The Liverpool Thread

[rephlex]

Got to agree with Mike. Every club gets its share of bad luck and decisions against it. Throwing the dummy out of the pram every time just makes him look ridiculous. Bitter, angry and generally unprofessional.

Maxi does look like a very capable player mind you, I don't think Liverpool are in too much of a bad state, and could pick up two cups this year still. It's been a season to "endure" for the fans, and has helped the banter with Evertonians.

 

[Jak]

Oh really, have the results improved since he has came back from injury this season? Nope they have not. They have got worse. I never expected Liverpool fans to agree to what I said, but saying he lifts the team when there is no reflection of this from the results is "rubbish" as you said about my opinion. Gerrard scores a good goal in about 10 games, that does not merit him a place at all.

Just some quick stats for you about "Gerrard" and his so called massive influence:

When Gerrard has not started this season, Liverpool have won 48% of games played; when he has started, that drops to 9%.

In the 11 games Gerrard has started, Liverpool have scored an average of 1.00 goal per game while conceding 1.36; without him it is goals for 1.24, goals against 0.90. They have taken 1.67 points per game without him, just 0.73 with. Project that over a season: without Gerrard, Liverpool would get 63 points, which last season would have seen them finish fifth; with Gerrard, they would get 28, certain relegation form.

All six of Charlie Adam's assists and both his goals have come when Gerrard has not started. Jordan Henderson's tackle success rate drops from 92.59% when Gerrard does not start to only 63.64% when he does. Jay Spearing wins 60.71% of duels when Gerrard does not start; only 54.76% when he does. When Gerrard is there, they have to adjust to different roles and, so far, that seems to have had a detrimental effect.

The balance of the side was much better without Gerrard in the side. The team gets shaken around because of him and it certainly has had an effect.

Another thing is remember when everyone thought Lampard and Gerrard was the perfect central midfield duo for England? It never worked because neither of them have good tactical awareness. Individually great players though and sometimes they can change a game (very rare now).

Very naive and close minded, you seem to believe only Gerrard has an influence on the team. Gerrard was injured for most of the first half of the season and form was better then due to Lucas being fit. Ever since he became injured, Liverpool haven't been as good. Think all Liverpool fans would argue he was there best player this season. This also ties in with the defence stats you posted, along with Agger (their best defender) being in and out of the team due to injury. The Suarez affair also contributes to the lack of goals scored by Liverpool during his ban. Charlie Adam started the season with decent form but has slowly gotten worse, how is that Gerrard's fault? Henderson has been played all over the place which kind of messes his stats up. Spearing's decrease isn't really that large, perhaps he's not ready to be playing regularly (again due to the Lucas injury). Really the biggest cause of Liverpool's poor form over the last few months is the injury to Lucas, ​not Gerrard messing the team up

 

[Alcaraz]

Oh really, have the results improved since he has came back from injury this season? Nope they have not. They have got worse. I never expected Liverpool fans to agree to what I said, but saying he lifts the team when there is no reflection of this from the results is "rubbish" as you said about my opinion. Gerrard scores a good goal in about 10 games, that does not merit him a place at all.

Just some quick stats for you about "Gerrard" and his so called massive influence:

When Gerrard has not started this season, Liverpool have won 48% of games played; when he has started, that drops to 9%.

In the 11 games Gerrard has started, Liverpool have scored an average of 1.00 goal per game while conceding 1.36; without him it is goals for 1.24, goals against 0.90. They have taken 1.67 points per game without him, just 0.73 with. Project that over a season: without Gerrard, Liverpool would get 63 points, which last season would have seen them finish fifth; with Gerrard, they would get 28, certain relegation form.

All six of Charlie Adam's assists and both his goals have come when Gerrard has not started. Jordan Henderson's tackle success rate drops from 92.59% when Gerrard does not start to only 63.64% when he does. Jay Spearing wins 60.71% of duels when Gerrard does not start; only 54.76% when he does. When Gerrard is there, they have to adjust to different roles and, so far, that seems to have had a detrimental effect.

The balance of the side was much better without Gerrard in the side. The team gets shaken around because of him and it certainly has had an effect.

Another thing is remember when everyone thought Lampard and Gerrard was the perfect central midfield duo for England? It never worked because neither of them have good tactical awareness. Individually great players though and sometimes they can change a game (very rare now).

Some nice Copy+Paste from Jonathan Wilson's article ... anyways JW also mentioned how Adams poor form, Lucas injury etc. also contributed massively to those stats which you failed to mention yourself. Agree with the extra points made by Jak as well

 

[Alcaraz]

One thing that Makes me laugh is people saying we spent the 2nd most since Dalglish has took over, but they forget we have sold the most by an absolute mile... We've only had a net spend of 36Million

When you have a radical turnover like this with key players going out and young unproven expensive players coming in surely it's not surprising where we are

Although I agree the signings were poor for the current season, I think they were brought to challenge in 2 or 3 seasons instead, we also have a very good youth academy

Your net spend is largely due to Torres 50m transfer fee as well.

To be fair, how many key players have actually gone out? And its not like you brought in young, unproven and expensive players in all your transfers.

The likes of Adam, Suarez, Downing and Enrique are by no means young, unproven or expensive.

The only two players who were really bought with the future in mind is probably Henderson and Caroll so their poor performances can still be partly justified or looked over. However Downing has been average, Adam has been **** and Suarez is largely the reason Liverpool cant seem to score these days.

Pool have a decent youth academy. Nowhere near the likes of Ajax though

 

[Brian]

Just some interesting insight regarding Brad Jones.

He had loan spells at several clubs; in the 2001–02 season he played two games for Irish club side Shelbourne, He made his début on 5 October against local rivals Bohemians at Dalymount Park and conceded 4 goals in a 6–4 victory one of which was direct from his own goal kick, his only other appearance for the club came one week later in a 3–1 home victory against Monaghan United.

There is a Shelbourne podcast that I listen to and they do a report of former Reds gone across to England and Scotland. Brad Jones report is usually taking the **** out of him with things such as "he shot 3 over in his round of golf and was said to be ecstatic as he never even featured in match-day squad. During last week's podcast after which Reina was sent off Shels fans had a great laugh at how he would be going to Wembley if just to sit on the bench. They also hoped that Doni would get sent off in last nights game so Jones would be Liverpool's Wembley keeper.

P.S. reports say he was very poor during the 2 games he played for Shels (slightly before my comprehensible time).

P.P.S. I love his own goal

tl;dr Shelbourne fans everywhere wanted Doni to be sent off last night so you can blame us for Shels

 

[zzeezzy]

Very naive and close minded, you seem to believe only Gerrard has an influence on the team. Gerrard was injured for most of the first half of the season and form was better then due to Lucas being fit. Ever since he became injured, Liverpool haven't been as good. Think all Liverpool fans would argue he was there best player this season. This also ties in with the defence stats you posted, along with Agger (their best defender) being in and out of the team due to injury. The Suarez affair also contributes to the lack of goals scored by Liverpool during his ban. Charlie Adam started the season with decent form but has slowly gotten worse, how is that Gerrard's fault? Henderson has been played all over the place which kind of messes his stats up. Spearing's decrease isn't really that large, perhaps he's not ready to be playing regularly (again due to the Lucas injury). Really the biggest cause of Liverpool's poor form over the last few months is the injury to Lucas, ​not Gerrard messing the team up

Gerrard definitely does effect the balance of the Liverpool team, Liverpool fans will never accept criticism about Gerrard but he does lack tactical discipline that is for sure. Lucas is obviously a big loss but not big enough to effect your recent form so much. The problem is also that the lack of a poacher upfront who can finish some of the many chances you usually create.

 

[Lee]

Gerrard definitely does effect the balance of the Liverpool team, Liverpool fans will never accept criticism about Gerrard but he does lack tactical discipline that is for sure. Lucas is obviously a big loss but not big enough to effect your recent form so much. The problem is also that the lack of a poacher upfront who can finish some of the many chances you usually create.

So it's all because of Gerrard and nothing to do with losing half of our back line?

 

[zzeezzy]

So it's all because of Gerrard and nothing to do with losing half of our back line?

I never said he was the only problem but maybe he is part of it? You do rely on him a **** of a lot and he is not the player he once was anymore, his effect on the game seems non existent a lot of the time now. I know you have other problems as well, the obvious ones (lack of poacher, Agger/Lucas missing).

 

[Irish Scouse]

When GJ and Lucas were out we did our worst.

Lucas is probably the main reason we are struggling so much.

Adam? Pass.
Spearing? Pass.
Henderson? Pass.

 

[*Jones*]

@Mike, I agree completely about KD, he's rude and it's not doing him any favours. Have a look here, decent article written by a Liverpool fan. about KD and interviews.

Also, I kind of agree that Gerrard disrupts the balance of the team. Yes, he's a great player to have, but we play to accommodate him and that doesn't do the other players any good. I'm not saying that those stats aren't affected by other things, because of course we've missed Lucas (more than some people think) and Agger being out hasn't helped either.

 

[GodCubed]

Spearing? Pass.

He wishes he could.

Also, I kind of agree that Gerrard disrupts the balance of the team. Yes, he's a great player to have, but we play to accommodate him and that doesn't do the other players any good. I'm not saying that those stats aren't affected by other things, because of course we've missed Lucas (more than some people think) and Agger being out hasn't helped either.

I still think that Gerrard should be used something like a 'strike player' if there is such a thing. He can't control the tempo of a game, and doesn't have the discipline to run a game like Scholes or Giggs does. What he does have is dynamism and brilliant attacking instinct still. As such, bringing him on as pretty much the ultimate game-changer is something that could be really useful for Liverpool. Whether he'd be willing to accept a role of being mostly on the bench ala Carragher remains to be seen.

 

[LFCMarshall]

Comilli sacked!

Hardly surprising, it was either him or Dalglish to be honest! Let's hope for a better summer of buying!

 

[LFCMarshall]

On Gerrard. I honestly think we and him have missed Lucas massively! he enables Gerrard to play a more attacking role! Alonso did it before Lucas and Gerrard/Torres combo was brilliant. Leta hope he can form something similar with Suarez next season

But he is deffinatley not finished yet

 

[zzeezzy]

Comilli sacked!

Hardly surprising, it was either him or Dalglish to be honest! Let's hope for a better summer of buying!

Exactly the right first move for this summer, the guy was an absolute joke with his whole "transfers" last summer.

 

[*Jones*]

Comilli sacked!

Hardly surprising, it was either him or Dalglish to be honest! Let's hope for a better summer of buying!

I wouldn't be so sure, considering Dalglish has apparently turned round and said that everyone we've signed since Comolli has been there, was his (Dalglish's) decision. Which, when you think about it could be true.

If anything, it just shows you how much power KD has, which is worrying considering everything - means he'll be under more pressure this summer to get his signings right because he won't have Comolli to blame if things go wrong.

 

[Irish Scouse]

I'm guessing it was DC's job to find and negotiate deals with players then KK was just there to give the 'go-ahead'. Wouldn't be much point employing him otherwise, as it's supposedly what he is good at.

 

[Aannddyy]

I wouldn't be so sure, considering Dalglish has apparently turned round and said that everyone we've signed since Comolli has been there, was his (Dalglish's) decision. Which, when you think about it could be true.

If anything, it just shows you how much power KD has, which is worrying considering everything - means he'll be under more pressure this summer to get his signings right because he won't have Comolli to blame if things go wrong.

Of course Dalglish had the final say, but it's not exactly like Comolli put a lot of options on his plate, and Comolli probably did all of the negotiating money wise.. Who's to say Dalglish knew we were paying £35m for Carroll? He was probably just asked do you want him and bam, £35,000,000 later he was here.

Tbf, Comolli has a massive ego, it's been obvious ever since he was sacked by Tottenham and I honestly think we're better of without him, don't even know why we need somebody in that role anyway..

 

[PZW]

@Mike, I agree completely about KD, he's rude and it's not doing him any favours. Have a look here, decent article written by a Liverpool fan. about KD and interviews.

Also, I kind of agree that Gerrard disrupts the balance of the team. Yes, he's a great player to have, but we play to accommodate him and that doesn't do the other players any good. I'm not saying that those stats aren't affected by other things, because of course we've missed Lucas (more than some people think) and Agger being out hasn't helped either.

Yeah, I agree with virtually everything you've said. I saw the YouTube video when King Kenny (yes, I'm still going to call him King Kenny) basically did everything wrong; wasn't respectful, answered questions badly and tried to walk out!

I love him as a man, but maybe he isn't good enough to be the manager of Liverpool. I will back him, but I think that a change of manager may be in order (although he should be a good assistant manager, because he is great with the players; and the new manager could deal with the transfers)!

Steven Gerrard is hard to fit into our team at the moment, and once Lucas gets back, there will be even less space to accommodate him, but he would be great as an impact player or playing just the big games. I'm not sure if he's good enough to start every game anymore, to be honest, and we don't need him as much as we did a few years ago.

Comilli sacked!

Hardly surprising, it was either him or Dalglish to be honest! Let's hope for a better summer of buying!

Apparently it's by 'mutual consent', but yeah, I think it's a sacking. I doubt he made all of the bad transfers, or even most of them, because King Kenny is the manager and probably makes most of the decisions. However, if he is used as a scapegoat, I'm not happy (if King Kenny deserves to be sacked, then he should be); but if he actually made most of the signings, fair enough.

- PZW

 

[LFCMarshall]

I wouldn't be so sure, considering Dalglish has apparently turned round and said that everyone we've signed since Comolli has been there, was his (Dalglish's) decision. Which, when you think about it could be true.

If anything, it just shows you how much power KD has, which is worrying considering everything - means he'll be under more pressure this summer to get his signings right because he won't have Comolli to blame if things go wrong.

With these owners i get the feeling if things got much worse, Kenny regardless of his stature would be gone..

Although he does deserve one more season, but it has to be considerably better than this one.

PS: Mutual consent usually means ' you either resign' which looks better on your CV and for you, else we'll sack you anyway.. Wasn't that what happened with Hodgeson, AVB ETC

 

[Irish Scouse]

Would just like to add, I don't know if I'd want KK as an assistant manager, maybe some form of role higher up in the club for prestige. Clarke is one of the best assistant managers in the English game - however he did say he wanted to work with KK which is why he turned down management for some more time as #2.

If he is willing to stay with the next manager, he should be, the comments from players and past players, staff and bosses, he seems to be both a top guy and a great coach/Assistant.