The Manchester United Thread

[Chelski Shogun]

That was not even first 11, that looks like team for some league cup game. Even if that's the team then Wenger should be blamed for it. He is in charge of Arsenal for nearly 20 years, whose mistake is it if team looked ****.

Also Arsenal always had talented players, like RVP, Fabregas, Arshavin, Nasri, Walcott, Wilshere, Ramsey, Kos, Gibbs, Sagna, Mertasacker, Vermaelen. Don't make it sound as if Arsenal had only **** players. Those players left when they knew Arsenal was going nowhere.

Precisely. Anyway after a little digging I found that was the team to play Leeds in an FA Cup Third-Round tie (Wenger made nine changes from the previous fixture), it finished 1-1 and went to a replay that of which Arsenal won 1-3. But like you said that 2010/2011 squad still had Clichy, Gibbs, Koscielny, Sagna, Vermaelen, Arshavin, Fabregas, Nasri, Ramsey, Rosicky, Song, Wilshere, RVP and Walcott. Also Arsenal finished 4th with 68pts and +29 GD, City finished 3rd with 71pts and +27 GD, Chelsea finished 2nd with 71pts and +36 GD, so it wasn't like they were miles behind.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

AS: Manchester United are asking for €46m for De Gea. Real Madrid are also trying to factor Sergio Ramos in the deal.

Proper source for the above quote

AS English
✔ @English_AS Van Gaal on De Gea “I don’t want to discuss it through the media" http://as.com/diarioas/2015/06/28/english/1435502594_605564.html … via @diarioas

 

[zzeezzy]

Apparently the reason we are playing such hardball with Madrid over De Gea because they done the exact same to us with Di Maria. Personally I'm loving it, hope it continues.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

Apparently the reason we are playing such hardball with Madrid over De Gea because they done the exact same to us with Di Maria. Personally I'm loving it, hope it continues.

Me to. Can see a straight swap deal in the end. Oh and Craig Norwood and Schniederlin have started following each other on Twitter.

 

[zzeezzy]

Me to. Can see a straight swap deal in the end. Oh and Craig Norwood and Schniederlin have started following each other on Twitter.

I always thought Schneiderlin was too logical of a move to ever happen for us, if this is how we're going to kick off the transfer window (ok Depay as well) then I'm very happy. He's exactly what we need, will be great to eventually replace Carrick as well!

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

I always thought Schneiderlin was too logical of a move to ever happen for us, if this is how we're going to kick off the transfer window (ok Depay as well) then I'm very happy. He's exactly what we need, will be great to eventually replace Carrick as well!

Could just be coincidence, but I doubt it tbh after all the latest comings outs. Also exactly the same happened days before both RVP and Mata signed. Will be a quality signing if true

 

[sunilvk7]

Me to. Can see a straight swap deal in the end. Oh and Craig Norwood and Schniederlin have started following each other on Twitter.

Schneiderlin is not following Craig Norwood and also Craig Norwood is not a ManUtd employee. He is just a fan who takes photographs.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

Schneiderlin is not following Craig Norwood and also Craig Norwood is not a ManUtd employee. He is just a fan who takes photographs.

Im sure I read somewhere, that was one following the other. Im not on Twitter so would not know tbh. Also read that he still does some work for them on a Forum a few weeks back.

 

[damola3]

He did excellent job wrt to Stadium but not miracle. He won **** all, Arsenal had 4th highest wage bill in the league and finished exactly there for 10 years.

Arsenal transfer spend:
2005-06: 46 Million, signed Hleb, Walcott, Adebayor, Song, Vela, Diaby.
2006-07: 15 Million: Rosicky, Denilson, Baptista, Gallas,
2007-08: 31 Million: Eduardo, Sagna, Fabianski, Lass Diarra,
2008-09: 40 Million: Arshavin, Nasri, Ramsey, Silvestre,
2009-10: 12 Million: Vermaelen,
2010-11: 23 Million: Kos, Squillici, Chamakh, Ryo,
2011-12: 65 Million: Ox, Arteta, Gervinho, Mertasacker, Andre Santos, Park, Jenkison, Campbell.
2012-13: 53 Million: Carzola, Giroud, Podolski, Monreal,
2013-14: 52 Million: Ozil, Viviano, Kallstrom,
2014-15: 120 Million: Sanchez, Chambers, Welbeck, Debuchy, Paulista, Ospina,

So there was consistent transfer spend which was more than most teams in the league except 2-3 and Arsenal average finish is exactly that. I don't look at Net spend as just because some team is stupid enough to pay for useless player doesn't mean Arsenal didn't spend enough. They did, more than most and wage bill was top 4 all the years.

Also Wenger had more time to shape the squad as he wanted to with clever investments which was not the case for other managers.

For 10 years Arsenal won next to nothing, not sure how that is miraculous work.

What you seem to forget is that these players need replacing. There's a difference between selling a world class player and bringing in a few average players and actually adding to your squad. For example, Nasri was replaced by Gervinho, Fabregas was replaced by Arteta and Van Persie was replaced by Giroud. You act like these additions were added to the squad. Player sales far outnumber purchases. You said that Arsene had time for clever investments when we didn't have the money for it and Arsene had probably made the most in world football. Fabregas, Nasri, Van Persie, Adebayor, Toure, Sagna, Song, Ramsey, Walcott, Hleb etc were signed for peanuts in that period and many for sold for huge net profits on transfer fees. I didn't realise that the lineup in that game was a league cup, however during that season. That 2010-11 squad were 5 points clear at the top well after Chrstmas, until the Eduardo injury derailed our season and we didn't have a good enough defence, however we made the UCL semis. Remember that English teams were much better in those days. There was United, Arsenal and Chelsea in the semis.

 

[Chelski Shogun]

What you seem to forget is that these players need replacing. There's a difference between selling a world class player and bringing in a few average players and actually adding to your squad. For example, Nasri was replaced by Gervinho, Fabregas was replaced by Arteta and Van Persie was replaced by Giroud. You act like these additions were added to the squad. Player sales far outnumber purchases. You said that Arsene had time for clever investments when we didn't have the money for it and Arsene had probably made the most in world football. Fabregas, Nasri, Van Persie, Adebayor, Toure, Sagna, Song, Ramsey, Walcott, Hleb etc were signed for peanuts in that period and many for sold for huge net profits on transfer fees. I didn't realise that the lineup in that game was a league cup, however during that season. That 2010-11 squad were 5 points clear at the top well after Chrstmas, until the Eduardo injury derailed our season and we didn't have a good enough defence, however we made the UCL semis. Remember that English teams were much better in those days. There was United, Arsenal and Chelsea in the semis.

Yes, Arsenal have sold most of their world class players in the past and brought in average players to replace them. However I would say you've underachieved with some of the squads Arsenal have had over the past ten years or so. Having said that it is difficult when you're competing against some of the starting teams Chelsea and United have had, but still I think Arsenal could've done more and as legendary as Wenger is, I feel if Fergie or Mourinho were in charge of Arsenal for the time Wenger has been your trophy cabinet would definitely be a bit more crowded. Still I do respect what Arsenal have done, not necessarily trophy wise but from a business point of view you've been excellent.

Regarding the transfers though, Arsenal have actually spent the least amount on them out of Chelsea, Liverpool, City and United over the past ten years or so. Just to put it all into perspective according to transferleague since the 2003/04 season Arsenal have spent £390,675,000m on players and have brought in £307,970,000m from players sales, which equates to a total spend of £82,705,000m. When you compare those sums with the teams I've mentioned above it's quite impressive.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

Think the Academy and Reserves report back tomorrow. Should find out which ones going on tour soon hopefully.

 

[sunilvk7]

What you seem to forget is that these players need replacing. There's a difference between selling a world class player and bringing in a few average players and actually adding to your squad. For example, Nasri was replaced by Gervinho, Fabregas was replaced by Arteta and Van Persie was replaced by Giroud. You act like these additions were added to the squad. Player sales far outnumber purchases. You said that Arsene had time for clever investments when we didn't have the money for it and Arsene had probably made the most in world football. Fabregas, Nasri, Van Persie, Adebayor, Toure, Sagna, Song, Ramsey, Walcott, Hleb etc were signed for peanuts in that period and many for sold for huge net profits on transfer fees. I didn't realise that the lineup in that game was a league cup, however during that season. That 2010-11 squad were 5 points clear at the top well after Chrstmas, until the Eduardo injury derailed our season and we didn't have a good enough defence, however we made the UCL semis. Remember that English teams were much better in those days. There was United, Arsenal and Chelsea in the semis.

How many world class players did Arsenal lose?

Henry was past his peak and barely the player he was.
RVP was world class and big loss.
Fabregas was world class.
Nasri had good 6 months in his Arsenal career.
Adebayor was far from World class. He wasn't even league class if there is anything like that.
Kolo Toure wasn't.
Cole was but you got Gallas in a swap deal who was fantastic CB for Chelsea and that was 10 years ago. Very very long time in football.


Who else? Every team loses players, and Arsenal didn't sign just average players, they signed good players.

Also Arsenal had 4th highest wage bill and I don't know why people always ignore that.

 

[Tyton]

We're having this debate again, really? Over last 10 years Arsenal's net spend is about 1/5 of City/Chelsea/United. And that's all that needs to be said in the matter.

Somehow "no trophies Wegner" started to secure major trophies, the moment he was free to start spending big. Funny how that works, eh?

They have excellent squad that's played together for a few years now, if they can lock down Cech and add 1-2 good players, I can see them being major title contender this year. They certainly look more serious than United, which still needs some major moves to even have a balanced squad, let alone a well-oiled machine. Just look at the transfer targets for gods sake. Ramos, Schweiny, both key players in WC and CL winning teams. This is the kind of quality you need to take it to the next level.

 

[sunilvk7]

We're having this debate again, really? Over last 10 years Arsenal's net spend is about 1/5 of City/Chelsea/United. And that's all that needs to be said in the matter.

[And that's why Arsenal finished 4th behind top 3 all these years. Not a miracle, just what is expected with 4th highest wage bill.
Again I don't buy all these net spend argument. Money spent is money spent. Spurs spending 120 Million on dross is not an excuse just because Madrid were idiots enough to buy Bale for huge money.

Somehow "no trophies Wegner" started to secure major trophies, the moment he was free to start spending big. Funny how that works, eh?

Birmingham and Wigan won cup each in last 5 years. Funny how Arsenal couldn't win even with transfer spend that exceeds Wigan by long long way.

They have excellent squad that's played together for a few years now, if they can lock down Cech and add 1-2 good players, I can see them being major title contender this year. They certainly look more serious than United, which still needs some major moves to even have a balanced squad, let alone a well-oiled machine. Just look at the transfer targets for gods sake. Ramos, Schweiny, both key players in WC and CL winning teams. This is the kind of quality you need to take it to the next level.

ManUtd with new manager and new system with depleted squad because of injuries finished just 5 points behind Arsenal and that too because of their worst run in the last few games. Hardly class above.

ManUtd are linked with Ramos, Schweinsteiger and Arsenal are linked with Vidal. Hardly big difference.

Anyways we hear this **** about Arsenal every season and how serious they will be next season and it always end up with same result.

 

[damola3]

We're having this debate again, really? Over last 10 years Arsenal's net spend is about 1/5 of City/Chelsea/United. And that's all that needs to be said in the matter.

Somehow "no trophies Wegner" started to secure major trophies, the moment he was free to start spending big. Funny how that works, eh?

They have excellent squad that's played together for a few years now, if they can lock down Cech and add 1-2 good players, I can see them being major title contender this year. They certainly look more serious than United, which still needs some major moves to even have a balanced squad, let alone a well-oiled machine. Just look at the transfer targets for gods sake. Ramos, Schweiny, both key players in WC and CL winning teams. This is the kind of quality you need to take it to the next level.

Think the Academy and Reserves report back tomorrow. Should find out which ones going on tour soon hopefully.

How many world class players did Arsenal lose?

Henry was past his peak and barely the player he was.
RVP was world class and big loss.
Fabregas was world class.
Nasri had good 6 months in his Arsenal career.
Adebayor was far from World class. He wasn't even league class if there is anything like that.
Kolo Toure wasn't.
Cole was but you got Gallas in a swap deal who was fantastic CB for Chelsea and that was 10 years ago. Very very long time in football.


Who else? Every team loses players, and Arsenal didn't sign just average players, they signed good players.

Also Arsenal had 4th highest wage bill and I don't know why people always ignore that.

Henry scored 27 in 32 premier league games and 5 in 11 champions league games in his final Arsenal season, firing us the the champions league final, taking home a record £200k a week. He was then an integral part of the Barcelona team until 2009, helping them win virtually every trophy under the sun.

Samir Nasri was one of the league's most consistent attacking mifielder for the past 3 seasons before his move and integral to our squad. In his first season with us, we made the champions league semis. He was a key part of the famous team that beat the best barca side of all time and to top it all off, consistent destroyed Man United. He was seen as the long term successor to Cesc Fabregas.

Adebayor was seen as one of the top 5 strikers in the world in his prime and overshadowed Van Persie. Have you been under a rock? I fondly remember his scoring 37 goals in a season and carrying arsrnal through the champions league. Remember his acrobatics against Vilarreal?

Kolo Toure was part of arguably the best premier league defense of all time.

Our net spend from when we moved to the emirates and when we started spending in 2012-13 was −£48,825,000 based on figures from transfer league.

Other teams such as the one from 2008-9 we're talented enough to win the champions league, however we'd always lacked a few top class defenders and a keeper. Eventually that team fell apart and was sold. We gave 2 world class strikers in Van Persie and Adebayor, plus the lethal Eduardo up top. We had one of the best midfield lineups in Europe,if not the best. Fabregas, Nasri, Arshavin, Song, Wilshere etc. Clichy was a weak link at left back and you can't win major trophies with Almunia. Unfortunately if we'd have had a bit more money back then, we'd have won the champions league by now. In the next 2 seasons, we couldn't afford to keep the team and it completely crumbled.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

SkyBet has suspended betting on Schneiderlin to Utd FWIW.

 

[DMF]

SkyBet has suspended betting on Schneiderlin to Utd FWIW.

They did the same RE Vidal to United last summer. Means nothing IMO - deal will be done but that means nada.

 

[damola3]

They did the same RE Vidal to United last summer. Means nothing IMO - deal will be done but that means nada.

Toni Krooos to United, Higuain to Arsenal etc. So far all of these reports have come from Twitter or tabloids. All we know so far is that United are interested, based on what we have so far, there seems to be no bid or contract offer yet. I can't see us leaving United unchallenged for Schneiderlin. Arsene Wenger has been tracking him for a decade and rates him very highly.

 

[zzeezzy]

We're having this debate again, really? Over last 10 years Arsenal's net spend is about 1/5 of City/Chelsea/United. And that's all that needs to be said in the matter.

Somehow "no trophies Wegner" started to secure major trophies, the moment he was free to start spending big. Funny how that works, eh?

They have excellent squad that's played together for a few years now, if they can lock down Cech and add 1-2 good players, I can see them being major title contender this year. They certainly look more serious than United, which still needs some major moves to even have a balanced squad, let alone a well-oiled machine. Just look at the transfer targets for gods sake. Ramos, Schweiny, both key players in WC and CL winning teams. This is the kind of quality you need to take it to the next level.

Wouldn't say that, despite their supposed financial muscle they now have , it didn't stop them waiting till the last day of the window last season to find a striker they desperately needed in Welbeck. They then expected Welbeck and Giroud to be good enough to challenge on all fronts? They still have the same problems in my opinion as always, either Wenger's stubbornness or the board being too greedy. It will be backed up if Schneiderlin signs for United instead of Arsenal, we will soon see. Plus let's see how they address this window in general, that will really tell if anything has changed about their approach. Don't even say Cech, good signing but he's gifted on a plate from Chelsea in exceptional circumstances.

2 FA Cups is nothing to shout about when you're no nearer to winning in the major competitions, for a club in your own words who 'look more serious'.

 

[sunilvk7]

Henry scored 27 in 32 premier league games and 5 in 11 champions league games in his final Arsenal season, firing us the the champions league final, taking home a record £200k a week. He was then an integral part of the Barcelona team until 2009, helping them win virtually every trophy under the sun.

Henry scored 12 goals in 27 games in his last season. He was injured all the time. Also for Barca team he was nowhere near the key player. Barca won because of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Eto'o. Apart from them Dani Alves, Pique, Abidal, Biscuits, Yaya were all immense.

Samir Nasri was one of the league's most consistent attacking mifielder for the past 3 seasons before his move and integral to our squad. In his first season with us, we made the champions league semis. He was a key part of the famous team that beat the best barca side of all time and to top it all off, consistent destroyed Man United. He was seen as the long term successor to Cesc Fabregas.

Nasri was very inconsistent and he was superb for half a season (first half of season) before moving to City. Consistent destroyed ManUtd? He has one brilliant game against United against ageing Neville and that's it. Arsenal never even came close to winning against ManUtd in his time at Arsenal. 1 good game doesn't make him consistent attacking midfielder.

Adebayor was seen as one of the top 5 strikers in the world in his prime and overshadowed Van Persie. Have you been under a rock? I fondly remember his scoring 37 goals in a season and carrying arsrnal through the champions league. Remember his acrobatics against Vilarreal?

In which world? Gooners world? When did he score 37 goals? Are you including his goals from pre season and emirates cup? When Ade left Arsenal there was already steady decline in his performance. City were stupid to buy him for that price.

Kolo Toure was part of arguably the best premier league defense of all time.

There is no arguably. He wasn't. Kolo Toure was part of best defense in 1 season and that was when Arsenal conceded 26 goals. That record was broken numerous times by ManUtd, Liverpool, Chelsea.

Our net spend from when we moved to the emirates and when we started spending in 2012-13 was −£48,825,000 based on figures from transfer league.

That's to ManCity and other teams who were stupid enough to buy for inflated price and washed up players.

Other teams such as the one from 2008-9 we're talented enough to win the champions league, however we'd always lacked a few top class defenders and a keeper. Eventually that team fell apart and was sold. We gave 2 world class strikers in Van Persie and Adebayor, plus the lethal Eduardo up top. We had one of the best midfield lineups in Europe,if not the best. Fabregas, Nasri, Arshavin, Song, Wilshere etc. Clichy was a weak link at left back and you can't win major trophies with Almunia. Unfortunately if we'd have had a bit more money back then, we'd have won the champions league by now. In the next 2 seasons, we couldn't afford to keep the team and it completely crumbled.

This is stupidly overrating the team for the sake of it. Never mind Europe, Arsenal players weren't even the best in the league. As a squad they were 3rd or 4th best and that's where they ended up every season.

You arguments about Ade, Henry are not correct. You just boosted their numbers for no reason other than to support your argument and overrating of Nasri, Ade and other players is just hilarious.

Also going by your posts, then Wenger underachieved a lot considering you guys had all the best in the league and one of the best in Europe. Defense, GK failing shouldn't be an excuse, Wenger had more than a decade to shape up the squad as exactly as he wanted.