The Chelsea Thread

[Alcaraz]

Superbly well balanced article that needs reading ...

José Mourinho at the crossroads while his Chelsea project fragments | Dominic Fifield | Football | The Guardian

 

[sunilvk7]

Jose done by FA again for his behavior during half time. Apparently he refused to leave Ref's room and mentioned Wenger and going on about him. Hard to believe that but that's what Fifield posted in his article.

 

[Tezzz]

Should have a FM-base fan gathering would be interesting us lot on the lash

We should all support a lower league team together. Be a laugh. Mind you don't think I could sit next to your or Mike. Definitely not Alcarez.

 

[Alcaraz]

While his anger over the way the FA have applied punishments in respect to Wenger is understandable, to go on and on about it is just embarassing and petulant

 

[Alcaraz]

Superbly well balanced article that needs reading ...

José Mourinho at the crossroads while his Chelsea project fragments | Dominic Fifield | Football | The Guardian

Have to say while re-reading the article is that a lot of the senior players have let Jose down so far ..

1. Diego Costa returns to pre-season overweight. That's abolish tell inexcusable for a player who is earning millions every year plying his trade for one of the top clubs in the world. He is literally paid money to keep himself fit

2. Eden Hazard favouriting posts on Instagram. Seriously? He must be having a laugh if he thinks Madrid will go anywhere near him considering how his season is going

3. Matic getting himself sent off in a crucial game for two stupid fouls despite being thrust into the team at the expense of RLC who did nothing wrong and getting a vote of confidence from the manager

4. God even knows what Fabregas is up to really ...


Thats why it's important to ensure core of players includes some home-grown players or those who made their name at Chelsea. Players like Lampard, Drogba or Terry were ultra-professional and wouldn't have done some of the nonsense these guys did

 

[damola3]

While his anger over the way the FA have applied punishments in respect to Wenger is understandable, to go on and on about it is just embarassing and petulant

Even on punishments, he has no-one to blame but himself. The F.A. does allow the criticism of referee's, however Mourinho's charge was by attempting to influence outcomes by claiming that there's a conspiracy against his team. Should he have criticised the referee, the F.A. wouldn't have charged him. He seems to be obsessed with Wenger.

 

[sunilvk7]

Even on punishments, he has no-one to blame but himself. The F.A. does allow the criticism of referee's, however Mourinho's charge was by attempting to influence outcomes by claiming that there's a conspiracy against his team. Should he have criticised the referee, the F.A. wouldn't have charged him. He seems to be obsessed with Wenger.

No. Criticizing ref in public is against FA rules.

You can see that in section Respect Code of Conduct, Coaches, Team Managersand Club Officials

Never engage in public criticism of the
match officials

 

[damola3]

No. Criticizing ref in public is against FA rules.

You can see that in section Respect Code of Conduct, Coaches, Team Managersand Club Officials

The respect code of conduct is separate from the rules of the association. The only charge they can make from public comments is improper conduct which Mourinho was charged for. It states, "manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour". Mourinho was charged for acting improper and bringing the game into disrepute by claiming a conspiracy against his team. The FA won't charge for just criticising a referee, however they will if managers imply bias. There's a big difference between criticising a referee performance and claiming a conspiracy against your team.

 

[Alcaraz]

The respect code of conduct is separate from the rules of the association. The only charge they can make from public comments is improper conduct which Mourinho was charged for. It states, "manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour". Mourinho was charged for acting improper and bringing the game into disrepute by claiming a conspiracy against his team. The FA won't charge for just criticising a referee, however they will if managers imply bias. There's a big difference between criticising a referee performance and claiming a conspiracy against your team.

'Bringing game into disrespute' is such an ambiguous term. Isn't Wenger doing the exact same thing when he says that a 'weak and naive' referee was taking charge of their game implying that the FA and EPL were hiring incompetent officials?

 

[damola3]

'Bringing game into disrespute' is such an ambiguous term. Isn't Wenger doing the exact same thing when he says that a 'weak and naive' referee was taking charge of their game implying that the FA and EPL were hiring incompetent officials?

He criticised the performance of the referee as weak and naive. Even if it was personal, that doesn't warrant an FA charge as he isn't implying bias. Mourinho claimed bias against his team on multiple occasions, therefore he was charged.

 

[Subtle]

'Bringing game into disrespute' is such an ambiguous term. Isn't Wenger doing the exact same thing when he says that a 'weak and naive' referee was taking charge of their game implying that the FA and EPL were hiring incompetent officials?

Essentially yes, but he does it in a way that exploits a loophole in the wording. I'm sure Damola will argue otherwise but it's pretty clear that it's one of those RAW vs RAI cases where you can get away with things just because you're not technically doing anything wrong, even if the intention is the same.

 

[Mike.]

Have to say while re-reading the article is that a lot of the senior players have let Jose down so far ..

1. Diego Costa returns to pre-season overweight. That's abolish tell inexcusable for a player who is earning millions every year plying his trade for one of the top clubs in the world. He is literally paid money to keep himself fit

2. Eden Hazard favouriting posts on Instagram. Seriously? He must be having a laugh if he thinks Madrid will go anywhere near him considering how his season is going

3. Matic getting himself sent off in a crucial game for two stupid fouls despite being thrust into the team at the expense of RLC who did nothing wrong and getting a vote of confidence from the manager

4. God even knows what Fabregas is up to really ...


Thats why it's important to ensure core of players includes some home-grown players or those who made their name at Chelsea. Players like Lampard, Drogba or Terry were ultra-professional and wouldn't have done some of the nonsense these guys did

This is a hugely important point. The players are not the ultra professionals that were Lampard and co. The problem is that Jose hasnt changed his ways to reflect that, and that's where the trouble is coming. Ferguson treated different players differently. Barked at Scholes and Rio, but hugged Ronaldo. He knew his players inside out.

 

[Alcaraz]

This is a hugely important point. The players are not the ultra professionals that were Lampard and co. The problem is that Jose hasnt changed his ways to reflect that, and that's where the trouble is coming. Ferguson treated different players differently. Barked at Scholes and Rio, but hugged Ronaldo. He knew his players inside out.

Agree. I think last seasons title win had a lot to do with having senior figures like Cech, Drogba and Terry still in the dressing room who everyone could look towards and follow

This season, with Cech and Drogba gone and Terry not the influential player he once was, it seems like there is no character to really pull everyone up and recover the season. Costa has the character but he is new, can't speak English and didn't do himself any favours in the summer. Ivanovic has been playing like **** so he is hardly one to inspire. Cahill doesn't have the stature

I would expect someone like Fabregas to step up but I don't know what's going on with him really. Can't seem to form on the pitch at all. Maybe he lacks motivation having won nearly every trophy in the game now

 

[Alcaraz]

Essentially yes, but he does it in a way that exploits a loophole in the wording. I'm sure Damola will argue otherwise but it's pretty clear that it's one of those RAW vs RAI cases where you can get away with things just because you're not technically doing anything wrong, even if the intention is the same.

Yeah I figured. I can see why Mourinho would he angry but to go on and on about it when there are such huge problems on the pitch is rather pathetic and tiring

 

[damola3]

Essentially yes, but he does it in a way that exploits a loophole in the wording. I'm sure Damola will argue otherwise but it's pretty clear that it's one of those RAW vs RAI cases where you can get away with things just because you're not technically doing anything wrong, even if the intention is the same.

Not exactly... The FA fined Mourinho becaused he claimed that there was a conspiracy against his team, while Wenger criticised his refereeing performance. The FA define implying bias as worthy of an improper conduct charge. Arsenal Wenger didn't imply that the referee was biased. He stated that there was a "weak" and "naïve" performance. Mourinho has claimed that the referee was bias, hence they had to give him an improper conduct charge. The FA do this so that referees aren't influenced by an implication of bias. For example, a referee won't give Chelsea favourable decisions because Mourinho claimed a conspiracy. In essence, what they both said was completely different. There's a huge difference in criticising a referee performance on the day and claiming a nationwide conspiracy against your team.

 

[Alcaraz]

It's extremely subjective Damola

Some people might find having their professional ability question just as bad as having their professional integrity question. I personally think it's a slightly weird distinction to draw in any case when deciding whether or not to apply punishments

Why not just ban any criticisms of referees from managers? Or have a cooling off period before allowing managers to comment etc.

 

[damola3]

It's extremely subjective Damola

Some people might find having their professional ability question just as bad as having their professional integrity question. I personally think it's a slightly weird distinction to draw in any case when deciding whether or not to apply punishments

Why not just ban any criticisms of referees from managers? Or have a cooling off period before allowing managers to comment etc.

The criticism was of that particular refereeing performance. The referee's personal ability wasn't being questioned, just that particular refereeing performance. For example, if I said that Hazard was poor against West Ham, am I calling him a poor player? No, he's just stating that one particular refereeing performance was week and naïve. That's very different than saying that Mike Dean is a weak and naïve referee. His ability wasn't questioned, it was just that particularly shocking performance.

 

[Mike.]

Agree. I think last seasons title win had a lot to do with having senior figures like Cech, Drogba and Terry still in the dressing room who everyone could look towards and follow

This season, with Cech and Drogba gone and Terry not the influential player he once was, it seems like there is no character to really pull everyone up and recover the season. Costa has the character but he is new, can't speak English and didn't do himself any favours in the summer. Ivanovic has been playing like **** so he is hardly one to inspire. Cahill doesn't have the stature

I would expect someone like Fabregas to step up but I don't know what's going on with him really. Can't seem to form on the pitch at all. Maybe he lacks motivation having won nearly every trophy in the game now

It's why Rooney plays despite his form. It's why Bastian is so key as well. and we've been lucky that Smalling has continued to grow (he's now the 3rd captain). You need that spine.

 

[Mike.]

It's extremely subjective Damola

Some people might find having their professional ability question just as bad as having their professional integrity question. I personally think it's a slightly weird distinction to draw in any case when deciding whether or not to apply punishments

Why not just ban any criticisms of referees from managers? Or have a cooling off period before allowing managers to comment etc.

Wenger lucky not to be banned, but as you say, Jose is being pathetic abut it.

 

[Alcaraz]

Second problem is lack of competition and the 'untouchables' mentality ...

He let's Ivanovic play every game despite the fact he has been **** the whole year. He let's Costa play every game even though goals have dried up in 2015 completely. He doesn't bother seriously cultivating the youth players or giving fringe players like Remy an extended run in the team

Jose creates this 'untouchable' mentality which has borough him great success in the past with a group of uber-professional at Inter and Chelsea. But it's certainly not working at all with these players. They have only grown to be more complacent

Imagine if Costa seriously thought his threat was under place. He wouldn't have dared return to pre-season overweight. Ditto Hazard. It's no coincidence Willian's form improved exponentially as soon as his place was under threat from Pedro and even before rumours were circulating of us buying an AM so I am sure Willian realised what was going to happen if he didn't step up

Can't help but imagine that if we had brought in Stones, Pogba and Griezzman, some players would have not been so complacent