of play more.' That would have been fine. You are correct that football is subjective, that there is no such thing as a style of play that is inherently more attractive than another (beauty is in the eyes of the beholder), so you would have been right in correcting me for making a seemingly objective statement that should have been qualified with 'in my opinion.' Instead, you added in the statement "Barca don't play attractive football," attempting to objectively state that this beauty is objective and that Barca's football cannot be described as this quality.
Also, I don't really think this Madrid team does not really play attractive football, and it's something a lot of Madrid fans are ****** about. The previous set of galacticos were so much more exciting to watch that it's not even funny (I know it's subjective, but still, I doubt you will find any fan that would say this team's brand of football is nearly as easy on the eye as that of the galacticos). This set of galacticos is very, very talented, and they play very effective football, but by Madrid's/Spain's standards, it's nothing special in terms of the aesthetic.
It was just a guess, as was obvious, and if one team stands out here (as ManU does) it will probably seem like there are more of them than there actually are. However, I have yet to meet a serious football fan who doesn't think Barca is the best team in the world right now. Obviously there will be the occasional ManU fan that insists their team is better (I did meet one once), but even all of the ManU fans I know (and I do know lots) say that this year's Barca team is better (though many are confident they will beat Barca, and I know they will). I'm sorry but that's just the popular perception right now. Obviously if you ask me to guess the number of fans there are at a football website, I may be way off, but this is pretty obvious.
In the 80's and 90's Serie A was better than La Liga, though definitely not in the 00's. Historically, Brazil's Serie A and the Argentine League are better, of course though than any of the European leagues. But it's when you make idiot statements like "La Liga is **** league" that I stop listening to you. You're way biased against anything from Spain and it's come up again and again. The UEFA coefficients as well as just about every sane football fan (including myself) think it's the second best league in the world...so it's a **** league just because it's not the Prem? This kind of arrogance is exactly what I was referring to earlier that Mike brought up. And it's not like there's that much of a difference between the big 4 from top to bottom.
This argument is so poor it's not even funny and it has been answered so many times. Since the Prem's inception, MORE teams have won La Liga than the Prem. The Prem is a two horse race every ******* season. It used to be a one horse race, with ManU always winning unless they had an off year. Than Arsenal became a great team and it became a two horse race. Then, Arsenal became a selling club and Chelsea bought themselves an all-star team. It became a two horse race between ManU and Chelsea. This year it was always a one-horse race. I didn't think Chelsea would be title challengers this year (too old, not a well-built team), so I was shocked when they started off so well, but by Novemeber it was a one horse race with ManU being a lock of the title. How on earth does this make the Prem so competitive? At least La Liga was a two-horse race between two great teams, whereas the Prem this year was a one-horse race whose best team hasn't even been that good.
By far is a very relative term. I think they are the best team, followed by Madrid, followed by ManU. I think there is a decent gap between the teams, but I don't know how to describe the size of this gap. My only point was that I think Barca was the best team in the world (which you agreed with) but that ManU will win if Barca beats R. Madrid and they go to the final (which you probably also agree with). So if we agree, why attack everything I said?
Maybe they are a bit overrated, that's because of the media hype. The media loves to hype up big teams, especially when they're playing well, and this year's Barca team has been something special and truly a joy to watch (not to mention their core group of players helped Spain with the Euro 08 and WC 10, which is pretty remarkable), which is why the media talks about them constantly (and it will ultimately be a big part of their downfall). But as a ManU fan that's not really something you can complain about, ManU has been hyped up by the media PLENTY over the years. Big teams get media coverage, and when they're playing well, they get lots of hype, some of it may be undeserved. The ManU team from 07-09 was amazing, but they got so much media hype a lot of people thought they'd walk all over Barca. That probably contributed to their overconfidence, which I'm sure was a big part of why they got beat so badly. That won't be an issue this year (but it will be for Barca), which is why ManU will win.
It definitely seemed like you didn't think they were the best, they way you've responded to my posts.
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[/QUOTE]Team fighting relegation beat 3rd or 4th best team in LaLiga. According to your logic, how **** is LaLiga? [/QUOTE]
Oh, bring up one game, great argument. Kind of like when Wolverhampton beat ManU? The league vs. league debate is so annoying. La Liga has two stellar teams this season, though their 3rd-5th best teams aren't so good. The Prem has one pretty good team this year, and 4 teams slightly below that, while the rest of the league isn't any good. From top to bottom, taking into account ALL 20 teams, there isn't that much of a difference between the leagues. The same goes even for Serie A and the Bundesliga. La Liga is a very, very deep league. Just because Valencia, Sevilla, and Atletico aren't having good seasons (finances and poor coaching play a large role) doesn't mean all 20 teams suck all of the sudden. Look at how stacked Atletico and Sevilla are, especially Atletico. Those are world class teams and yet they are struggling to qualify for Europa. Why? Because there are no easy games in La Liga. All of the teams are good.
So far, Barca's route was possibly a little easier than ManU's. But Barca has to play an insanely good team in the semi-finals, while ManU has the easiest opponent in history. If Barca wins the CL (they won't, I'm sure of it), they will have beaten the second best team in the world over a two-leg draw and the third best in the final. They also beat the 4th best team in the world in the first round. I wouldn't describe this as an easy route to the trophy. In 08-09, when Barca won the CL, they beat the two other great teams in the world to win the CL. In 09-10, they lost to the second best team in the world, who stacked up very well against them (great defense) and had a huge advantage (not having to drive by bus all across Europe to their away leg). Don't see what your point is.
Not sure what the stats refer to but I don't disagree with them. Barca sucked for several years in the 90's and 00's because they were in transition and building for the long-term. ManU is the biggest team in the world and historically has probably been the best over the past 20 years...what's your point? All I had said was that this Barca team is a great team. They're going to set the ******* record, for Christ's sake, in one of the top leagues in the world. The fact that Real Madrid, who has won more European championships than any club, is in the same league and not once in their history could earn this many points, says something. As I said before, they will go down in history as a great team, which was my only claim on that subject. Not sure why you have such a problem with this.
How about when you said La Liga is **** in your last post? You've made that statement more or less many teams. The idea that Barca isn't good despite their record because of the strength of their league is horseshit. If you can get 100 points in any of the top 5 leagues in the world, you are a really, really good team. They will set the record for points in the second best league in the world at the moment. How does that not make them an historic team? Also, your claim that they are simply beating **** poor opponents is annoying and inaccurate. There is no way the Prem is that much better than La Liga team for team. Do you honestly think that Wigan is that much better than Almeria? That West Ham is so much better than Hercules? That Blackburn is that much better that Deportivo? That Bolton is better than Atletico? You have 19 opponents in these leagues, and La Liga's 38 game schedule is hardly easier than the Prem's 38 game schedule. It's only the deluded, biased football fans that go on and on about how much better the Prem is than La Liga and that therefore, Barca and Real Madrid aren't any good because they have such a soft schedule.
Even Serie A's 38 game schedule is about the same as the other two's, and I would definitely say the same about the Bundesliga's 34 game schedule. If you are able to dominate that much in any of these leagues, you are a great team, which is why Barca and Real are great teams, and why Barca will deservedly go down in history as an historically great team for setting the La Liga points record. If they get the Copa del Rey, that would boost their status a little bit, as would getting the Champions League (which won't happen).
Monaco reached finals. Deportivo. Liverpool played well in 2005 champions league but not so in the league. So League and Europe are completely different. Another example is Manchester United. Dominated league for years still couldn't do that in Europe. Milan were great in Europe not so in league.
Again you said they deserve it. Barca won the 2009 champions league with the help of ref. Not sure how many said they didn't deserve it.
Here is EXACTLY what you said: No. Barca don't play attractive football. Not everyone thinks playing possession football is attractive.
Last set of Galacticos didn't play attractive football. It was all down to Individual brilliance.
Again you are twisting my words and acting like ignorant. I have said Barca are the best side, but not by faras you would like us to believe.
Jeez, La Liga is **** is more like a tongue in cheek comment and i have already said i dont like League Vs League. Serie A dominated till mid 00s too. Only after the scandal they were poor. Till then they were super in Europe too.
I saw you saying historical stats means jackshit. So More teams winning LaLiga than Premier league doesn't make any sense today. We know Chelsea, Arsenal, ManUtd can win the league and Liverpool, City and Spurs are not that far. In Spain it is only Madrid and Barca.
I would want to know how Madrid is the second best when they have won **** for years and made it to quarters of champions league for the first time in 6-7 years. Oh coz they are second in LaLiga?
Weren't you the one who brought Barca Vs Arsenal game to mock premier league. So only i brought Schalke, who you thought were the poorest team ever to qualify for Semi finals.
Last year Inter were the best team not the second best. This season Madrid are not the second best. The stats i posted are UEFA coefficients which are calculated for 5 years not through 90s. So in the past 5 years NO TEAM HAS DONE BETTER THAN MANUTD IN THE EUROPE.
In Premier league players have balls to tackle which they lack in LaLiga. I have not seen any league where teams just bends over to get ****** royally.
Bale is overrated I think, but he is still a great player, not world class as the media thinks though. And not really, Spurs have won against the big teams, they don't need to up their game much.
There is such think as domestic and europe form - remember Fulham last season?
raul93-fan
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Definetely a legend. Great player, great personality, definetely one of THE BEST strikers ever. Glad he's doing wonders at Schalke, hope he continues to do wonders in Champions League and in the Cup and in the League.
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Back to the topic of some schmuck dissing schalke.
Look mate, write them off, keep writing them off, the same way you did it in the group stage, the same way you did it in the matches against valencia, the same way you did it in the matches against Inter.
Guess what, Schalke went on through as group winner, they beat valencia and inter.
If your fragile mind isn't good enough to understand that you're opinion is wrong, and that they are not a ****** team, well, try to work on thinking.
Honestly, the matches against United (both of them), will be extremely hard. I hope Schalke go through, but we have to look at the situation, and the fact is that United are favourites. But then again, so were Inter and Valencia.
I honestly hope that Schalke can go into the finals, that they can beat United in the semis, but I know that the chances of that are a bit slim.
But unlike this person saying schalke is **** (i believe curtis290 is his forum name right?), I do not offend other people's team, I do not undermind my own team or the opponent. I look at it realistically, yes, Schalke maybe are doing badly at the moment in the league, maybe they're only hope is champions league and/or the german cup, but I do not go around saying that they are *****.
Seriously mate, do you even have any basics of culture?
Any respect for others?
Don't think so.
Might get infracted for this post, but seriously, if he could have said "schalke are the shittiest team to ever enter the semi finals" and not get infracted for it, then why should i get infracted for this post?
Monaco is definitely up there for worst team to ever reach semi-finals (definitely worst to make finals) but at least they were doing well in France. Deportivo was a great team back in the early 00's, not sure what your point is. Sure Liverpool couldn't be good on a consistent basis but their tactics were great for CL. Still, they were one of the top teams in one of the top leagues...it's not like Schalke qualifying for Europe next season. Milan also may have not been consistent, but still they were one of the top teams in one of the top leagues. I don't think you can compare Schalke to either of these teams.
Are you referring to that second leg when Barca had a legitimate goal called offsides in the first half? And as I said numerous times, if ManU wins of course they would deserve it. I just said that Barca has been the best team this season and I'd like to see them win it.
I thought we agreed that beauty is subjective? And often times they didn't play as a team but when they did play well together it was amazing. Even when it was down to individual brilliance, it was the kind of individual brilliance that was great to watch (for me, at least). Guti, Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo...they were much more entertaining than the current crop, as great as Ronaldo, Di Maria, and Ozil are to watch.
Due to the vehemence with which you attacked my posts and some of your comments (Barca just dominates **** teams in a **** league, etc.) you sure made it seem like you disagreed. Also, as I said before, 'by far' is relative...our opinions on the difference between the two probably aren't even that different. I think the real difference is I see them as an historic team...any team that sets a record for points is an historic team, I think that's pretty much indisputable.
Oh really, you don't like League vs. League? Yet you are the one that brings up these debates every time by claiming that Barca aren't so good because their league is easy. I've even said over and over again that I think the Prem is (slightly) better than La Liga, it's not me who is starting these arguments.
Come on, you're accusing me of twisting words? Sounds like you didn't even pay attention to my post. I said historical matchups between teams don't matter, and I'm referring to statistics that refer to previous matchups 50 years ago (something people do all the time in all sports, which always bugs me). Mike showed statistics of ManU vs. Barca all time (most of the games were before Ferguson was there), and I said I don't really buy into that statistic (and of course I wasn't trying to make an argument about Barca being bigger/better than ManU historically). It's not even a part of our discussion at all. Obviously if we're comparing recent statistics, such as the amount of teams who have won the league in the past 15-20 years, those are pretty relavent.
This part of your argument "We know Chelsea, Arsenal, ManUtd can win the league and Liverpool, City and Spurs are not that far" is just wrong. City and Spurs were never, ever, ever going to win the league. When was that ever a possibility? The Prem is a two-horse race, used to be Arsenal and ManU, and then Arsenal became a selling club without ever having a shot at winning the league (this year was the closest they've been in a while, and they're still not ready yet, I think they might do it next year), so now it's ManU and Chelsea every year. This year was a one-horse race with ManU being the only team with a shot at it. Chelsea has been out of the race for most of the year, and Arsenal never had a real chance. Sure, ManU kept slipping up, so Arsenal has been close on points, but we all knew (other than a few biased Arsenal fans) that there was no way in **** they'd actually do it.
Everyone thinks they're the second best team in the world. They haven't won anything for a while because Barca has been so good and because they weren't that good of a team after Zidane retired. They just became the Galacticos 2.0. Last year was the first year and they were still gelling as a team. They've been together for a while longer now and they've upgraded by getting Ozil, Di Maria, and a great defender in Carvalho. They're arguably the most talented squad in the world, if not, they're definitely the second most. But I'm not just talking about talent...I'm referring to how they've played this season. They've been absolutely unstoppable.
No, you were the one who mocked La Liga so when I mentioned Arsenal I was just reminding people of the fact that they are the second best team in England. Schalke is the poorest team to qualify for the Semi finals, name me one team who qualified for the semis that spent that much of the season in the relegation zone...who changed managers that late in the season. I can't think of any teams in recent memory as bad as Schalke to have made it this far in the competition.
Inter were inconsistent and often times downright poor in Serie A last season. They only won it because Roma choked on the last day. They are an extremely talented team and well suited for CL football and they won the competition, but they were very lucky Barca had to drive from Barcelona to Milan for the game. Inter and Barca were definitely the two best teams last season, Barca was much, much better throughout the season, but Inter won when it counted. I give the slight edge to Barca, but that's just my opinion, no need to get angry about it.
Also, why the bit in caps about ManU? Where was I ever talking about how well ManU has done in Europe in the past 5 years? They've been very good in Europe in the past 5 years, are you happy? From 07-09 in fact, they were an amazing team. Not quite so much any more now that they lost C. Ronaldo and Tevez and their veterans are getting older. But that's not relevant at all to our discussion, and you're always bringing up ManU's successes as if I don't know or as if I was knocking on them.
Again, more La Liga trolling. So what if La Liga refs are stricter than the Prem refs? I think it's a good thing. The Prem is way too physical and the play suffers because of it. So do the players. One of our guys, Stuart Holden, has had two severe injuries now from atrocious tackles. I don't see how the terrible tackling of the Prem is such a good thing.
Obviously there will be examples in history of teams doing poorly in their leagues and doing well in Europe (Schalke being the best), but I don't think you can categorically separate their performances as 'different form.' Meaning just because Schalke played a few good games this season in Europe doesn't mean they have a shot at beating ManU.
So, you're a ****** off Schalke fan. If you're so angry about what I said and think I'm so dumb, why not bring up a counter-example? Maybe another team that has made it to the semi-finals that has struggled as much throughout the year? Yeah, they finished ahead of Lyon and Tel Aviv, big deal. They were very good last year but this year they have been very poor and you have to be a die-hard fan to disagree. I don't see why you're so angry about me saying what just about everyone is saying...
I hope Schalke goes to the finals, it'd be cool to see an upset like that and it would be very, very memorable. I also want to be appointed to the Man City job at the end of the season. That doesn't mean it will happen or that people should get angry at me for stating the obvious.
Seriously, dude? You are that offended? You must have been a very ****** off person this year, because Schalke have been criticized a LOT this year. They haven't been good, and everyone agrees with me on that, you even admitted it yourself. Why all the anger? All I did was state the obvious: that their probably has never been a team like this that made it to the semi-finals of the Champions League. At least Sunil tried to state examples. You didn't even name one and then just called me an idiot.
Also, why throw a tantrum if someone says your team is ****? It's the ******* internet. People say that ALL of the time here. Sunil said La Liga was ****, which is much more offensive. But as he said, it was a tongue in cheek comment, and it's the internet, where people use figures of speech like that. Calm down. You really should learn to thicken your skin a bit, do you have any idea how often American soccer gets trashed on the internet? How many times I have to hear people say our national team sucks? How many times I've heard the phrase "the MLS is ****, it's as good as League Two, etc. etc. etc.? But I act like an adult about it and don't get offended, because I realize that it's the internet and not real life and people should be able to post their opinions without having to worry about others getting upset about it. Somehow that makes me have "no respect for others I guess," but then that would mean hardly anyone in the world does...or maybe, just maybe, that you're being overly sensitive.
There's a big difference. I insulted a team (it's a soccer forum, it's done all of the time here) and you repeatedly insulted a poster. The latter is probably against the rules. And I think saying another team is doing poorly this season is a little less offensive than "You don't know the basics of culture." Also, you didn't even argue with my statement...how can I get in trouble for making a statement that you can't even provide a counter-argument to?
How about this, if Schalke advances to the final, I will do something crazy...maybe light my hair on fire and post the video on youtube. Or maybe I'll transfer 100 euro into your bank account. You can help me come up with ideas as long as it doesn't involve causing permanent physical damage (maybe the hair on fire isn't a good idea). If I'm willing to stand by my statements, why shouldn't I be allowed to make them?
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You should see some of my posts in the OT forum. But I write really ******* fast.
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