The Liverpool Thread

[LFCMarshall]

Before it starts, dont get this into a Chelsea v Liverpool thing....

 

[Aannddyy]

Before it starts, dont get this into a Chelsea v Liverpool thing....

I didn't mean it like that.. I mean, Liverpool have hopefully got over the worst of their transition while Chelsea's has only just started.

 

[Mike.]

What....? This article isn't about our current form, it's about the season as a whole, that's quite obvious. We have played a lot better than most of our opponents this season, we just haven't been able to finish when required.. I think it is you that is watching a different Liverpool.

There are a lot of games that we could and should have won, such as the ones he listed, Norwich, Blackburn, Arsenal, and United, amongst others.. It's not an excuse, merely an observation, we are playing much better than we were under Hodgson, simple. Also, what makes you think he's trying to "gloss over" our failings by stating we've beaten some big clubs away from home?... :S

Again with the "relegation form" thing, the season as a whole has been positive.. Our recent form has been terrible, yes, but there is much more to our season than the past 5 or 6 games.. You don't judge Chelsea purely on their bad run of form they had a few months ago do you? No.

You really want to compare Chelsea's squad with Liverpool's? Chelsea, last seasons runners up with Liverpool, a club who have been struggling to even get in the top 6 for the past three years? LOL, okay then.

Anyway, regardless of our current form we are better than we were last year, we are moving in the right direction, unlike Chelsea... Just sayin'.

I dont understand why you feel the need to have a petty dig at Chelsea, considering that he didn't actually have a go at Liverpool.

It isnt just recent form, its since january, that's 3 months and 12 league games if i recall correctly, from which you have taken 8 points. Transition or not, that is not good at all.

You have won just 5 league games at home all season.

What ever progression that is gone before, has all but disappeared, and the club are badly stalling you've lost 6 of your last 7, most of them fairly so.

Teams don't "deserve" to win games. If you create lots of chances and finish none, then your possession counts for nothing. Finishing poorly and running out of idea's in the final third doesn't mean too much, if the other sides goes and counters well and takes their chances. Whats more is that you have failed to learn from this, and not only that, you aren't even doing the good work of the first half season, getting outfought in most games since Jan.

Indeed its now debatable whether you really are moving in the right direction, a lot of the good work has been undone. Liverpool have always tried to be about the league title throughout their history, its their meat and drink, on that basis the club is stuttering badly, in fact its probably failing right now. Winning the Carling Cup and being in the FA Cup semi final doesn't gloss over that. Unless you are trying to say that Liverpool are striving to be a mid table cup team, which i very much doubt.

The season as a whole has been been one that started to progress well of sorts, but has faltered halfway through, via multitude of reasons on and off the pitch, leaving Liverpool in a precarious position come the summer, a lot of troublesome things going on upstairs, and if Zebedee turns out to be reliable as ever, you have some serious issues to resolve that impact where Liverpool head over the next 4-5 years.

Think both players could come good, when the club actually settles on a coherent system.

Its a mish mash of clashing thoughts from top to bottom, and until tahts dealt with, Liverpool will stutter onwards

 

[Mike.]

Henderson is being moved around way too much, Just play him in one position...

Carroll on the other hand id love to be wrong about, but ive never seen a footballer with worse technique, his first touch is awful and he cannot pass a ball... in the system liverpool play he is just not going to cut it

As long as Dalglish doesnt put full trust in him, Carroll wont succeed. Not say he would be a success otherwise, but even less so now.

Also Liverpool have a real issue to deal with re: Gerrard.

 

[*Jones*]

I think some Liverpool fans just don't want to admit how poor we've been. How anyone can say we deserve to be higher up in the league than 8th after being dreadful at home (winning 5 games all season) and having form since the start of the year which would see us in the relegation zone is beyond me.

Yes, I understand that we signed a lot of new players, and they need to gel; or we've hit the woodwork more than any other team this season, but at the moment it's just excuse after excuse for why we're failing to perform. On Sunday, not a single player looked like he cared, not even Gerrard. The only two who did were Flanagan and Shelvey, two of the younger players. Give them more game time, as well as Sterling and maybe even Suso for the remainder of the season, it's not like we've got anything to lose.

Oh, and don't say "but look how well we've done in the cups" - i'm sorry, but since when did we become a cup team? Whichever way you look at it, after spending £110 Million or whatever it was over the summer, this just hasn't been good enough. We're set to finish lower than we did last season and that was after the 'crisis' that was Roy Hodgson. Progress hasn't been made and people need to start answering for it. At least Henderson and maybe Downing look like they could be good players for us, but i'm afraid I don't hold much hope for Andy Carroll, especially if he's telling Dalglish to **** off because he was substituted (if rumours are to be believed).

 

[AM67]

replacement for gerrard, a top class winger/attacking mid and a poacher are all needed before liverpool will challenge for the league again

 

[GodCubed]

Carroll on the other hand id love to be wrong about, but ive never seen a footballer with worse technique, his first touch is awful and he cannot pass a ball... in the system liverpool play he is just not going to cut it

Sigh, don't be ridiculous.

I think some Liverpool fans just don't want to admit how poor we've been. How anyone can say we deserve to be higher up in the league than 8th after being dreadful at home (winning 5 games all season) and having form since the start of the year which would see us in the relegation zone is beyond me.

Yes, I understand that we signed a lot of new players, and they need to gel; or we've hit the woodwork more than any other team this season, but at the moment it's just excuse after excuse for why we're failing to perform. On Sunday, not a single player looked like he cared, not even Gerrard. The only two who did were Flanagan and Shelvey, two of the younger players. Give them more game time, as well as Sterling and maybe even Suso for the remainder of the season, it's not like we've got anything to lose.

Oh, and don't say "but look how well we've done in the cups" - i'm sorry, but since when did we become a cup team? Whichever way you look at it, after spending £110 Million or whatever it was over the summer, this just hasn't been good enough. We're set to finish lower than we did last season and that was after the 'crisis' that was Roy Hodgson. Progress hasn't been made and people need to start answering for it. At least Henderson and maybe Downing look like they could be good players for us, but i'm afraid I don't hold much hope for Andy Carroll, especially if he's telling Dalglish to **** off because he was substituted (if rumours are to be believed).

Exactly. One only needs to look at Newcastle and the success they've had regenerating from a worse team, spending far less money than Liverpool. Comparatively, the rebuilding at Anfield has been a bit of a failure.

 

[Mike.]

I think some Liverpool fans just don't want to admit how poor we've been. How anyone can say we deserve to be higher up in the league than 8th after being dreadful at home (winning 5 games all season) and having form since the start of the year which would see us in the relegation zone is beyond me.

Yes, I understand that we signed a lot of new players, and they need to gel; or we've hit the woodwork more than any other team this season, but at the moment it's just excuse after excuse for why we're failing to perform. On Sunday, not a single player looked like he cared, not even Gerrard. The only two who did were Flanagan and Shelvey, two of the younger players. Give them more game time, as well as Sterling and maybe even Suso for the remainder of the season, it's not like we've got anything to lose.

Oh, and don't say "but look how well we've done in the cups" - i'm sorry, but since when did we become a cup team? Whichever way you look at it, after spending £110 Million or whatever it was over the summer, this just hasn't been good enough. We're set to finish lower than we did last season and that was after the 'crisis' that was Roy Hodgson. Progress hasn't been made and people need to start answering for it. At least Henderson and maybe Downing look like they could be good players for us, but i'm afraid I don't hold much hope for Andy Carroll, especially if he's telling Dalglish to **** off because he was substituted (if rumours are to be believed).

I dont understand Dalglish taking him off vs Newcastle at that point in the game, too little time for the sub to do anything, and it made Carroll a massive target, which is pretty amazing considering how much booing he got during the game. Not that he helped himself at all mind.

 

[*Jones*]

You could look at Newcastle, but to me they're over-achieving and will be lucky if they do so well next season, but that's just my opinion.

It's obvious we need a clinical goal scorer, and if KK and DC don't see that, then I don't know what they're doing. We also need a tricky winger, another central midfielder and cover for Lucas but it's questionable as to whether the moneys there.

Personally, I'd give Jamie Carragher a coaching role next season, he's not good enough to play anymore and Coates needs game time.

This summer is massive for Liverpool. If they don't get it right, then we're ****** for years and I mean years. I think Carroll needs to go, he just doesn't suit us and we don't look like we're going to change for him any time soon.

 

[*Jones*]

I dont understand Dalglish taking him off vs Newcastle at that point in the game, too little time for the sub to do anything, and it made Carroll a massive target, which is pretty amazing considering how much booing he got during the game. Not that he helped himself at all mind.

This is something that infuriates me with Dalglish - how long it takes him to make a substitute. 2-0 down and bringing players on in the 75th minute isn't going to change the game, but he does it all the time, not just when we're losing.

That being said, Carroll's reaction was disgusting and how Dalglish can defend him after the game is beyond me.

 

[Joel`]

What....? This article isn't about our current form, it's about the season as a whole, that's quite obvious. We have played a lot better than most of our opponents this season, we just haven't been able to finish when required.. I think it is you that is watching a different Liverpool.

There are a lot of games that we could and should have won, such as the ones he listed, Norwich, Blackburn, Arsenal, and United, amongst others.. It's not an excuse, merely an observation, we are playing much better than we were under Hodgson, simple. Also, what makes you think he's trying to "gloss over" our failings by stating we've beaten some big clubs away from home?... :S

Again with the "relegation form" thing, the season as a whole has been positive.. Our recent form has been terrible, yes, but there is much more to our season than the past 5 or 6 games.. You don't judge Chelsea purely on their bad run of form they had a few months ago do you? No.

You really want to compare Chelsea's squad with Liverpool's? Chelsea, last seasons runners up with Liverpool, a club who have been struggling to even get in the top 6 for the past three years? LOL, okay then.

Anyway, regardless of our current form we are better than we were last year, we are moving in the right direction, unlike Chelsea... Just sayin'.

Past 5-6 games? You've won 2 from 12 IIRC. That's 1/3 of the season, which is significant enough that you can't just say 'There's more to our season'.

 

[LFCMarshall]

Sigh, don't be ridiculous.

I am not being ridiculous at all, watching him play is painful at the minute.. if you have been watching him you'll see how awful his general football skills are..

 

[LFCMarshall]

Can i just ask, whats this boardroom trouble and gerrard Problem you speak of, because it seems like flying rumours made up harm Liverpool further?

 

[Mike.]

Can i just ask, whats this boardroom trouble and gerrard Problem you speak of, because it seems like flying rumours made up harm Liverpool further?

Gerrard is pretty crocked, the issue is that Liverpool need to find a way to either incorporate him into the side, or start sliding him out.

As for the Boardroom, lot more than rumour there, Comolli and Daliglish dont get on (putting it mildly) and I'd put money on one or both of them leaving or moving somewhere else come the Summer. If only it was rumours, then it could just be dismissed.

 

[LFCMarshall]

Gerrard is pretty crocked, the issue is that Liverpool need to find a way to either incorporate him into the side, or start sliding him out.

As for the Boardroom, lot more than rumour there, Comolli and Daliglish dont get on (putting it mildly) and I'd put money on one or both of them leaving or moving somewhere else come the Summer. If only it was rumours, then it could just be dismissed.

I disagree with Gerrard being crocked, The midfield he is playing with is poor, no help what so ever.. and he has shown since coming back we still rely on him heavily.. We definitely need to keep him there

Ive not heard any of this boardroom, so for me its still pretty much rumour based.. although it wouldnt surprise me knowing two people have to agree on transfers, that is never going to happen... If one had to go, its the one who dealt with the majority of the mediocre signings.. And im guessing that was Comolli.

 

[Mike.]

I disagree with Gerrard being crocked, The midfield he is playing with is poor, no help what so ever.. and he has shown since coming back we still rely on him heavily.. We definitely need to keep him there

Ive not heard any of this boardroom, so for me its still pretty much rumour based.. although it wouldnt surprise me knowing two people have to agree on transfers, that is never going to happen... If one had to go, its the one who dealt with the majority of the mediocre signings.. And im guessing that was Comolli.

He is pretty immobile, and insists on those 40 yards passes. Definitely should not be playing CM. Which is a problem if liverpool want to play 4-3-3

 

[GodCubed]

I am not being ridiculous at all, watching him play is painful at the minute.. if you have been watching him you'll see how awful his general football skills are..

No, you are. Carroll does not have the worst technique of any footballer you've ever seen. Unless you've only ever watched the Liverpool front three play football, that is.

I disagree with Gerrard being crocked, The midfield he is playing with is poor, no help what so ever.. and he has shown since coming back we still rely on him heavily.. We definitely need to keep him there

I think that's what Mike. is getting at. The fact that you rely on him so heavily should be a warning. He's a 32 year old midfielder who has had injury problems recently. If you have to rely on him so heavily, then perhaps it's time to start phasing him out as a constant starter else something will go badly wrong.

 

[LFCMarshall]

He is pretty immobile, and insists on those 40 yards passes. Definitely should not be playing CM. Which is a problem if liverpool want to play 4-3-3

No, you are. Carroll does not have the worst technique of any footballer you've ever seen. Unless you've only ever watched the Liverpool front three play football, that is.



I think that's what Mike. is getting at. The fact that you rely on him so heavily should be a warning. He's a 32 year old midfielder who has had injury problems recently. If you have to rely on him so heavily, then perhaps it's time to start phasing him out as a constant starter else something will go badly wrong.

We deffinatley need another CM, but with lucas back, a new CM and gerrard i dont think there is any need to panic about his age,

you're taking the **** outta LFC and you support Villa.. Nice, And although i may have been over exagerrating, i stand by what i said, deffinatley in the prem he is one of the worst i have seen, his first touch is non existent, he cant pass, he is slow... You get a player like carroll and you have to play to his strengths because he cannot play any other way

The way LFC want to play does not suit his style, and its the reason he is not playing well

 

[*Jones*]

We deffinatley need another CM, but with lucas back, a new CM and gerrard i dont think there is any need to panic about his age,

you're taking the **** outta LFC and you support Villa.. Nice, And although i may have been over exagerrating, i stand by what i said, deffinatley in the prem he is one of the worst i have seen, his first touch is non existent, he cant pass, he is slow... You get a player like carroll and you have to play to his strengths because he cannot play any other way

The way LFC want to play does not suit his style, and its the reason he is not playing well

Sadly, I'm inclined to agree with Mike, he needs phasing out, or being used as an impact substitute much like he was when we beat Newcastle at Anfield. We can't play both Gerrard and Adam, we'd hardly ever have the ball thanks to their insistence on playing the hollywood ball every other pass, that with Adam's increasingly worrying amount of time he takes to shift the ball.

I'd actually like to see a midfield three of Lucas, Henderson and Shelvey with Suso being rotated as well, but I can't see it happening unfortunately.

I also agree with Marshall, Andy Carroll has to be one of the worst footballers I've seen. I've never seen anyone look so uncomfortable and awkward with a ball at his feet, it's like watching someone play football for the first time everytime he gets the ball. We're not playing to his strengths, and haven't once in a year, which leads me to question why he was signed in the first place (even as a panic buy) unless Kenny and the staff think they can change him, but I don't feel that they'll get the time, as I expect one of them to leave this summer, maybe even both & Comolli.

 

[Mike.]

We deffinatley need another CM, but with lucas back, a new CM and gerrard i dont think there is any need to panic about his age,

you're taking the **** outta LFC and you support Villa.. Nice, And although i may have been over exagerrating, i stand by what i said, deffinatley in the prem he is one of the worst i have seen, his first touch is non existent, he cant pass, he is slow... You get a player like carroll and you have to play to his strengths because he cannot play any other way

The way LFC want to play does not suit his style, and its the reason he is not playing well

Carroll certainly has technique, bit nonsensical to say otherwise when you are comparing him to the rest of the prem, there are definitely players with worse technique there (Henry, Hutton, Warnock just to name 3 in 2 seconds). His first goal for liverpool against City was all about technique. But he isnt quick, so relys on ball to head or feet in advanced positions, which you are particularly poor at. You are looking at a player who is struggling and lacking confidence. At his best he has a deft touch and good technique. First touch is usually the first thing to go without confidence, just look at Rooney/Torres for examples.

If you dont think there is any need to panic about Gerrards fitness, you're probably in for a nasty shock come next season, if you are expecting consistent barnstorming runs about the place.