The Liverpool Thread

[Scouseinthehouse]

Apparently, Keita been sent off for a high foot to the face .....

Cue every Evertonian I know with the actual ability to press buttons texting me 'That be rite. The Redsh*te buying another thug after Mané. He deserves that club. They all want locking up them Redsh*te Norweigen gobsh*tes .....' or the like n 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 .....

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

It does matter. He's not above criticism. Just because he doesn't see anyone else, doesn't mean he's right.

You're telling me he's not above criticism? You want to read this thread. He get's a lot of it when warranted.

The point is it doesn't matter saying he should buy this or that (I personally only agree with one of your 4 still so I could equally say I don't think you're right. But that's neither here nor there) as it's a futile debate when there's only one man on the table in reality.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

What's Utd's best centre-half partnership?

Pick 2. Any two. Bailly and Rojo?

Put them in the Liverpool team and you aren't improving our defence to any significant degree because we don't have a 'keeper behind them they can rely on if they F up like de Gea and we don't have anyone sitting protecting. That all makes a MASSIVE difference but we neither have that nor play that way to afford them guaranteed protection.

Just changing personnel at CH isn't fixing our defensive woes.

 

[Mike.]

What's Utd's best centre-half partnership?

Pick 2. Any two. Bailly and Rojo?

Put them in the Liverpool team and you aren't improving our defence to any significant degree because we don't have a 'keeper behind them they can rely on if they F up like de Gea and we don't have anyone sitting protecting. That all makes a MASSIVE difference but we neither have that nor play that way to afford them guaranteed protection.

Just changing personnel at CH isn't fixing our defensive woes.

Not sure what your point is here. Rojo and Bailly didn't have a sitter last year, and they were still excellent. Unted still gave up less chances on goal last season(which means the comparison between keepers is irrelevant)

 

[Mike.]

All of the players I mentioned can play without sitters, and function as first defenders: that is, they lead and control the defensive line of the side, its explicitly why i picked them out.

 

[RhQQ]

Put Bailly in the heart of that defence and you're significantly making your team a lot more counter-resistant, and much less error-prone. Lovren is bone-headed; always a bad action to follow a good one. Majority of our CB's walk into Liverpool's side and would improve it. There's at least one CB at each of the top 8-9 teams (if you're including Leicester (Maguire) & Southampton (Van Dijk), who I'd regard the best of the rest) that have a CB that would add more reliability to Liverpool's defence.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Not sure what your point is here. Rojo and Bailly didn't have a sitter last year, and they were still excellent. Unted still gave up less chances on goal last season(which means the comparison between keepers is irrelevant)

You still played VERY defensive as a team last year to protect them. We don't. We take risks all over. It's a major difference.

And you know full well the 'keeper behind them is massively relevant. You put Mignolet in your goal. Even the way Morinho traditionally sets up. And they'll be panic and more goals conceded.

It's all majorly relevant. I'd only take Bailly from Utd to upgrade our middle given his speed and ability one-on-one. Everything else would be no significant increase down to being a totally different environment to what they're used to doing.

Our defensive isn't great but it's not half as bad as it's often made out compared to the rest of the league.

Lovren looked F-ing WC at Southampton with Wanyama and Schneiderlin sat in front of him. Now he looks anything but out on an island on his own. All relative.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Ta for the shot graphs BTW.

Interesting reading.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Just seen on a tweet about the Burnley game: 'We drew. Move on. Have a bevvy!'

That should be a mantra for all life's disappointments!

 

[Mike.]

You still played VERY defensive as a team last year to protect them. We don't. We take risks all over. It's a major difference.

And you know full well the 'keeper behind them is massively irrelevant. You put Mignolet in your goal. Even the way Morinho traditionally sets up. And they'll be panic and more goals conceded.

It's all majorly relevant. I'd only take Bailly from Utd to upgrade our middle given his speed and ability one-on-one. Everything else would be no significant increase down to being a totally different environment to what they're used to doing.

Our defensive isn't great but it's not half as bad as it's often made out compared to the rest of the league.

Lovren looked F-ing WC at Southampton with Wanyama and Schneiderlin sat in front of him. Now he looks anything but out on an island on his own. All relative.

Actually, we didnt play all that defensive at all, still a 4-2-3-1 for the most part, relatively high line

The keeper is irrelevant when it comes to chances on goal.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Never realised in live action yesterday the Burnley lad Mee completely took out Salah for a stonewall penalty before Dom hits the bar late.

Couple that with Taylor allowing the clear Watford off-side equaliser and that's 4 points already through 5 games bad officiating has cost without even getting into Mané again. Being currently 5 points off City, these poor decisions are consistently costing teams millions in the final reckoning come May.

So much for 'professional' referees.

 

[Theatre of dreams]

Never realised in live action yesterday the Burnley lad Mee completely took out Salah for a stonewall penalty before Dom hits the bar late.

Couple that with Taylor allowing the clear Watford off-side equaliser and that's 4 points already through 5 games bad officiating has cost without even getting into Mané again. Being currently 5 points off City, these poor decisions are consistently costing teams millions in the final reckoning come May.

So much for 'professional' referees.

Said the same in the Prem thread.

 

[epic terrorist]

https://twitter.com/TheBeardedRaul/status/909091797363822593

Amazing hahaha

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Too much of that yesterday. Particularly late.

Aside from having 8 shots saved and a further 12 on goal blocked yielding just 1 goal, there was a lack of composure in and around the box far too often. L'pool we're in complete control for virtually the full 90 but didn't create enough clear-cut scoring chances. Instead, second half in particular, resorting to more hit and hopes from outside the box. And they were cutting through Burnley with ease most the game which it made it more frustrating.

The profligate attack let the team down as much as anything the defence did wrong. For the second time in 4 days.

But everyone all over is just pointing to the one piece of awful defending that resulted in Burnley's goal as it suits their rhetoric better on L'pool's defence.

*Edit* I only seen this as I was up early this AM but frigging Shearer MOTD slamming Klaven in particular. No problem their IF he'd also had a go at Can for switching off and not being arsed to stay with Arfields run from midfield to be in a position to score. His type of agenda driven, B/S analysis drives you mad,

 

[RhQQ]

The very few attacks/half chances Burnley had/created, set pieces included, they looked like scoring from. It's not some crazy agenda against Liverpool's defence, it's reality. Taking risks up the pitch doesn't stop you from defending set pieces well, or being organised enough to deal with a long direct ball. These are the basics. It's not like your CB's were exposed in some break away 3v2/4v2 situation for these chances.

For the goal, MOTD says Robertson should've been more central, I'm not buying that tbh. 2 CB's go for the same ball (and got beat to it), in fairness to Matip, he's in a decent position, could've been more aggressive perhaps, but in the right sort of area. But what Klavan does here I'll never know?

^ Clearly sees the situation, all he needs to is hold his position more or less and cover Matip, not 'charge' into his battle.

I use 'charge' very loosely, as look at his flimsy 'ah don't hurt me' body language when he eventually gets there:

Completely vacates the space. Had he of been in this area, which he should've, there's a strong possibility he blocks the shot, or maybe even stop the ball getting to Arfield.

Definitely communication/concentration issues, which again, tends to happen in these profile of games in which the opposition are there to absorb pressure, ride their luck, and try to completely sucker punch you in targeting identified weaknesses.

Should you have scored more than 1 goal? Absolutely. After last season, nobody knows this better than United fans. But should you be able to deal with the 2 or 3 threats posed from negative opposition? 100%. As much as you don't like people saying it, you struggle to do so. Attacks win games, defences win championships.

Maybe you do have systematic flaws defensively, but you can't deny a more competent CB deals with this situation better than Klavan.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

And where's Emre Can again in the last photie as the free Arfield is striking the ball?

Nowhere as he's completely not arsed to track him back after being alongside him two pictures earlier.

THAT'S an agenda. To completely ignore the other major failings outside the centre halfs in that instance.

*Edit* The same way Can completely ***** out of a tackle the edge of the box against Sevilla their first. But Lovren gets all the stick for leaving his man the middle. No question he deserved it. But it starts the midfield and would never have got that stage had Can done hie job.

We attack as a team. We defend as a team. It's not all on the back line regardless of any mistakes they make.

 

[RhQQ]

No doubt a CM could've tracked the run, but you're ignoring the schoolboy error that no PL CB should make, let alone one of a CL club.

....I just want a competent defence that doesn't gift the opposition goals yer know? That's not asking for much is it? Don't have to be World beaters. Just reliable lads that will do the basics. They get beat fair and square then fair *****. You can accept that. But to completely dominate supposedly the second best team the group and have it all undone with two shocking pieces of defending just frustrates the living **** out of you...

And I don't have an agenda; deep down you know I'm right. In fact, you sing from the same hymn sheet.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

No doubt a CM could've tracked the run, but you're ignoring the schoolboy error that no PL CB should make, let alone one of a CL club.

Uhmmm, no, nobody's ignored that. Klaven's rightly been criticised.

The point is the idots the media that just run with their rhetoric on the CH's without looking at everything else.

Bottom line. The attack isn't so profligate this week, we beat Sevilla and Burnley. If your defence can't make a mistake without it costing the game when you dominate two teams to such an extent somethings wrong. The same way as at Watford, the other end shouldn't need to score 4 away to win.

It's a team issue as much as any individual.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

..... And I don't have an agenda; deep down you know I'm right. In fact, you sing from the same hymn sheet.

Well we already discovered you don't have much idea on this Liverpool side from your refusal to acknowledge any cold hard facts on the misconceptions on how they don't struggle to break down deep-lying teams for one yesterday.

But you're completely missing the point from quoting directly after the game Wednesday.

No question we need to cut our stupid individual mistakes. No question we need an upgrade at centre-half. But no question as much as three mistakes cost us, equally if not more did the profligacy the other end this week.

The team, back to front, shares in the blame for both draws the last four days.

You know, I sat and watched a pretty darn average United performance the day before against Basle. You, through defensive mistakes, gift wrapped them two massive chances that should have had them go in at half-time level. And continued to afford them a lot of space second half. Just they aren't of any significant quality to take advantage. And you score 3 so it's a comfortable win.

Liverpool get punished twice for two mistakes as Sevilla are of a far better quality and fail to add a third to kill the game.

What's the difference in reality in those games? Fine margins.

 

[RhQQ]

Yes, and you drew 1-1? My point stood; you struggle to get results in these type of games. If you don't score 2+, there's always obvious, unresolved weaknesses for the opposition to target. You shouldn't need to score 2+ against Burnley at home to get a win. You often pointed out Sir Alex having a similar mindset to Klopp in terms of attack wins this league, but a defence is pivotal too. In the 2007/08 & 2008/09 seasons (our best era of the century), we had 14x 1-0 wins in the league. 14! So 25% of our league wins in this period were 1-0.

To be champions, 1 goal has to be enough sometimes. To score 2 & 3+ to win a game isn't sustainable. It will bring you enjoyment when you're sat in the stadium and what not's, but will it win you championships?

Basel? Could've done better with the headed chance, don't recall anything clearcut other than that. Would've liked Bailly & Jones on the pitch over the fraud that conned me and so many others in LvG's time, Smalling, and a lowly confident & match rusty Lindelof, but it was fine.