The Manchester United Thread

So weird seeing these pictures of Utd in Nike gear with an impending change of manufacturer about to happen.
 
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Christian Martin @askomartin Man United negocia con FC Barcelona por Pedro/Man United in talks with FC Barcelona for Pedro

askomartin: We are talks with Barcelona for Pedro.

Apparently his agent has confirmed it.
 
Legend Incredimaria said:
Unfortunately that's football these days...
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Not at every club though. Thats my point. If Everton didnt show that inital faith in Rooney, he could have just as easily been just another good kid that didnt quite fulfill his potential. Same with Stones, Barkley ect. They spot the potential and give them a run in the first team. Proper full hands on experience at a consistent rate. Not just 20 minutes here and there when in a comfortable position as I keep saying.

How old was De Gea when Atletico seen his potential and put him in net and stuck by him? 18? At the time that would be the equivalent of an Arsenal/Spurs/Liverpool throwing in their top 18 year old GK prospect and sticking by them for a season. Its just completely unheard of in this country to give a player that young such a key role in a top side, despite their obvious talent and potential. We end up buying them for £20-40m about 3 years down the line.

Its obviously one of the negative factors of the Sky generation. Too much money is on the line at the top end so the biggest clubs are unwilling to throw a youngster into the team in a key role and let them develop. Well in this country anyway. Its a shame because so many fantastic footballers are not reaching their full potential because they arent pushed enough from an early age. You have the exception of course, like Wenger who is willing to put a youngster in the team despite the mistakes and criticism. Look at Ramsey, Wilshere, Bellerin, Coquelin, Walcott, Clichy, Gibbs and the OX. Yes they have stayed 4th for the best part of 10 years, and im not saying for one minute we should bring through more youngsters at the expense of finishing 4th every year, but us and a lot of other top clubs should put our faith in our own a bit more.
 
steveorobbo said:
Not at every club though. Thats my point. If Everton didnt show that inital faith in Rooney, he could have just as easily been just another good kid that didnt quite fulfill his potential. Same with Stones, Barkley ect. They spot the potential and give them a run in the first team. Proper full hands on experience at a consistent rate. Not just 20 minutes here and there when in a comfortable position as I keep saying.

How old was De Gea when Atletico seen his potential and put him in net and stuck by him? 18? At the time that would be the equivalent of an Arsenal/Spurs/Liverpool throwing in their top 18 year old GK prospect and sticking by them for a season. Its just completely unheard of in this country to give a player that young such a key role in a top side, despite their obvious talent and potential. We end up buying them for £20-40m about 3 years down the line.

Its obviously one of the negative factors of the Sky generation. Too much money is on the line at the top end so the biggest clubs are unwilling to throw a youngster into the team in a key role and let them develop. Well in this country anyway. Its a shame because so many fantastic footballers are not reaching their full potential because they arent pushed enough from an early age. You have the exception of course, like Wenger who is willing to put a youngster in the team despite the mistakes and criticism. Look at Ramsey, Wilshere, Bellerin, Coquelin, Walcott, Clichy, Gibbs and the OX. Yes they have stayed 4th for the best part of 10 years, and im not saying for one minute we should bring through more youngsters at the expense of finishing 4th every year, but us and a lot of other top clubs should put our faith in our own a bit more.
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The point is that the golden era of youth when we had Giggs, Scholes, Neville etc. is a totally different scenario to what we have now - the main point being our current crop are nowhere near as good, there are only a few players who will have potential to be United players. Which we are giving opportunities and adopting round the first team such as Pereira, Januzaj, McNair and Blackett last season.

What more can we do? If they are not good enough they won't get near the first team but the ones who are as proven last season very much have a place/opportunity to train and potentially become a part of our first team squad. There are exceptions but honestly I don't think we are as bad as you're making out.
 
steveorobbo said:
.....
Its obviously one of the negative factors of the Sky generation. Too much money is on the line at the top end so the biggest clubs are unwilling to throw a youngster into the team in a key role and let them develop. Well in this country anyway. Its a shame because so many fantastic footballers are not reaching their full potential because they arent pushed enough from an early age. You have the exception of course, like Wenger who is willing to put a youngster in the team despite the mistakes and criticism. Look at Ramsey, Wilshere, Bellerin, Coquelin, Walcott, Clichy, Gibbs and the OX. Yes they have stayed 4th for the best part of 10 years, and im not saying for one minute we should bring through more youngsters at the expense of finishing 4th every year, but us and a lot of other top clubs should put our faith in our own a bit more.
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Pretty much the top and bottom of it.

Managers at clubs like Everton, where there's far less high pressure stakes, are afforded the time to develop youngsters with all the inevitable mistakes they make as they learn. At a club like Utd, where this stakes are a whole lot higher, managers always have one eye on their jobs so are scared to have a kid make a costly mistake on a regular basis as he learns the game. Managers just don't get the time to do that these days and properly build a club. If you're lucky at a top club you get a 2 year window and then the it's 'next man up.' Your greatest ever manager is a prime example. If he was starting out now, and went the duration he went those first 5/6 years without silverware he'd of been well out of the position way before that Forest game and what followed probably wouldn't have. Wenger and Arsenal is the complete exception to the modern day rule at the very top end.

As much good that has come out of the cash cow of the Premier League, there's been way more bad to the game as a whole.
 
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zzeezzy said:
The point is that the golden era of youth when we had Giggs, Scholes, Neville etc. is a totally different scenario to what we have now - the main point being our current crop are nowhere near as good, there are only a few players who will have potential to be United players. Which we are giving opportunities and adopting round the first team such as Pereira, Januzaj, McNair and Blackett last season.

What more can we do? If they are not good enough they won't get near the first team but the ones who are as proven last season very much have a place/opportunity to train and potentially become a part of our first team squad. There are exceptions but honestly I don't think we are as bad as you're making out.
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You forgot Wilson and Lingard. :)
 
Theatreof Dreams said:
You forgot Wilson and Lingard. :)
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Yes you're right, in my opinion if the youth is good enough we are still giving them every chance to make it in first team, if they don't play many games straight away they still get to train alongside these players which is great for them.
 
zzeezzy said:
Yes you're right, in my opinion if the youth is good enough we are still giving them every chance to make it in first team, if they don't play many games straight away they still get to train alongside these players which is great for them.
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Exactly! ;) Looking forward to seeing Goss play on tour!
 
zzeezzy said:
The point is that the golden era of youth when we had Giggs, Scholes, Neville etc. is a totally different scenario to what we have now - the main point being our current crop are nowhere near as good, there are only a few players who will have potential to be United players. Which we are giving opportunities and adopting round the first team such as Pereira, Januzaj, McNair and Blackett last season.

What more can we do? If they are not good enough they won't get near the first team but the ones who are as proven last season very much have a place/opportunity to train and potentially become a part of our first team squad. There are exceptions but honestly I don't think we are as bad as you're making out.
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Thats a bit unfair to be honest. How do we know the current crop arent good enough of they arent being given the chance. Same for the youth players of the last 10-15 years. We could have had the likes of Rio Ferdinand, Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard in our youth teams over the years but was never thrown into the team when their ability started to show above all others at the same age. Because they dont get the game time, they cant develope and stagnate.

Michael Keane is a cracking little defender. If he had been put into first team games from 18 or so who knows how much he may have developed. Thats just one example. But yeh Scouse pretty much hit the nail on the head. Top clubs dont give players time to develope because of all the pressures of staying at the top and the financial implications. Its a shame.
 
steveorobbo said:
Thats a bit unfair to be honest. How do we know the current crop arent good enough of they arent being given the chance. Same for the youth players of the last 10-15 years. We could have had the likes of Rio Ferdinand, Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard in our youth teams over the years but was never thrown into the team when their ability started to show above all others at the same age. Because they dont get the game time, they cant develope and stagnate.

Michael Keane is a cracking little defender. If he had been put into first team games from 18 or so who knows how much he may have developed. Thats just one example. But yeh Scouse pretty much hit the nail on the head. Top clubs dont give players time to develope because of all the pressures of staying at the top and the financial implications. Its a shame.
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100% correct the notion that if a young player is good enough he will get games is wrong. Nowadays managers are under soo much pressure to get results throwing a talented yet unconsistant young player would be suicidal at a top club because instant results are required. You have to expect young players to be dog ***** sometimes because they are still learning. Unfortunately all this money being pumped into the game means results are required to climb up the table and get a bigger share of the sky money cake.
 
steveorobbo said:
Thats a bit unfair to be honest. How do we know the current crop arent good enough of they arent being given the chance. Same for the youth players of the last 10-15 years. We could have had the likes of Rio Ferdinand, Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard in our youth teams over the years but was never thrown into the team when their ability started to show above all others at the same age. Because they dont get the game time, they cant develope and stagnate.

Michael Keane is a cracking little defender. If he had been put into first team games from 18 or so who knows how much he may have developed. Thats just one example. But yeh Scouse pretty much hit the nail on the head. Top clubs dont give players time to develope because of all the pressures of staying at the top and the financial implications. Its a shame.
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Pretty sure he had a first team chance....
 
steveorobbo said:
Thats a bit unfair to be honest. How do we know the current crop arent good enough of they arent being given the chance. Same for the youth players of the last 10-15 years. We could have had the likes of Rio Ferdinand, Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard in our youth teams over the years but was never thrown into the team when their ability started to show above all others at the same age. Because they dont get the game time, they cant develope and stagnate.

Michael Keane is a cracking little defender. If he had been put into first team games from 18 or so who knows how much he may have developed. Thats just one example. But yeh Scouse pretty much hit the nail on the head. Top clubs dont give players time to develope because of all the pressures of staying at the top and the financial implications. Its a shame.
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Micheal keane was given a chance by fergie tho...
 
steveorobbo said:
1 Premier League game and 4 league cup games over a 4 year period? Yeh massive chance that :(

And it was HALF a Premier League game.
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Your whole point was based around them not getting any chance... can't suddenly say oh well they do but it's not enough. Manager can assess them under first team level and then if they make it to first team, maybe they realise the player just isn't good enough, by the way they train with first team or perform. Seriously though, your example of Michael Keane was a bad one because he's a decent defender, nothing more. I think you're being over critical for no good reason when it's clear we still very much have youth as part of our plans and that is proven by how they are still coming through the first team. (Just look at pre season now and last season in general).

The extra-ordinary ones usually make it.... the ordinary don't (Michael Keane).
 
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zzeezzy said:
Your whole point was based around them not getting any chance... can't suddenly say oh well they do but it's not enough. Manager can assess them under first team level and then if they make it to first team, maybe they realise the player just isn't good enough, by the way they train with first team or perform. Seriously though, your example of Michael Keane was a bad one because he's a decent defender, nothing more. I think you're being over critical for no good reason when it's clear we still very much have youth as part of our plans and that is proven by how they are still coming through the first team. (Just look at pre season now and last season in general).

The extra-ordinary ones make it.... the ordinary don't (Michael Keane).
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You call HALF of a Premier League game a chance? 4 League cup games over 4 years, one a 20 minute appearance at the end of a nothing game. Keane is a perfect example. Best player in the Under 21's. Voted for by the fans. Numerous Championship loans at a young age where he was excellent. How do you know he's nothing more than a decent defender? Im sure John Terry was a decent defender at that time aswell. But Chelsea put him in the first team and he developed into one of the best English defenders. Keane could have been the same if he got more than half a Premiership game. BTW when he did play he did absolutely nothing wrong. How do the ordinary go to extra-ordinary? They get a chance consistently at the highest level and have faith shown in them. Not even going to carry this on with you. Half a Premier League game is a chance?
 
WOW cant really believe we are debating our trust in youth and giving youth a chance :O May as well be comparing Schniederlin to Corzola again. What a joke!
 
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