The Liverpool Thread

[Alex]

High court wont have any say on this Al. Suarez admitted he said something. The full ruling is coming out shortly

At the very very least I can see us appealing mate. High Court where appropriate can investigate if they deem the evidence as insufficient.

If Luis Suarez was racist then he deserves the ban and fine. However, everything points to it being a remark which is left to interpretation and opinion. Not sure the FA could ever be 100% sure.

 

[ajt09]

For the record, I may be saying things as Everton fan, but rivalry apart, if he admitted saying something derogatory, then the ban is fully deserved, simple as. I'd expect the same punishment if one of our players said it, a Wigan player said it, Blackburn, Spurs....whatever. Couldn't give a ****. It has to be punished. Something has obviously been recognised as grossly offensive and against the rules, so there it is. However, this should have been dealt with a lot sooner, it was allowed to drag on for far too long. Liverpool fans defend him, that's up to them. I'm not one to hurl insults or whatever-I'm an observer on this nothing more.

 

[Jak]

At the very very least I can see us appealing mate. High Court where appropriate can investigate if they deem the evidence as insufficient.

If Luis Suarez was racist then he deserves the ban and fine. However, everything points to it being a remark which is left to interpretation and opinion. Not sure the FA could ever be 100% sure.

they brought in language experts to review the interpretation and opinion, not sure what else the high court could do

 

[Alex]

they brought in language experts to review the interpretation and opinion, not sure what else the high court could do

Rule everything invalid, shake hands and get rid of the ban would be nice?

 

[Jak]

Rule everything invalid, shake hands and get rid of the ban would be nice?

would Suarez ride a flying pig farting rainbows to get there?

 

[Joel`]

At the very very least I can see us appealing mate. High Court where appropriate can investigate if they deem the evidence as insufficient.

If Luis Suarez was racist then he deserves the ban and fine. However, everything points to it being a remark which is left to interpretation and opinion. Not sure the FA could ever be 100% sure.

What can you ever be 100% sure of? The argument that the word has 2 separate meanings based on context, and given the context and nature of the game, the meaning of the word can be deemed as insulting, is a compelling argument, and it isn't difficult to at least understand​ how the FA arrived at the decision.

 

[Mike.]

Once thing that needs to happen is that the FA releases the full report as soon as possible.

 

[Alex]

My interpretation of events is;

The FA are reacting directly to the comments of Sepp Blatter that racism on the pitch should be cleared up with a handshake. The racism that they are referring to is key to understanding the issue - it isn't calling someone a name because you are racist, but to wind them up. Blatter argued that because it happens on the pitch and there is no menace to the racist comments thus it is okay, the FA are setting out a polarised stance which is that it is not okay, that it is abhorrent and that it needs to be kicked out.

Arguing that Suarez isn't racist is besides the point - the crux of the issue is that colour, creed and such should not be used to wind someone up. What the evidence will have shown (or been interpreted to show) is that Suarez DID say this to wind him up. I think Suarez' only defence is that race was not the root of him winding them up because in his country race is entirely irrelevant to the word negrito/negro and therefore he was winding him up, but his race was not part of that. This is all assuming that there is proof (body language etc) that Suarez' tone was aggressive and not friendly.

Taylor and the head of Kick it out were saying on 5 live that 'this doesn't mean he is a bad guy' constantly and that, for me, backs up my argument. They are not saying Suarez is a racist they are saying that he was trying to wind up Evra and he was prepared to use his race to do so. AND like I said, Suarezs only defence is that the word he used does not carry any racial connotations.

 

[Mike.]

My interpretation of events is;

The FA are reacting directly to the comments of Sepp Blatter that racism on the pitch should be cleared up with a handshake. The racism that they are referring to is key to understanding the issue - it isn't calling someone a name because you are racist, but to wind them up. Blatter argued that because it happens on the pitch and there is no menace to the racist comments thus it is okay, the FA are setting out a polarised stance which is that it is not okay, that it is abhorrent and that it needs to be kicked out.

Arguing that Suarez isn't racist is besides the point - the crux of the issue is that colour, creed and such should not be used to wind someone up. What the evidence will have shown (or been interpreted to show) is that Suarez DID say this to wind him up. I think Suarez' only defence is that race was not the root of him winding them up because in his country race is entirely irrelevant to the word negrito/negro and therefore he was winding him up, but his race was not part of that. This is all assuming that there is proof (body language etc) that Suarez' tone was aggressive and not friendly.

Taylor and the head of Kick it out were saying on 5 live that 'this doesn't mean he is a bad guy' constantly and that, for me, backs up my argument. They are not saying Suarez is a racist they are saying that he was trying to wind up Evra and he was prepared to use his race to do so. AND like I said, Suarezs only defence is that the word he used does not carry any racial connotations.

I like this a lot. It's on that reasoning that he had the insult pertaining to colour charge, as opposed to the racial abuse charge, which is far worse. I thiink they have also been stung into action becuase of the timing of the Blatter's comments, and given that we always talk about how strong we are on racism, they had to put their money where their mouth was. For their credit they brought in the expertise they needed and didnt try to fudge it, as far as we can tell without seeing the report.

 

[Alex]

I like this a lot. It's on that reasoning that he had the insult pertaining to colour charge, as opposed to the racial abuse charge, which is far worse. I thiink they have also been stung into action becuase of the timing of the Blatter's comments, and given that we always talk about how strong we are on racism, they had to put their money where their mouth was. For their credit they brought in the expertise they needed and didnt try to fudge it, as far as we can tell without seeing the report.

I'm still angry though.

 

[Jack Fulham]

I'm still angry though.

At Suarez?

 

[Giggles]

Suarez deserved more than 8 matches.

If I went to a football match, and said something racist to the person next to me, I would never be allowed back in a football stadium in my life. I don't see why its any different if its happened on the pitch? Racism is a criminal offence, why is Suarez being treated differently to any other normal person?

 

[Aannddyy]

So, what I've gathered from this is that Suarez was pretty much tricked into sounding like he is a racist. They had no evidence, nobody heard anything.. Basically, if Suarez had refused to comment then they would have nothing to use against him. That will teach Liverpool for cooperating with an FA investigation! Also, note I said 'sound' like a racist, one he admitted to using 'negro' the FA can ******* run with it.

Also, saying 'oh yeah I forgot Suarez hasn't lived in Europe for the last 5 years. OMGicanusesarcasmlookatmemom'.. What!? When did you guys become experts on foreign language? The truth is, none of you know anything about the way people talk to each other in Holland, Spain, Italy or anywhere for that matter when it comes to race so stop pretending you do. It's already been said that Evra's teammates sometimes refer to him as 'negro', just because we cannot comprehend that being said between Englishmen doesn't mean others don't say it. Evra has been in England a lot longer than Suarez, even though to some people 6 months is a lifetime to learn our culture.. Hm. We could easily say that Evra is taking advantage of Suarez using a word innocently just because he's a ****. Yeah, typical Liverpool fan comment... Well, prove me wrong?

Language experts, Huh? So they've got a language expert to look at a conversation? Huh? Evra 'Don't touch me, you South American' Suarez 'Porque, negro?' Hmm, because they can decide whether that is racist or not? If what Suarez said was racist then what Evra said is certainly some form of discrimination, racism maybe?.. And if anything was provoking Suarez. There is no tape, nobody else who heard the conversation to say exactly what and how anything was said so how could a language expert be involved? It's all opinion, and if you honestly think that Evra felt he was being racially abused then you're either naive or just choosing to be blind.

I'm not saying Suarez didn't use a word that could be seen as racist, I'm just saying this case is flimsy as **** and let's be honest, this outcome benefits everyone.. Apart from Liverpool.. And, of course Suarez who will has now not only been labelled as a diver and a cheat will now be labelled as a racist.. Hm, it's almost as even English people don't want world class players to play in the Premiership. Congratulations. But what do I know? I'm just a Liverpool fan.
​

 

[Dunc]

So, what I've gathered from this is that Suarez was pretty much tricked into sounding like he is a racist. They had no evidence, nobody heard anything.. Basically, if Suarez had refused to comment then they would have nothing to use against him. That will teach Liverpool for cooperating with an FA investigation! Also, note I said 'sound' like a racist, one he admitted to using 'negro' the FA can ******* run with it.

Also, saying 'oh yeah I forgot Suarez hasn't lived in Europe for the last 5 years. OMGicanusesarcasmlookatmemom'.. What!? When did you guys become experts on foreign language? The truth is, none of you know anything about the way people talk to each other in Holland, Spain, Italy or anywhere for that matter when it comes to race so stop pretending you do. It's already been said that Evra's teammates sometimes refer to him as 'negro', just because we cannot comprehend that being said between Englishmen doesn't mean others don't say it. Evra has been in England a lot longer than Suarez, even though to some people 6 months is a lifetime to learn our culture.. Hm. We could easily say that Evra is taking advantage of Suarez using a word innocently just because he's a ****. Yeah, typical Liverpool fan comment... Well, prove me wrong?

Language experts, Huh? So they've got a language expert to look at a conversation? Huh? Evra 'Don't touch me, you South American' Suarez 'Porque, negro?' Hmm, because they can decide whether that is racist or not? If what Suarez said was racist then what Evra said is certainly some form of discrimination, racism maybe?.. And if anything was provoking Suarez. There is no tape, nobody else who heard the conversation to say exactly what and how anything was said so how could a language expert be involved? It's all opinion, and if you honestly think that Evra felt he was being racially abused then you're either naive or just choosing to be blind.

I'm not saying Suarez didn't use a word that could be seen as racist, I'm just saying this case is flimsy as **** and let's be honest, this outcome benefits everyone.. Apart from Liverpool.. And, of course Suarez who will has now not only been labelled as a diver and a cheat will now be labelled as a racist.. Hm, it's almost as even English people don't want world class players to play in the Premiership. Congratulations.
​

Cool story! Sounds like you were there, maybe you could stand in defence of Suarez at the appeal hearing.

 

[Joel`]

So, what I've gathered from this is that Suarez was pretty much tricked into sounding like he is a racist. They had no evidence, nobody heard anything.. Basically, if Suarez had refused to comment then they would have nothing to use against him. That will teach Liverpool for cooperating with an FA investigation! Also, note I said 'sound' like a racist, one he admitted to using 'negro' the FA can ******* run with it.

He's been TRICKED? Yes yes, did Evra force him to say it? Did Ferguson and his FA buddies use subliminal messages, mind control!? To force him to say it?

Also, saying 'oh yeah I forgot Suarez hasn't lived in Europe for the last 5 years. OMGicanusesarcasmlookatmemom'.. What!? When did you guys become experts on foreign language? The truth is, none of you know anything about the way people talk to each other in Holland, Spain, Italy or anywhere for that matter when it comes to race so stop pretending you do.

And yet you're qualified enough to say what they DON'T say? The point is that EUROPEAN culture as a whole have different ways of acting. Just like in S.America, it's perfectly possible to use the word '******' and not mean offence by it, but European culture dictates that you don't say it in the vicinity of a black person, especially a stranger, and ESPECIALLY not in an aggressive context. Suarez covered all 3.

It's already been said that Evra's teammates sometimes refer to him as 'negro', just because we cannot comprehend that being said between Englishmen doesn't mean others don't say it. Evra has been in England a lot longer than Suarez, even though to some people 6 months is a lifetime to learn our culture.. Hm. We could easily say that Evra is taking advantage of Suarez using a word innocently just because he's a ****. Yeah, typical Liverpool fan comment... Well, prove me wrong?

Prove that Evra's teammates call him that. Prove that Evra is a ****. I mean, he never bit anyone, did he? That's pretty cuntish from where I'm looking. He's never swore at a whole stadium of fans simultaneously too, also pretty cuntish, wouldn't you agree?

Language experts, Huh? So they've got a language expert to look at a conversation? Huh? Evra 'Don't touch me, you South American' Suarez 'Porque, negro?' Hmm, because they can decide whether that is racist or not? If what Suarez said was racist then what Evra said is certainly some form of discrimination, racism maybe?.. And if anything was provoking Suarez. There is no tape, nobody else who heard the conversation to say exactly what and how anything was said so how could a language expert be involved? It's all opinion, and if you honestly think that Evra felt he was being racially abused then you're either naive or just choosing to be blind.​

Lal.

I'm not saying Suarez didn't use a word that could be seen as racist, I'm just saying this case is flimsy as **** and let's be honest, this outcome benefits everyone.. Apart from Liverpool.. And, of course Suarez who will has now not only been labelled as a diver and a cheat will now be labelled as a racist.. Hm, it's almost as even English people don't want world class players to play in the Premiership. Congratulations.

So, did you offer your support to Rooney? In a far more flimsier case. With a more inconsistent punishment? No?​

 

[Aannddyy]

He's been TRICKED? Yes yes, did Evra force him to say it? Did Ferguson and his FA buddies use subliminal messages, mind control!? To force him to say it?
And yet you're qualified enough to say what they DON'T say? The point is that EUROPEAN culture as a whole have different ways of acting. Just like in S.America, it's perfectly possible to use the word '******' and not mean offence by it, but European culture dictates that you don't say it in the vicinity of a black person, especially a stranger, and ESPECIALLY not in an aggressive context. Suarez covered all 3.


Prove that Evra's teammates call him that. Prove that Evra is a ****. I mean, he never bit anyone, did he? That's pretty cuntish from where I'm looking. He's never swore at a whole stadium of fans simultaneously too, also pretty cuntish, wouldn't you agree?


Lal.
[/SIZE]

So, did you offer your support to Rooney? In a far more flimsier case. With a more inconsistent punishment? No? [/LEFT]

Hm, you clearly took it the wrong way.. I mean, Suarez came out and said what he had said and will obviously regret it.. I never brought Ferguson into this, so I have no idea what you're talking about.. Mind control? Right.

You completely missed my point, again. No, I am not qualified to say what they don't say, I never said I was.. Why are you trying to pick my post apart by quoting things I haven't actually said? Right, well done.

EUROPEAN culture? Really? Right.. That's just ******* funny that you believe there is such a thing. We have different ways.. Yeah, go tell that to the Ukranians.. Or the Russians.. Italians.. Um, Spanish? Croatians.. There's more but I forget.

He didn't say ******, he said negro, which means black person.. Of course that depends on context, but just because Evra said it was aggressive doesn't make it so.. Not only that but starting a conversation with 'Don't touch me, South American' is hardly friendly.. Or PC.

Um, you obviously didn't that bit, it's okay.. But, yeah, Suarez bit someone, that's cuntish.. So is handballing in the World Cup.. But there's a difference between being a **** and a racist.

What are you talking about Rooney? What case?

 

[Dunc]

Not only that but starting a conversation with 'Don't touch me, South American' is hardly friendly.. Or PC.

How's that not PC, considering Suarez is from Uruguay.. which is in South America when I last checked..

It's like someone calling us European, I would hardly call that offensive in the slightest, and to warrant being compared to something racially aggravating is completely laughable.

 

[Aannddyy]

How's that not PC, considering Suarez is from Uruguay.. which is in South America when I last checked..

It's like someone calling us European, I would hardly call that offensive in the slightest, and to warrant being compared to something racially aggravating is completely laughable.

No, no it's not. Suarez called him 'black', that being racist is completely laughable.. But, it is considered racist. Not wanting somebody to touch you because they are South American is discrimination.. You can't have one rule for one....

 

[bambam.cam]

On the other side if this ban+fine+potential career ruiner for Suarez was given with no real evidence and just on Evra's word then the FA are absolute jokes. I dont condone racism at any level but if this is how the FA reached their conclution on just Evra's word then for me this world will go back to slavery (which was wrong in every sence of the way) but with black people in control.

youve hit the nail on the head

by the way, my opinion: evidence should be given for a certain player to be rendered a racist, context differecials are fine to a point, but if both players were using remarks and one decides to take action whilst the other has the dignity to move on then Patrice Evra is a very small man. The FA has run with this trying to set an example on matters which are blown out of proporsion.
There seem to be a few holes in Evra's argument anyway. I reckon Its an absolute joke and I dont really understand why the magnitude has exploded into the size it has.

 

[Joel`]

Hm, you clearly took it the wrong way.. I mean, Suarez came out and said what he had said and will obviously regret it.. I never brought Ferguson into this, so I have no idea what you're talking about.. Mind control? Right.

Sarcasm. Cuz the FA and everyone else hates you nd all dart.

You completely missed my point, again. No, I am not qualified to say what they don't say, I never said I was.. Why are you trying to pick my post apart by quoting things I haven't actually said? Right, well done.

I got your point fine. You said we're not qualified to comment on language in this country, but your argument in that paragraph is inherent on the fact that they don't speak as we stated, otherwise it's a moot point, and you are not qualified either to say that they don't speak like that, thus it was a moot point.

EUROPEAN culture? Really? Right.. That's just ******* funny that you believe there is such a thing. We have different ways.. Yeah, go tell that to the Ukranians.. Or the Russians.. Italians.. Um, Spanish? Croatians.. There's more but I forget.

Three of those are eastern European, which are completely different to central Europe, and Holland, the country in question. Holland and the UK are two of the most culturally and ideologically close countries within the EU. And yes, a central European culture does exist, it's far less tolerant to racism than a **** of a lot of places.

He didn't say ******, he said negro, which means black person.. Of course that depends on context, but just because Evra said it was aggressive doesn't make it so.. Not only that but starting a conversation with 'Don't touch me, South American' is hardly friendly.. Or PC.

Because Suarez and Evra were getting along oh soooo well that whole game, and Liverpool-United are all soooo friendly with each other, but no, Suarez decided to take a break from being heated with Evra to just say a jolly little comment.

Um, you obviously didn't that bit, it's okay.. But, yeah, Suarez bit someone, that's cuntish.. So is handballing in the World Cup.. But there's a difference between being a **** and a racist.

He hasn't been charged with being a racist.

What are you talking about Rooney? What case?

Ban for swearing on camera.