The Leeds United Thread

[noobito]

There is no doubt the contract Howson was offered was a improvement on his current contract, Was it was he wanted, Clearly not but it was a improvement considering his current one is the one he had in league one, Had he really wanted to lead the boyhood club into the premiership he would have signed the contract.He wanted premiership football and he wanted it as quick as possible so Bates had little choice but to accept the offer, The contract talks were going on for around 12 month so in truth his contract was'nt that low at the start of the talks he just dragged them out, Clearly if they dragged on for 12 month Bates did'nt want to sell him but Bates is'nt going to be bullied into paying wages he does'nt feel a player deserves.

Howson spend 12 month in talks and could'nt agree terms anyone who thinks with 6 month left on his contract that he should'nt have been sold is just stupid, 12 month is plenty of time to come to terms on a new contract if he really wanted to lead his boyhood club into the premiership he would have signed a new contract 12 month ago, Given it a 2-3 years and he still would have been young enough to play in the premiership had leads not made it there, He made the choice to keep turning down the offers so rightly so he was offloaded.

Beckford, Johnson and Kilkenny were all offered new contracts over a long period of time that they too kept rejecting, The only one who made it clear he was'nt signing a new contract was Beckford, The other two just let their contracts run down and left for free, Beckford the choice was made to keep him and get promotion and that worked for us, Had Johnson and Kilkenny made it clear they would'nt sign new contracts we could have sold them and used to funds to sign someone else but they did'nt so we lost them for free and now Bates has learned not to keep letting that happen and get the money for a player before he leaves once its clear the contract talks are dead.

As for Howson not handing in a transfer request, He really did'nt need to hand one in, He would be more than happy to ride out the last 6 month, See if we get playoffs and promoted, Then if we do he signs a new improved deal but if we dont he walks away on a free and the blame falls on Bates for not offering him a big enough contract, The fans fail to see that he was offered contract after contract for 18 month he just felt he deserved a better one which like it or not Bates feels he does'nt deserve.

I really hate how Bates runs the club in terms of signings, That is where we need investment and ofcourse long term contracts none of this 2 year bullshit because then this happens all the time, However i do respect his stance on wages, He wont be bullied into paying players wages he does'nt think they deserve and now he is atleast selling them rather than losing them on a free, Hopefully that money goes into signing replacements but only time will tell.

Now theres talks of protests about Bates and as much as a hate the guy, Protests are just not going to bother him at all, Hes a loud mouth old man who speaks his mind, Normally when noone asks him so those fans who think a protest will bother him or make him take notice more will see the exact same thing they saw earlier this season, A old man who just does'nt care what you think.

 

[Grenwald]

In terms of contract renewals, yes Bates has been offering new contracts, or more likely 1 of his puppets has been. But since Bates has been in charge, only 1 player has accepted a contract extension!! Just 1 (or so Im told, havnt checked myself yet). Why would so many players refuse to resign for the squad, esp last season when if we held the squad, not much reinforcement could of seen us up! OK BJ went to the prem, but Killa left for a 'lesser club' than leeds in term of history, etc. What the **** is bates offering that in 7 years only becchio has been willing to stay on again!! if 1 or 2 cases Im sure greed was a factor, but with so many examples something must be seriosuly wrong with what's being offered!!

 

[Giggles]

Rumours that Neil Warnock will replace Simon Grayson; What do you Leeds fans think of this?

Warnocks record in the Championship and getting promotion to the PL speaks for itself, although he's not done anything stand out in the PL. If Grayson was sacked [I'm not sure how likely that is, thats for you Leeds fans to decide] Warnock would be a key contender imo. Still, 11th in the league and 3 points off the playoffs; Its not a bad position?

 

[noobito]

Grayson being sacked i would be gutted, Considering the squad he has he is doing a very good job, Sometimes i question his choice of formation or where he plays players, Lees at RB when hes our standout CB this season for example but as far as position goes for the squad we have i'm happy being 3 points off the playoffs right now, I dont see us making the playoffs let alone promotion unless solid signings are made and i'm not confident on that happening, Give Grayson until the end of the season, See how far away we are then decide, Bringing in a new manager at such a late time with little time left for him to bring in players he wants is'nt likely to improve things.

As for contracts, Bates offers what he feels the player deserves, Is it enough, Clearly not for the players but thats how he does business and hes not going to change so fans getting worked up about it and protesting is going to do no good, He is'nt going to sell them club because he will get much more for it if we do get promoted and hes a sound business man who wont buckle to pressure from the fans, He knows the finances of the club and he knows what they can and cannot afford to pay players, Its all well and good assuming he can offer more to keep key players but we have no idea how the books look at the club so we cant say for sure if we can afford to pay them more wages, Yes i'm gutted we keep losing key players for the same reasons but i would rather that than us end up where we were a few years back which was pretty much ******.

Also apart from Beckford, Johnson and Kilkenny who exactly of any note have we lost due to contracts, Beckford made it clear he was'nt signing and we had the choice to sell him but we kept him to get promotion, That leaves Johnson who went to the premiership probably get more than we can afford right now and Kilkenny went because he felt the contract was'nt good enough, His choice but 2 players went to premiership and one just was'nt happy with the deal offered, I cant think of a single other player we have lost for free who was worth keeping so its not as bad as people are making it out to be.

You dont know how much Howson was offered and you dont know if he refused because he does want to play in the premiership as soon as possible like Beckford did, The difference is with Beckford in the team we could get promotion so the few million was'nt worth taking, Howson is NOT going to get us promoted and WILL leave at the end of season anyway so a sale is the best move for the club.

Once premiership clubs start sniffing around players they want more money, I dont care if you're a boyhood fan or not once you know theres interest in you from premiership clubs your demands go up, Johnson had interest from 3 premiership clubs so we cant compete with what they can offer, Kilkenny had interest from 2 premiership clubs but for som reason went to a championship side however his demands will have gone up once he knew of the interest from premiership clubs and if his demands are stupid Bates is right to tell him to **** off and when those premiership clubs decide against it he has no choice to but to leave for the championship club because Bates has made it clear his final offer has gone.Beckford had interest from alot of clubs but atleast he came out and said, No i'm not signing i want to leave but i will stay until the end of the season and try and help the club win promotion.

I dont care who the player is or who he supports if you think he will settle for less money just because its his boyhood club you're mistaken, Howson has the chance to earn more money and play premiership football so i dont blame him for not accepting the offers made to him but just because he did'nt get tied to a new contract cannot be all put down to Bates.

Yes losing players due to contracts is gutting but at the same time Bates cannot give in to demands because once one player is earning X ammounts when it comes time for the next renewel they too will want around the same wages and that will just keep adding up.

We have too much deadwood at the club that are taking up wages that could go towards keeping our key players but to release them would cost us more money and that comes straight out of the transfer kitty.Bromby, Bruce, Paynter, Chewbacca, Sam, O'Brien all should be gone and that would give us alot more in terms of wages, Yes it would leave us short in numbers but they dont even play when we have injuries we bring in kids like Lees, White, Thompson ect and they do the job probably better.Thats 6 players who between them probably earn 40-50k a week, Would rather see that money spent on keeping the likes of Howson, Snodgrass, Clayton ect.

 

[Jak]

Rumours that Neil Warnock will replace Simon Grayson; What do you Leeds fans think of this?

Warnocks record in the Championship and getting promotion to the PL speaks for itself, although he's not done anything stand out in the PL. If Grayson was sacked [I'm not sure how likely that is, thats for you Leeds fans to decide] Warnock would be a key contender imo. Still, 11th in the league and 3 points off the playoffs; Its not a bad position?

We were 4th a month and a bit ago, form has dipped significantly. Warnock would never come he hates Leeds. Don't think Grayson should be sacked, there's only so much you can do with no investment. I feel sorry for him really. Most fans will see what a great contribution he has made to this club.
noobito I appreciate Bates not giving into player demands but sometimes you have to pay more than you want for better players. Ok let Johnson and Kilkenny leave they don't deserve a pay rise. But Howson and Kasper did but weren't given it. As long as its not ridiculous (highly doubt it was) they should get an increase in pay. If what Grenwald is true then that is completely outrageous. (though Alex Cairns signed a new contract today but he's only youth)

 

[noobito]

I agree Jak giving them a small increase is a good idea, As far as Kasper goes i really never understood why he was sold, He was our standout player at the back in what was a really poor season in terms of defence and we let him go for peanuts, But as i said we have no idea how much Howson was offered in the contracts he turned down.

You do understand that even a 2k increase in wages for 4-5 players works out at a extra 500k a year from our profits, You give Howson that extra 2k a week (Deserved no doubt), Then you have Snodgrass, Clayton, Becchio, McCormack who will all expect the same come time to renew their contracts and theres your extra 500k a year just on those players alone.

You bump that up to a extra 5k a week which is what Howson should be getting from Norwich if not more and the club is out a extra million a year just on 5 players, 5k extra to some, 2-3k to others depending on their standing in the team and in a season or two you're shelling out a extra 1.5 - 2 million a year on wages, Thats all well a good for players who deserve it but that extra 1.5 - 2 million comes out of the transfer kitty its that simple, Bates just will not do both.

Then we would have fans complaining about lack of signings but when you're spending 2 million more a season on wages you dont have 2 million to bring in players its just simple maths.Give players bigger contracts at the cost of future signings or sell them and sign players on lower wages.

Its a tricky one because clearly the squad we have now is'nt good enough to get us promoted, Some of them are ofcourse but giving them a massive pay rise is going to result in less signings in the long run so either way renewed contracts or not we're going to have fans complaining about lack of signings.

I would like to see one or the other though, Either renew the key players contracts or sign players and not just loans, Right now we're getting neither so its understandable the fans are ****** off, We have'nt seen much of the money from Kasper or Gradel spent on players unless you count Pugh, Brown ect which i just dont, Oh and loans but thats not enough, Sign players, Renew contracts, One or the other or seriously just **** off Bates.

 

[Grenwald]

But with last seasons squad, if we had kept hold of these players, even say at the price of £1mil per season, keeping last years squad intact, coupled with a solid CB, maybe a LB, could of seen us with a serious promotion push. As a result of disullion, we have lost in the region of 3500 fans from each home game, (cant remember exact figure but its around somehwere)
at the average ticket price of £25, we stand to lose £87500 a match, that over a season equates to £2mil. surely it is more cost effective to keep the players on improved contracts, maintain momentum and build, keep the fans happy and coming to the ground!!
A real strong push, contending for top 2, could even see us going the other way, with an say extra 3500 fans, meaning bates would be making an extra 2mil! think of the shiney house in monaco the slime ball could get with that! and the £40mil from the prem! dont make sense to me!

 

[Jak]

I don't understand why we don't have money for transfers. well I do, it's Bates being a greedy *******. We have still seen basically 0 investment (Lonergan was a couple K and so was Pugh) from the transfers of Delph (a reported 6 mill with most probably coming over months), Kasper (was around £1M I think) and Gradel (also around £1 mill I think). It's just outrageous. Plus the fact we pay extremely high ticket prices and we still average crowds of 25000 + just leads me to think, where is this money going? We have little/ no debt (admittedly thanks to Bates) so where is this money going? We still haven't bought Thorpe Arch back yet ffs

 

[Frank]

I always like to see Leeds do well. It's a shame you've gotten us twice in the FA Cup, as your an exciting team to watch and a cup run for a team as big as Leeds would have been good.

Anyway, Simon Grayson is a very shrewd young manager, and I think that he will lead you to the Premier League in the next few years.

 

[Jak]

I always like to see Leeds do well. It's a shame you've gotten us twice in the FA Cup, as your an exciting team to watch and a cup run for a team as big as Leeds would have been good.

Anyway, Simon Grayson is a very shrewd young manager, and I think that he will lead you to the Premier League in the next few years.

our cup run last time almost ruined our season haha but thanks. He needs investment to get us up which doesn't look likely at the moment :/ maybe Bates will surprise us this month haha

At least we got Delph for a month, good signing but not a replacement for Howson. Need more Bates!

 

[Grenwald]

At least we got Delph for a month, good signing but not a replacement for Howson. Need more Bates!

A month is not long enough! it's a laughable attempt to make ammends for selling Howson IMO! Really wish I could be there for the protests tomorrow!!!!

 

[Jak]

A month is not long enough! it's a laughable attempt to make ammends for selling Howson IMO! Really wish I could be there for the protests tomorrow!!!!

whilst I agree with protests before the match I'm not sure I agree with boycotting the match. Yes it will be a clear message to Bates but it will also adversely affect our team, which needs all the support it can get atm

 

[Grenwald]

I'm not sure I agree with boycotting the match.

Agree mate, the major plus is it would cut of his money supply, he can't bleed it dry if there's no blood left! But my main worry with a boycott is the possibilty Bates wouldn't look to sell! He doesn't invest at the moment anyway, he's taken enough money to **** off to Monoca and retire he wants to, he's now here for greed. If we boycott and **** him off, he just say
"stuff it, Ive got enough out of them to retire, just going to fold the business!"
The argument about the team needing support I see differently, at the moment, what he is doing to the club is outrageous, the team can hopefully cope without our support for a few games, for the long term benefit of the club! so what if form drops, at this stage, relegation looks very unlikely this season, as do play-offs with our current form! what is there to lose? a few places in mid table mediocrity!

 

[Alcaraz]

Rumours that Neil Warnock will replace Simon Grayson; What do you Leeds fans think of this?

Warnocks record in the Championship and getting promotion to the PL speaks for itself, although he's not done anything stand out in the PL. If Grayson was sacked [I'm not sure how likely that is, thats for you Leeds fans to decide] Warnock would be a key contender imo. Still, 11th in the league and 3 points off the playoffs; Its not a bad position?

Warnock is a good candidate for the job although he may decide to retire instead of taking on a new job with a Championship club mid-season

 

[Jak]

Warnock is a good candidate for the job although he may decide to retire instead of taking on a new job with a Championship club mid-season

I just can't see him coming, he hates the club and the fans hate him :S would be brian clough all over again!

 

[Grenwald]

Leeds United Supporters Trust | One Voice, Your Voice - Blog - PRESS RELEASE: Supporters Trust campaign for regime change at the club

"The Leeds United Supporters Trust today calls for the Chairman and board of Leeds United to actively look to sell the club to owners whose ambitions and resources more appropriately reflect the stature of the club and its loyal fans. We believe the time is now right for the current regime to step aside and allow the club to move forward. Overwhelmingly the majority of our members have asked us to campaign for this.After 7 challenging years in control, our members believe that it is time for change at Leeds United and we believe the overwhelming majority of Leeds United supporters feel the same way therefore the Trust will be supporting peaceful campaigning for new ownership in the days, weeks and months ahead and we urge the Chairman and the board to listen"

We have a leader and clear voice to help us rid of Bates!!!!

 

[noobito]

Getting rid of Bates is'nt going to be easy, You only have to look at the old mans interviews to see he lives in his own little world and does'nt really care what he says or what anyone else thinks, Plus hes a business man and if anyone thinks hes going to sell up so easy with the chances of a massive windfall coming his way if the club do reach the premiership then they are mistaken, Ofcourse the chances of reaching the premiership with him at the club are not the best unless he does make some serious investment into the club.

As for Delph i'm very happy to see him back at the club, Its only for a month to start with but hopefully we can extent that if he does well, Personally i would rather we kept him until the end of the season and use the money from the Howson deal to sure up our defence which is clearly our weakest area, Also the money from the sales of Kasper and Gradel but i wont be holding my breath on that happening.

I do question Graysons signings though, Even though he does'nt have much to spend and does have to work with loans and frees alot of the time.We knew from last season where our weakest area was and the signings we made this season and are still making have done nothing to fix that area if anything it is worse since the loss of Kasper.

Chewbacca, Longergan, Brown, Rogers, Vayrynen, Forssell, Pugh, Keogh, Townsend, O'Dea and now Delph do very little to sold any defencive problems we had, O'Dea has been good some games but switched off in a few too and Lonergan is'nt that bad i dont think but without a solid defence infront of him he cant do too much.

The signing of Brown i never understood from day one, He was always going to be too slow and would never fit into what is a very young squad, Vayrynen and Forssell i feel the same about although Forssell could play his part later on in games i would rather have seen the wages used elsewhere.Pugh looked decent when we signed him and Townsend is looking quite useful too, Yet to see how Rogers will work out but theres no doubting Delph has the quality we need right now, As for Keogh the lad did a job when he was on loan and worked well with McCormack just a shame he lacked the goals.

However when you make 11 signings in one season and only 1 of them is a defender when your defence was the weakest area of the team last season theres something very wrong there, Yes Lees has really stepped up along with White and to a extent Thompson too but every Leeds fan has been crying out for a new CB from the start of the season and instead of getting one Grayson has signed 2 keepers, 6 midfielders, 2 strikers and one defender who i'm still not sure where his best position actually is because Grayson plays him all across the back.We need a CB with some experience because we are a very young side especially at the back if we have White, Lees and O'Dea the oldest is 24.

I'm not very confident in any other signings being made though but if we do make another signing before the window closes and it is anything but a defender then we will still be struggling for a top 10 finish and if its another winger then i will lose all faith in Graysons ability to sign players because that is the one area we do not need another player.

 

[GodCubed]

The fact that we (Villa) need more midfielders to make our new three-man midfield viable is offset by the return to prominence of Stephen Ireland, Ciaran Clark's versatility, Stiliyan Petrov's excellent form and the challenging youngsters like Chris Herd, Barry Bannan and Gary Gardner. With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see Delph extend his loan past the initial month.

 

[Athe~]

The fact that we (Villa) need more midfielders to make our new three-man midfield viable is offset by the return to prominence of Stephen Ireland, Ciaran Clark's versatility, Stiliyan Petrov's excellent form and the challenging youngsters like Chris Herd, Barry Bannan and Gary Gardner. With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see Delph extend his loan past the initial month.

I must say I was surprised by Ireland when we played you, it's like he suddenly remembered he is a football player.

 

[noobito]

The fact that we (Villa) need more midfielders to make our new three-man midfield viable is offset by the return to prominence of Stephen Ireland, Ciaran Clark's versatility, Stiliyan Petrov's excellent form and the challenging youngsters like Chris Herd, Barry Bannan and Gary Gardner. With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see Delph extend his loan past the initial month.

We've taken a few players from you on loan and they always seem to perform well, Lichaj did very well for us and i was suprised we did'nt try and bring him back in this season.I would have liked to have seen Bannan get more game time when he was on loan at us because he did offer us something different in that area and now having Delph back is a good move for both clubs, I always supported his move to Villa they had alot of british players at the club when he signed for them but that injury he had really set him back, Hopefully he can find the form he had at Leeds and return to Villa and start playing more games, Hopefully we do keep him for the season as it would be gutting for the lad to find his form only to return to Villa and not break into the team which right now does look unlikely.

Being on good terms with a team like Villa is very good for us, They have alot of promising young players and as a club that seems to be dependant on loans right now having a club that allows us to loan those players can only be good for us and the development of those players, Seeing as we're down to pretty much McCormack and Becchio until Somma returns from injury i would'nt mind us bringing Delfouneso in on loan if we're going to stick with loan signings, He has alot of pace something we are lacking in attack and with all the wingers we have at the club now i would expect him to get plenty of chances, With his pace and Becchio/McCormacks eye for goal i would'nt have a problem at all with him signing.