The Manchester United Thread

[sunilvk7]

A quick Google search told me that Adebayor scored 34 goals in 50 games during 2007-8 to settle this. The 37 figure as I said, was off the top of my head and I wasn't very far off.

He scored 30 goals in 48 games, next season he scored 16 goals. City were mad to pay 25 Million pounds, Arsenal could have signed big striker with that money and also Ade was far from big loss. If club can't even handle losing players like Ade then imaging losing players like Tevez, Hargreaves, Ronaldo.

Thierry Henry averaged a goal every 2 champions league games for Barca. I purposely said that before 2009, he was an integral part of Barcelona, scoring 13 goals in 25 odd champions league games. In 2008-9 he scored 19 la liga goals in 25 games. If that wasn't a key player, then I don't know what is.

Still he scored lot less than Eto'o and Messi. Like I said he wasn't even top 5 player for them.

That Arsenal defence of Lauren, Toure, Campbell and Cole went 10 games without conceding in the Champions league from the third group game to the final without conceding. In that period, we played Juventus, Real Madrid and Vilarreal over 6 games in the group stage without conceding.

And conceded 31 goals in the league. So far from best ever PL defense. In that defense Eboue and senderos also played. He was hardly the player he was. Also he was replaced by Vermaelen.

Nasri was talked about as a successor to Fabregas before moving to City. He was an easily established world class attacking midfielder that had proved it on the big stage. I never claimed that we were the best in the league at that time. I claimed that we were aguably the best going forward. If you look at the top scorers each year in that period, me pretty much scored a load of goals, but conceded stupid amounts. There way one year where we hit 50 league goals before Christmas. Like I said, a defense and keeper was always lacking in that period, keeping us 4th best. We also had poor squad depth.

You are just overrating Nasri.

Like I said, how logical is it to expect Arsene Wenger to shape up his squad , when he had to spend -£50 million net over 6 years?

Let me see, you said Arsenal had top 5 CF in the world in Ade, RVP, one of the best defense, Nasri, Fabregas. They why didn't they win anything?

 

[sunilvk7]

Let's think of an equivalent United scenario. If United sold De Gea for £30 million and only signed Fabian Delph for £8 million, would you consider 4th a huge failure next season? In my opinion it isn't, because Delph isn't good enough to win you a title and you've sold a world class keeper in De Gea. Would you call that shaping the United squad to Van Gaal's liking? There was also no Depay signing due to the financial situation. Di Maria, Falcao, Blind, Herrera, Shaw and Rojo never joined due to price and Mata was sold because he didn't feel the team was going to spend the required money to progress. That United team would barely make the top 6, let alone the league.

Equivalent? Lets see, Instead of moaning about transfers and players leaving, how about winning like ManUtd?

Losing Hughes, Ince, Kanchelskis, Bruce who were key palyers for ManUtd and promoting bunch of youngsters like Beckham, Scholes, ****, Neville bros and winning the leauge and FA cup in the same season?

Losing players like Cantona, Pallister and winning treble.

Losing Stam, Andy Cole, Irwin and Yorke but still winning league?

Losing Beckham, Veron, Barthez, Forlan (veron and Forlan flopped but massive players before or after), Nistelrooy, Roy keane and after that winning 3 league titles on a row and winning CL.

Then losing players like Solskjaer, Smith for injuries and players like Rossi and Pique but that didn't stop ManUtd.

Then losing once in a generation player like Ronaldo, lethal striker like Tevez, injury prone Hargo but still fought for league title till the last day and eventually winning it in 2 seasons.

Losing one of the best GK like VDS and signing a rookie and still losing league title on last day, last second and again winning it next season.

Winners don't make excuses. Wenger was in charge for so long and yet he can't handle losing 1 player at a time.

Lets see what other clubs have done.
Atletico Madrid:
2011-12: Lost Aguero, De Gea, Forlan, Reyes, Diego Costa loaned out, Ujfalusi. They went on to win Europa league in the same season.

2013-14: Lost Falcao but won league and made finals of CL. Also they won Spanish cup in between.

Dortmund:
They lost key players but still won league title twice.

Point is almost all teams lose key players and other players but they adapt and win. Wenger was in charge of Arsenal for 2 decades but still couldn't handle losing players like Adebayor, Kolo Toure, Nasri. RVP and Fabregas are understandable as they were excellent players.

Stop making excuses for decade of failures.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

Mike Keegan
✔ @MikeKeegan_DM Led to believe adidas are planning a retro-inspired United fashion range. Should be released later this year (after kit launch). #mufc

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

It kind of is Arsene Wenger's job to be financially responsible. ....

No, it's his job to identify the players, and whomever the financial guy is to say if Arsenal can or can't afford said player.

And this is all spurious when you still spent but chose to spend on prospects rather than experience.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

Jeremy Wilson
✔ @JWTelegraph Arsenal no longer in for Vidal and MU favs for Schneiderlin deal close. AFC wanted him in Jan but fee, plus Coq/Caz form, seems to have changed things.

 

[MANUMAD]

Interesting reading Arsenal fans so vehemently defending the failings of Wenger over the last decade. A large majority of which has been brought on by his refusal to pay more for the experienced players so desperately needed at the expense of finding the next great youngster. His approach is admirable but not what he's paid to do. He's paid to put the best team on the field and build with the best at a club like Arsenal. Not balance the books and hope that youth finally comes to fruition.

But then after all Arsene has done for that football club I guess it's only right he's getting that good will.

Just pretty sure after a mere 2 FA Cups in a decade, and nowhere close to the league; my patience would of past worn thin with just settling for the top 4 only to crash out the first knock-out stage and first half decent side they come up against in Europe most every year.

Mate, for a scouser you talk a LOT of sense!

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Mate, for a scouser you talk a LOT of sense!

That just literally had me LOL.

Thank you.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

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[damola3]

One difference is that these clubs were able to replace players that had left. Manchester United were able to buy Verdon and Ferdinand in 2001-2002 for fees such as £30 million. Atletico Madrid's situation is completely different. They replaced Torres with Aguero who cost €23 million, then Aguero was replaced by Falcao who costed 40 odd million quid etc. You cut just assume that we have a class of 92 lying around and football has come a long way since then. Dortmund are another club with a higher spend. I'm afraid that there's a difference between a our situation and replacing Aguero with Falcao.

 

[epic terrorist]

One difference is that these clubs were able to replace players that had left. Manchester United were able to buy Verdon and Ferdinand in 2001-2002 for fees such as £30 million. Atletico Madrid's situation is completely different. They replaced Torres with Aguero who cost €23 million, then Aguero was replaced by Falcao who costed 40 odd million quid etc. You cut just assume that we have a class of 92 lying around and football has come a long way since then. Dortmund are another club with a higher spend. I'm afraid that there's a difference between a our situation and replacing Aguero with Falcao.

Not really, you could have replaced those players with proven talent rather than prospects just like what atleti did.

 

[Quasit]

Not really, you could have replaced those players with proven talent rather than prospects just like what atleti did.

Wenger didn't have money to spend. He sold player for 30mil and had 15mil to spend on replacement. Atleti would have had hard time signing Falcao had they had similar restrictions. Gazidis has confirmed this many times now that the "shackles" are off. Difference between Atleti now and us is that we are financially on different planet while they have ton of debt.

 

[damola3]

No, it's his job to identify the players, and whomever the financial guy is to say if Arsenal can or can't afford said player.

And this is all spurious when you still spent but chose to spend on prospects rather than experience.

The Arsenal boardroom situation was unstable when we took out £500 million worth of loans. Arsenal's revenue was dangerously relied on player sales. Unfortunately, if those player sales weren't made, we'd just be like Liverpool atm. David Dein, who was the vice-chairman had the final say until he left in 2006, sold all of his shares and before Stan Kronke, the boardroom situation was unstable. To keep this simplified, it was more than just a 'financial guy' at that moment in time. Long term commercial deals were signed, which quickly became out of date and left us behind the competition. This meant that repaying debt had a direct effect on net transfer expenditure. If you look at Arsenal's public accounts over the past decade, if Arsenal failed to make the champions league or making a net profit in the transfer market, the long term future of the club could have been jepeordised. Do any of you know how risky it is running a football club on net transfer expenditure? Arsene Wenger has a masters degree in Economics of you didn't know and he's perfectly qualified to balance the books. I don't know whether Arsene Wenger put it upon himself to do or not, however I do know that the club would be in Liverpool's situation without him.

 

[damola3]

Wenger didn't have money to spend. He sold player for 30mil and had 15mil to spend on replacement. Atleti would have had hard time signing Falcao had they had similar restrictions. Gazidis has confirmed this many times now that the "shackles" are off. Difference between Atleti now and us is that we are financially on different planet while they have ton of debt.

Atletico spent 50 million euros of Falcao to replace Aguero. Arsenal replaced Cesc Fabregas with £11 million Arteta, Van Persie with £11 million Giroud and Nasri with £10.5 million Gervinho.

 

[zzeezzy]

As fun as this is, can't help but feel this topic should now be moved to Arsenal thread...............................

 

[Puddz]

All this talk about Arsenal making me cry. Can't you Arsenal fans just be happy you've finally finished above United the past two seasons? Hasn't happened in a while and will probably not happen again for a long period XD

 

[zzeezzy]

On to a United subject in the United thread, with us and reportedly Chelsea in for Arda Turan, would you guys like him at United? Versatile player, good at a lot of things, could fill a CM role possibly, as well as other positions like further out wide and can make things happen with his creativity/passing ability. I think we really lack a player like him, would definitely have him.

 

[damola3]

As fun as this is, can't help but feel this topic should now be moved to Arsenal thread...............................

Haha I don't even know how this happened.

 

[damola3]

All this talk about Arsenal making me cry. Can't you Arsenal fans just be happy you've finally finished above United the past two seasons? Hasn't happened in a while and will probably not happen again for a long period XD

2 seasons in a row and counting. We're better and more stable at the moment, we only need 1-2 top additions with Cech, while United need a lot more.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

Onto a United subject in the United thread, with us and reportedly Chelsea in for Arda Turan, would you guys like him at United? Versatile player, good at a lot of things, could fill a CM role and can make things happen. Think we really lack a player like him.

All depends on the fee for me. TBH he plays 99% of his games at RW which is position we are pretty covered on TBH. If Adnan even went on loan we still have a shed load of players who can play there. But hey if LVG wants him and we sign him will be another great addition to the squad. Can see him at Chelsea in a Luiz+Cash deal.

 

[zzeezzy]

All depends on the fee for me. TBH he plays 99% of his games at RW which is position we are pretty covered on TBH. If Adnan even went on loan we still have a shed load of players who can play there. But hey if LVG wants him and we sign him will be another great addition to the squad. Can see him at Chelsea in a Luiz+Cash deal.

Yeh, I was more thinking of him for the creative CM role mainly because his passing ability is very strong and he's good at making things happen on the ball. Would be a different option to have, you're right we're covered reasonably but would be a nice option to have just incase on the right flank anyway, he'd probably still get in our team even there tbh. Depay/Di Maria/ Young are predominantly more left sided players.