The Liverpool Thread

[redterror39]

Fair enough Walrus. I know I might seem a bit like an overreactive kind of guy but I do think we are in capable hands in Rodgers. It isn't his fault that he has inherited some completely inept players. Thank God he shipped out Charlie Adam, Carroll and Spearing.

 

[LFCMarshall]

I think you're blindly supporting your team, or maybe just trying to pass the blame. Wenger sells his top assests season after season but has consistently challenged for a top 4 spot. I think the realistic position of the club lies somewhere between redterror's opinions and your own. It's clear that a lot of work is needed, but I think strides have been made this season and Rodgers is the man to rebuild the club. There have been a lot of positives this season.

You cannot argue that off the field antics haven't destabalised the club though, and you can't keep passing the blame either.

Arsenal have brought better than us, but they still havent won anything in 7 years

both clubs have not been able to compete as high as they would like due to almost being selling clubs,

however arsenal are in a better position because they have brought better to replace outgoings

 

[fuelledbypassion]

Arsenal have brought better than us, but they still havent won anything in 7 years

both clubs have not been able to compete as high as they would like due to almost being selling clubs,

however arsenal are in a better position because they have brought better to replace outgoings

And they are a stable club, financially and in terms of continuity of management and playing philosophy.

 

[Quasit]

Arsenal have brought better than us, but they still havent won anything in 7 years

both clubs have not been able to compete as high as they would like due to almost being selling clubs,

however arsenal are in a better position because they have brought better to replace outgoings

I wouldn't say so. Santos vs Clichy. Giroud&Pod's vs RVP ... Most of the players we have brought in have been good, but cant say better than ones gone out. Still compared to Liverpool we have done really well.

 

[LFCMarshall]

I wouldn't say so. Santos vs Clichy. Giroud&Pod's vs RVP ... Most of the players we have brought in have been good, but cant say better than ones gone out. Still compared to Liverpool we have done really well.

you mis-understood, they brought better to replace than liverpool did..

both clubs havent replaced players leaving with better players bar the odd exception

 

[LFCMarshall]

And they are a stable club, financially and in terms of continuity of management and playing philosophy.

agreed, which has happened over continued years..

Liverpool are re building after being nearly bankrupt a few years back

 

[Mike.]

agreed, which has happened over continued years..

Liverpool are re building after being nearly bankrupt a few years back

But also spunked a huge amount of money they couldnt afford to waste on poor players. And it will put the club back about 4 years. Barring a miracle

 

[LFCMarshall]

But also spunked a huge amount of money they couldnt afford to waste on poor players. And it will put the club back about 4 years. Barring a miracle

have i not already said this?

 

[rephlex]

Well, yes and no. I think a lot of fans think FSG "need to spend" and certainly a few fans, perhaps yourself included in this thread pre-season stated they wern't going to get anywhere without new blood and they had to put money in (this was after they had just put more money in and bought new blood).

Some fans seem to consider FSG in the same league as Mansour & Abramovich, that is to say a front company buying the club to pile in more and more money instead of running it like a business. FSG immediately put the money behind their investment when they invested 2-4 seasons of transfer spending in the first year under KK, intended to be a statement of intent to stabalise the team for the next few years and achieve moderate success on the pitch - the problem, as we all know, was how it was spent and now the side is looking distinctly average with some ageing difficult to replace players (like Gerrard).

Perhaps it'd be easier if some fans wern't expecting to sign players such as Llorente in January though, assuming you wern't able to finance the Dempsey deal due to lack of funds, I think the constant "Hey lets bring this guy in on a free, only 100k wages + signing fee!" thing isn't exactly truthful. One of these players costs you 6-7m, so unless you call up Newcastle and ask to speak to Wonga to fill the gap, it's better to settle in for a rough few seasons and a slow rebuild while the young players improve.

 

[Aannddyy]

Spoiler

Well that's just not true. Last season's transfers certainly weren't funded by player sales, since you spent way more than you received. Liverpool have plenty of money as a club, but by using it retardedly they've made a complete hash of it.

Oh god don't perpetuate this myth. The likes of Papiss Cisse and Yohan Cabaye were well known quality players, the former having been scoring buckets in the Bundesliga and the latter being instrumental in Lille's run the to French title as well as a nailed-on French starter. Tiote was the only real 'unknown', and even he was had helped Twente to an Eredivisie title whilst playing in the Europa and Champions League.

That's fine to say, until you look at the startling regularity with which Liverpool's transfers have failed over the past three years, and expensively too. Cole, Carroll, Poulsen, Adam, Aquilani and Downing, all of them expensive through either wages or transfer fees (or both) and all of them failures to a man. The only transfers that have really been any good have been Suarez, Shelvey, Coates and Allen, and two of those were relatively low-risk, cheaper youngsters to build for the future with.

I don't blame FSG for not investing too much more money into transfers for Liverpool. Your scouting system is shocking, and the club is a money pit where transfers are concerned.

We've made a net spend of around £25m this summer and £30m last summer. If we pretend Downing doesn't exist (like most Liverpool fans do) our business in the past 2 years hasn't actually been that bad.. We've also drastically lowered the average age of the squad.

Also, every transfer represents a risk.. Hats off to Newcastle for taking that risk because it paid off, but they were by no means transfers that were dead certs for success, nor were they players that gathered a lot of media attention. I guess it's easy to look back on something and say how sure you were of it working!

Cole was pre-FSG, but he's probably cost us over £15m in wages alone. Gutted. Carroll was a strange transfer but IMO we basically traded Torres + Babel for Suarez + Carroll, not the worst deal ever, especially considering how gash Babel is. Poulsen (pre-FSG) but barely cost us more than £3m.. Adam was terrible but we got 75% of the transfer fee back. Aquilani (pre-FSG) & Downing I agree with, terrible, terrible signings.

Don't be mean to the scouting team, it's not their fault we've had managers with no knowledge of the outside world. However, Rodgers has made a solid start in terms of transfers, there are none that I would openly criticise.

Liverpool also had a chance to get Jelavic aswell. Many thanks for that lol

Oh come on. Every man and his dog was giving Jelavic abuse when he left.. I can't remember a single person who thought he wasn't going to fail, although I'm sure a few are coming out of the woodwork now! Having said that, Moyes is a master of the transfer market, he could of worked wonders here. :/

 

[Raikan007]

Agree Andy, look at United with Bebe, Veron, Forlan etc..

all players have a risk of not performing for their new team, look at Torres, prime example of it..

Liverpool will be back to their usual selves within the next two years, give Brendan time to implement his system and a few transfer windows and you should have a good team by this time next year.. I will bet on it!

 

[Alcaraz]

Well, yes and no. I think a lot of fans think FSG "need to spend" and certainly a few fans, perhaps yourself included in this thread pre-season stated they wern't going to get anywhere without new blood and they had to put money in (this was after they had just put more money in and bought new blood).

Some fans seem to consider FSG in the same league as Mansour & Abramovich, that is to say a front company buying the club to pile in more and more money instead of running it like a business. FSG immediately put the money behind their investment when they invested 2-4 seasons of transfer spending in the first year under KK, intended to be a statement of intent to stabalise the team for the next few years and achieve moderate success on the pitch - the problem, as we all know, was how it was spent and now the side is looking distinctly average with some ageing difficult to replace players (like Gerrard).

Perhaps it'd be easier if some fans wern't expecting to sign players such as Llorente in January though, assuming you wern't able to finance the Dempsey deal due to lack of funds, I think the constant "Hey lets bring this guy in on a free, only 100k wages + signing fee!" thing isn't exactly truthful. One of these players costs you 6-7m, so unless you call up Newcastle and ask to speak to Wonga to fill the gap, it's better to settle in for a rough few seasons and a slow rebuild while the young players improve.

Problem is worsened by the fact when you consider that even with a Ambramovich-like figure it would still be hard for them to rebuild.

Case in point would be Chelsea. Chelsea were definitely extremely luck in terms of winning the CL whose prize money they used to accelerate the rebuilding of our squad which would have otherwise taken a few seasons. I am 100% sure that had we not won the CL, we would definitely have not been able to spend as much as we did and bring in the type of players we did this summer. So it was really like we got a massive 'get out of jail for free' card last season.

That said I believe that Rodgers will be a success for Liverpool in the coming season. Young and hungry manager with some young talents such as Suso and Sterling coming through and hopefully he willl be able to complement his rising group of players with some astute buys

 

[zzeezzy]

Agree Andy, look at United with Bebe, Veron, Forlan etc..

all players have a risk of not performing for their new team, look at Torres, prime example of it..

Liverpool will be back to their usual selves within the next two years, give Brendan time to implement his system and a few transfer windows and you should have a good team by this time next year.. I will bet on it!

Not really Veron and Forlan were exceptionally good players when they joined United so it can't be the same as Liverpool splashing 30+ on Carroll and 15+ on Henderson, with that money you could of got so so so much better.

 

[Mike.]

We've made a net spend of around £25m this summer and the same amount last summer. If we pretend Downing doesn't exist (like most Liverpool fans do) our business in the past 2 years hasn't actually been that bad.. We've also drastically lowered the average age of the squad.

Also, every transfer represents a risk.. Hats off to Newcastle for taking that risk because it paid off, although I guess you can just carry on pretending you knew that those signings were guaranteed to not flop.

Cole was pre-FSG, but he's probably cost us over £15m in wages alone. Gutted. Carroll was a strange transfer but IMO we basically traded Torres + Babel for Suarez + Carroll, not the worst deal ever, especially considering how gash Babel is. Poulsen (pre-FSG) but barely cost us more than £3m.. Adam was terrible but we got 75% of the transfer fee back. Aquilani (pre-FSG) & Downing I agree with, terrible, terrible signings.

We have signed some flops, but we aren't the only ones.. Oh yeah, and we've been doing it for years. Don't be mean to the scouting team, it's not their fault we've had managers with no knowledge of the outside world. However, Rodgers has made a solid start in terms of transfers, there are none that I would openly criticise.




Oh come on. Every man and his dog was giving Jelavic abuse when he left.. I can't remember a single person who thought he wasn't going to fail, although I'm sure a few are coming out of the woodwork now! Having said that, Moyes is a master of the transfer market, he could of worked wonders here. :/

You can just pretend a £20m bad buy doesnt exist, you cant pick and choose what the facts represent

Carroll was a strange transfer but IMO we basically traded Torres + Babel for Suarez + Carroll, not the worst deal ever, especially considering how gash Babel is.

Not strange, just terrible. You made a massive fee on the Torres, which you needed to order to majorly change the side, and then totally wasted it. Money, given the state of the squad and limited finances, you simply couldnt afford to waste. That's not okay, that was poor business all round. Just because you made 50m on Torres, doesnt mean the 35m waste on Carroll gets negated. You certainly could do with 35m worth of players.

Every transfer presents a risk, as your considerable flops have shown, but Cayabe and Cisse were hardly gambles, unless you dont watch any Ligue 1/Bundesliga football, and thus have a limited knowledge of them. Cabaye was the supply behind Hazard and Gervinho, Lille's best player after Hazard. and Cisse already had a record as a fearsome finisher for Freiburg.

You can justifiably say its not been that bad, its been largely woeful. Liverpool needed to get that largely right first time, and they got it largely wrong.

As for Jelly, it was the vociferous celtic fans (all of whom are strangely silent) who were saying he was going to flop, plenty of people said otherwise.

 

[Raikan007]

Not really Veron and Forlan were exceptionally good players when they joined United so it can't be the same as Liverpool splashing 30+ on Carroll and 15+ on Henderson, with that money you could of got so so so much better.

yeah of course they are but were not for United at that time.. comparing Henderson to Veron is like comparing Buffon to me

I was just implying that all players regardless of how good they are pose the risk of not being a "good" signing

 

[Tyton]

Caroll wasn't simply a flop. Flop is Barca buying Ibrahimovic. They blew 30 milion or w/e, he didn't really fit in, no big deal, they could resell him again without much net loss. But Caroll is worth what, 10-15 miliion now? It's not a flop , its a disaster.

Torres, in comparision, is not such a bad deal. Sure, he doesn't play up to 50 milion price tag (which was way overpriced even when he was playing at his best). But as a WC and 2x Euro winner he is VERY high-profile, so there's at least a lot of marketing value to be had, even if he plays like ***. Caroll? For casual fans its the nameless guy from funny gifs.

 

[LFCMarshall]

Gets to the point where its quite amusing... playing very well. Concede

Fair play to Cabaye though, top strike.

 

[Kytz]

We're playing really good, even though we don't win as often as I'd like; I still love watching Rodgers philosophy.

 

[LFCMarshall]

We're playing really good, even though we don't win as often as I'd like; I still love watching Rodgers philosophy.

Its great to watch yes, but we have still only won 2 out of 10 if it stays like this... really worrying

 

[TJD07]

We play well up until the final third, which is the problem. We're great at passing the ball but no one roams forward to support Suarez, Johnson and Enrique end up further up the pitch than anyone else when they're playing.