The Liverpool Thread

[Dunc]

If Suarez could finish he would be a good poacher? well... dur? Isn't it a poacher's job to finish?

That's like saying 'He'd be a good actor if he could act'

If you want to take an extremely simplistic view on it. You need the right movement to get into the positions needed to score, which many strikers seem to lack, you can be the best finisher in the world, but if you don't get into the right places to shoot or predict where the ball will be going, you won't score many goals. You need the technique, first touch, heading, speed, acceleration, dribbling (to an extent for the last three).. yeah you need quite a few attributes. Rarely do you find a player that has all of them, Suarez has most of them, and who is to say his finishing won't improve.

As someone said, I'd like to see us go in for Huntelaar, I've been calling for it for 3 seasons now, really want to see him in England. He's a more realistic option than someone like Fernando Llorente.

He has the build that, you imagine, would do well in the Premier league. Would be a good signing for any club over here.

 

[LFCMarshall]

via Brian Durand
Liverpool results in last 7 games Andy Carroll's started: WWDWWWW – Last 9 without him: DDDLLLLLL

​

This stat really made me laugh:

I think is shows how much an extra attacking option helps Liverpool, because we dont commit enough players, the reason why we dont score enough. Although Carroll is not a world beater he gives another option and allows Suarez to push up abit more

Liverpool need a goalscorer and a Creative midfield type player.

Keep Agger and Lucas fit and we had one of the best defences in the league

Just our attack needs changing!

 

[Shockhorror.]

I think it's obvious Suarez has some kind of finishing ability. You don't score that many goals (for Ajax) by having none. He just hasn't shown it enough in the premier league yet. Maybe it's a pressure thing.

 

[Joel`]

I think it's obvious Suarez has some kind of finishing ability. You don't score that many goals (for Ajax) by having none. He just hasn't shown it enough in the premier league yet. Maybe it's a pressure thing.

The Dutch league is notorious for having previously prolific strikers in the Dutch league, only to flop in the PL.

 

[GodCubed]

Didn't think you would need to lower yourself to a Heskey 'joke' to try and prove a point. Comparing Suarez to Heskey is a bit like comparings AIDs and cancer. Both illnesses, but at the same time completely different. I am also a little perturbed at how insighted you seem to be about Suarez's future. Let's look at a striker who is somewhat similar to Suarez, rather than on old, slow target man, maybe Torres for example. His conversion rate this season must be pretty low. I imagine he has spent less time on the pitch than Suarez, and has probably had less chances to miss. Now, only 2 or 3 seasons ago, Torres was one of the best forwards in the world, currently he looks about as comfortable in front of goal as a **** at a bar mitzva. I am sure Suarez won't be as good as Torres was when he was at his prime, but I don't think you can categorically say 'no point wishing for something that won't happen', he probably won't turn into Pele, but if he upped his conversion rate by a mere 10-15% next season, which may happen, he would be a very handy striker. You can't be sure how he has really settled here, or how much the Evra issue has affected him, so he may well be a much more clinical player one those things have had a bit more time to get out of his head. Personally I think he has the potential to become a 20+ goals a season striker, whether he does is a different matter, but Liverpool need one, so if he doesn't become one, they need to buy one. Carroll, Kuyt and Bellamy wont get you 20 goals each a season, and if you want to be challenging for the top four, you need a RVP, Adebayore, Rooney, Agureo or... Demba Ba! (ps hands off!)

So, yeah.

Hardly a joke, it's the truth. As a striker, Heskey more or less has it all (or did, in his prime; he's not quick now): pace, strength, aerial ability, good hold up play, selflessness, and so on and so forth. It's just that his biggest weakness also happened to be the thing that most strikers earn a crust with.

I see your point, and I'll revise my wording. My point was that there's no point waiting around hoping for Suarez to prove his goalscoring ability, since it's negatively impacting the team. Sure, Liverpool could give him another season before he starts banging them in, but if they do and he doesn't (which has a fair chance of happening) then they'll have spent another entire year wallowing around in the upper mid table, going neither forwards nor backwards, due to a lack of a poacher.

Whats the story behind Emile Heskey? I never understood all those inside jokes and comments about him.

Apparently people dislike strikers who can't score, but try their hardest and work their heart out. No, wait, I don't mean dislike, I mean actively hate.

 

[GodCubed]

I think it's obvious Suarez has some kind of finishing ability. You don't score that many goals (for Ajax) by having none. He just hasn't shown it enough in the premier league yet. Maybe it's a pressure thing.

The same was said of Afonso Alves. The Dutch league seems to produce just as many (and probably more) Kezmans as it does Van Nistelrooys.

 

[rephlex]

I don't think people hated him, they just as opposition fans found it amusing when Heskey used to beat his man, land defenders on his backside, but roundly fail to finish again and again, indeed it got to the point where playing for England you'd almost rely on him to not finish chances.

It was especially obvious because this was in the era of Robbie Fowler, Andy Cole, Owen etc. Players who added little to their team beyond the ability to run onto a through-ball and finish. That was it. Heskey was the antithesis to this, as Godcubed says, and certainly wasn't a "standard" striker, so got a lot of attention which turned into a joke.

 

[Shockhorror.]

The Dutch league is notorious for having previously prolific strikers in the Dutch league, only to flop in the PL.

The same was said of Afonso Alves. The Dutch league seems to produce just as many (and probably more) Kezmans as it does Van Nistelrooys.

Very true. Although my point was they obviously have the ability to score, just obviously can't handle it in the PL. I expected better from Suarez though, tbh.

 

[Jack Fulham]

The same was said of Afonso Alves. The Dutch league seems to produce just as many (and probably more) Kezmans as it does Van Nistelrooys.

They must have bigger goals in Holland, the amount of times he'***** the woodwork.

 

[Lee]

They must have bigger goals in Holland, the amount of times he'***** the woodwork.

I remember Dirk Kuyt hit the post a lot in his first season for us so you could be onto something.

 

[Jack Fulham]

I remember Dirk Kuyt hit the post a lot in his first season for us so you could be onto something.

Afonso Alves as well.

In fairness to Suarez, he has actually looked good unlike Alves and Kezman but hasn't scored much. Pretty sure Lee I think said he always goes for the difficult goal rather than the simple one which I think is a good observation of him.

 

[Lee]

 

[Quasit]

Nothing special, but promising finnish youngster from HJK joins Liverpool for one week trial. Had debut in first team last season and scored 33 goals in 23 matches for B team in 2nd division.

 

[PZW]

I read somewhere that if the league had started in January, Liverpool would be rock bottom. I think it might have been the BBC Live Text, although that's not important. The thing is, we are on such a bad run at the moment, losing to QPR and Wigan is just appalling! We really need to turn it around, somehow. Maybe the FA Cup game against Everton/Sunderland will give us a little but of a break?

​- PZW

 

[Aannddyy]

"If you can't support us when we draw or lose, don't support us when we win" - Bill Shankly.

 

[Zebedee]

Interesting piece by Tony Evans in the Times. Bascombe's piece is overblown but has the same message. Interesting questions being asked.

Said it a few weeks back in another part of the forum, we need to figure out a way to fit Suarez and Gerrard into the team. The main questions are:

Who plays up front if we move Suarez wider (as we should do)? Carroll has yet to string more than 3 starts in a row for us. What's going on there? Kuyt looks like he's being moved out.

How do we cover for Suarez' if he is out wide?

Where does Mr.S.Gerrard fit into the team currently? Are the demands of playing further forward now beyond him completely? If so, what next for him? Because much as I love him, he ain't doing anyone any favours picking the ball up from Skrtel's toes 20 yards from our goal.

Not sure that quote is Shankly Aannddy btw It looks like a reworking of that 'if you can't handle me when I'm bad, you don't deserve me when I'm good'.

 

[Aannddyy]

Not sure that quote is Shankly Aannddy btw It looks like a reworking of that 'if you can't handle me when I'm bad, you don't deserve me when I'm good'.

I'm pretty sure it is. ):

Either way, my point still stands..

 

[Zebedee]

I'm pretty sure it is. ):

Either way, my point still stands..

Aye, agree with the point you're making for sure.

 

[Mike.]

Interesting piece by Tony Evans in the Times. Bascombe's piece is overblown but has the same message. Interesting questions being asked.

Said it a few weeks back in another part of the forum, we need to figure out a way to fit Suarez and Gerrard into the team. The main questions are:

Who plays up front if we move Suarez wider (as we should do)? Carroll has yet to string more than 3 starts in a row for us. What's going on there? Kuyt looks like he's being moved out.

How do we cover for Suarez' if he is out wide?

Where does Mr.S.Gerrard fit into the team currently? Are the demands of playing further forward now beyond him completely? If so, what next for him? Because much as I love him, he ain't doing anyone any favours picking the ball up from Skrtel's toes 20 yards from our goal.

Not sure that quote is Shankly Aannddy btw It looks like a reworking of that 'if you can't handle me when I'm bad, you don't deserve me when I'm good'.

Who plays up front if we move Suarez wider (as we should do)? Carroll has yet to string more than 3 starts in a row for us. What's going on there? Kuyt looks like he's being moved out.

That's the £35 million pound question. Stick with Carroll and build a consistent understanding.

How do we cover for Suarez' if he is out wide?

Maxi Rodriguez or Bellamy for now?

Where does Mr.S.Gerrard fit into the team currently? Are the demands of playing further forward now beyond him completely? If so, what next for him? Because much as I love him, he ain't doing anyone any favours picking the ball up from Skrtel's toes 20 yards from our goal.

Not convinced he does fit, maybe as a treq behind Carroll, limited running, but always seeking space, but you need to have the two hard working passers behind, and you have lost Lucas for the season.

 

[thekill]

Adams out for rest of the season.