The Manchester United Thread

[Theatreof Dreams]

Man Utd's incredible 75 year streak - One homegrown player in every single squad for 75 years


People can get a little sick of stats in football some times, understandably. It gets to the stage where the numbers seem to suck all sense of spontaneous joy from the game.
With that in mind, here’s one that's a little different to the usual OPTA stuff, and one that should impress - Manchester United have had a graduate from their youth system in every single match day squad since October 30, 1937. That’s 75 years, or 3,623 consecutive games.
And, if that wasn’t impressive enough, up until 2011 there was a player from the youth system in every single starting XI for 73 years. However, on May 1, 2011 John O'Shea started the game on the bench against Arsenal.
Two historians, Tony Park and Steve Hobin, have written and researched an exhaustive history of the United youth academy – Sons of United.
From the Busby babes through the mid to late nineties years of Fergie’s fledglings and on to the current generation of Danny Welbeck and Tom Cleverly there has never been a time in 75 years that the United first team hasn’t been driven by some homegrown talent. Perhaps the most impressive feat in that period is making it through the Premier League era with their run intact, as the practice of producing and fielding home-grown players becomes less and less a part of football at the top level.
That period includes 17 league titles, 3 European Cups and 10 FA Cups. Not bad.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

[h=1]When it comes to giving youth a chance and producing players for England, United really are different class[/h]By Neil Ashton for the Daily Mail https://twitter.com/intent/follow?screen_name=@neilashton_&tw_p=followbutton
Published: 00:01, 1 May 2013 | Updated: 10:44, 1 May 2013


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...youth-players--Neil-Ashton.html#ixzz3gSW5BRa6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Man Utd opinion: MUFC academy is a credit to the club

• • 15:49, 13 January 2015
• • Opinion
  • 
  • by RobDawson

[h=2]Rather than losing their identity, MEN Sport's Rob Dawson says Manchester United's youth policy is an example to be followed.[/h]




[h=1]Revealed: The ultimate football factory - Manchester United have included a graduate from their youth set-up in EVERY first-team squad since 1937… that’s 3,623 games[/h]By Adam Shergold for MailOnline https://twitter.com/intent/follow?screen_name=@adamjshergold&tw_p=followbutton
Published: 13:20, 8 February 2013 | Updated: 14:27, 8 February 2013


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-graduate-EVERY-SQUAD-1937.html#ixzz3gSWoNQz0
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[steveorobbo]

2011 we had Keane in the reserves and on the fringes appearing in League Cup games. Obviously showing a lot of potential. What do we do? Keep him in the reserves all year where he outclasses everyone and by far wins the player of the year award. Great potential. What do we do? Go and spend £16m on Phil Jones that same year because he had a few decent games for Blackburn. If Keane would have been at blackburn and we had Jones, probably the same would have happened. Because Keane would have got his chance at Blackburn and put in good performances. Jones would have been stuck in the reserves for a year not getting a sniff.

Our own youth dont get enough chances on a consistent basis to prove themselves. Instead we ***** Millions on kids the same age that look good because they are actually getting game time elsewhere and developing their game.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

You call HALF of a Premier League game a chance? 4 League cup games over 4 years, one a 20 minute appearance at the end of a nothing game. Keane is a perfect example. Best player in the Under 21's. Voted for by the fans. Numerous Championship loans at a young age where he was excellent. How do you know he's nothing more than a decent defender? Im sure John Terry was a decent defender at that time aswell. But Chelsea put him in the first team and he developed into one of the best English defenders. Keane could have been the same if he got more than half a Premiership game. BTW when he did play he did absolutely nothing wrong. How do the ordinary go to extra-ordinary? They get a chance consistently at the highest level and have faith shown in them. Not even going to carry this on with you. Half a Premier League game is a chance?

That's a serious bugbear of mine in today's game. Managers who bring a kid in for a league cup game for example, and then he disappears for another 2 or 3 months before he get's a pointless 15 minutes or so at the end of a league game. That's no good to anyone. What makes it more annoying now is there's 7 subs. If you've identified one or two prospects you've nurtured who you really think have a chance to make it and who stand out above the rest; there's absolutely no excuse to not get them involved on a regular basis with the first team on the bench. Not a game here or there and then nobody heres from the for months. REGULARLY involved.

With 7 subs, there's absolutely no earthly reason not to. It's the same with your point about developing your own 'keeper. As we've discussed, there's even less of a chance of doing that as a starter in today's no patience game. But there's absolutely NO excuse to not have one on the bench. The amount of foreign no-mark 'keepers that are back up's in England is criminal. And the way the whole resize structure has changed, most don't get any games in a season at ANY level save for the odd cup game.

If you think a youngsters good enough there's no excuse with the bigger bench these days to not have him involved regularly with the first team.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

2011 we had Keane in the reserves and on the fringes appearing in League Cup games. Obviously showing a lot of potential. What do we do? Keep him in the reserves all year where he outclasses everyone and by far wins the player of the year award. Great potential. What do we do? Go and spend £16m on Phil Jones that same year because he had a few decent games for Blackburn. If Keane would have been at blackburn and we had Jones, probably the same would have happened. Because Keane would have got his chance at Blackburn and put in good performances. Jones would have been stuck in the reserves for a year not getting a sniff.

Our own youth dont get enough chances on a consistent basis to prove themselves. Instead we ***** Millions on kids the same age that look good because they are actually getting game time elsewhere and developing their game.

Will Keane is not good enough for Utd. In fact a lot of people on the Utd Forums rated Thorpe higher than Keane. What has Keane shown at Burnley, that proves we were mistaken in selling him. Bottom line is apart from a couple of good games, he was poor and ultimately benched.

 

[steveorobbo]

Man Utd's incredible 75 year streak - One homegrown player in every single squad for 75 years


People can get a little sick of stats in football some times, understandably. It gets to the stage where the numbers seem to suck all sense of spontaneous joy from the game.
With that in mind, here’s one that's a little different to the usual OPTA stuff, and one that should impress - Manchester United have had a graduate from their youth system in every single match day squad since October 30, 1937. That’s 75 years, or 3,623 consecutive games.
And, if that wasn’t impressive enough, up until 2011 there was a player from the youth system in every single starting XI for 73 years. However, on May 1, 2011 John O'Shea started the game on the bench against Arsenal.
Two historians, Tony Park and Steve Hobin, have written and researched an exhaustive history of the United youth academy – Sons of United.
From the Busby babes through the mid to late nineties years of Fergie’s fledglings and on to the current generation of Danny Welbeck and Tom Cleverly there has never been a time in 75 years that the United first team hasn’t been driven by some homegrown talent. Perhaps the most impressive feat in that period is making it through the Premier League era with their run intact, as the practice of producing and fielding home-grown players becomes less and less a part of football at the top level.
That period includes 17 league titles, 3 European Cups and 10 FA Cups. Not bad.

Giggs took up 25 years of that 75 on his own ffs. Thats without going back years where clubs hardly bought any foreigners or had money to spend left, right and centre.

Who in the current first team is "home grown"? Cleverley and Welbeck have gone. Smalling and Jones arsent classed as home grown in that sense. Nor is Rooney. You could argue Januzaj and Pereira because we buy foreign kids that early now. Even in the squad there is only really McNair and Blackett that have been given a chance. And that was forced because of a massive injury crisis.

 

[steveorobbo]

Will Keane is not good enough for Utd. In fact a lot of people on the Utd Forums rated Thorpe higher than Keane. What has Keane shown at Burnley, that proves we were mistaken in selling him. Bottom line is apart from a couple of good games, he was poor and ultimately benched.

Michael Keane. Maybe he hasnt shown that we was wrong to let him go while hes been at Burnley, but if we had him in the squad from when he was taking the **** for the under-21's at around 18 years of age and walked away with player of the year, and got him involved in say 10 or so games a season with a few starts thrown in, and consistently training with the first team, he would have been a **** of a lot better than he is now. I dont see how anyone could argue otherwise. He went on loan to Burnley and did so well they snapped him up at a bargain price. He was holding his own in the Championship at 18/19 training day in day out with dross. Are you seriously saying if he had stayed at United in the first team squad and got decent game time he'd still be the player he is now? Its ridiculous. Phil Jones proves my point. Few decent games for Blackburn and we spend £16 million on him. Oh its perfectly fine to give that 19 year old game time seeing as you have spunked **** loads of money on him. But not one of our own that we have put time and effort into and the talent was there for all to see? Its stupid

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

The ultimate is having local players come right through and play for the club.

A true Manchester born youngster like Remi Moses (stick with me here ) or Paul Scholes.

Doesn't get ANY better than that.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

Michael Keane. Maybe he hasnt shown that we was wrong to let him go while hes been at Burnley, but if we had him in the squad from when he was taking the **** for the under-21's at around 18 years of age and walked away with player of the year, and got him involved in say 10 or so games a season with a few starts thrown in, and consistently training with the first team, he would have been a **** of a lot better than he is now. I dont see how anyone could argue otherwise. He went on loan to Burnley and did so well they snapped him up at a bargain price. He was holding his own in the Championship at 18/19 training day in day out with dross. Are you seriously saying if he had stayed at United in the first team squad and got decent game time he'd still be the player he is now? Its ridiculous. Phil Jones proves my point. Few decent games for Blackburn and we spend £16 million on him. Oh its perfectly fine to give that 19 year old game time seeing as you have spunked **** loads of money on him. But not one of our own that we have put time and effort into and the talent was there for all to see? Its stupid

Just because he was playing well in the Reserves and holding his own in the Championship does not guarantee he will be a success. Theres a lot of things we don't know, we don't see him training, no his mentality and so on. The fact that he was deemed not good enough by 2 of the best is good enough for me. And he was far from flawless in the Reserves anyway. And Jones was showing he was good enough in the Prem against top players. Keane was doing ok in the Championship. We can go on all night, you have your opinion and I have mine. Who knows whos right and whos wrong, but tbh I think we are right up there with given youth a chance and that's all im gonna say on the matter.

 

[steveorobbo]

Just because he was playing well in the Reserves and holding his own in the Championship does not guarantee he will be a success. Theres a lot of things we don't know, we don't see him training, no his mentality and so on. The fact that he was deemed not good enough by 2 of the best is good enough for me. And he was far from flawless in the Reserves anyway. And Jones was showing he was good enough in the Prem against top players. Keane was doing ok in the Championship. We can go on all night, you have your opinion and I have mine. Who knows whos right and whos wrong, but tbh I think we are right up there with given youth a chance and that's all im gonna say on the matter.

And that's my point. Jones was holding his own in the premier league because Blackburn gave him that chance. How can you prove your good enough without games? The way its going we may as well just scrap our youth teams altogether, let them all join lower premiership clubs where they WILL get a chance on a consistent basis then buy them all back in 3 years for £20m a piece.

As has already been pointed out, the clubs at the top can't afford to throw these kids in and give them a consistent run of games now. But they can afford to buy which ever kid catches they eye at a mid table club. McNair probably wouldn't have got a sniff last season if it wasn't for the injury crisis. But he got thrown in and held his own. If not for the injuries, he would have probably been stuck in the reserves all year and loaned out this year and be sold next year without kicking a first team ball. And people would be saying he obviously wasn't good enough because he didn't get a chance. Well he did get a chance, and has shown he could be good enough. But it took exceptional circumstances for him to even get that chance in the first place.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

And that's my point. Jones was holding his own in the premier league because Blackburn gave him that chance. How can you prove your good enough without games? The way its going we may as well just scrap our youth teams altogether, let them all join lower premiership clubs where they WILL get a chance on a consistent basis then buy them all back in 3 years for £20m a piece.

As has already been pointed out, the clubs at the top can't afford to throw these kids in and give them a consistent run of games now. But they can afford to buy which ever kid catches they eye at a mid table club. McNair probably wouldn't have got a sniff last season if it wasn't for the injury crisis. But he got thrown in and held his own. If not for the injuries, he would have probably been stuck in the reserves all year and loaned out this year and be sold next year without kicking a first team ball. And people would be saying he obviously wasn't good enough because he didn't get a chance. Well he did get a chance, and has shown he could be good enough. But it took exceptional circumstances for him to even get that chance in the first place.

You cant say that with any fact, evidence or anything that they would not have got a chance!

 

[steveorobbo]

You cant say that with any fact, evidence or anything that they would not have got a chance!

Maybe not. But past trends lean towards that theory. Were all already crying for another defender now further pushing him down the pecking order instead of using a kid that held his own last season.

We'll see what happens with McNair this season. Absolutely no reason whatsoever not to keep him in the squad and give him game time. Or we could go in last minute for Stones for £30m. After all, he's had a chance and held his own hasn't he.

 

[Chelski Shogun]

Maybe not. But past trends lean towards that theory. Were all already crying for another defender now further pushing him down the pecking order instead of using a kid that held his own last season.

We'll see what happens with McNair this season. Absolutely no reason whatsoever not to keep him in the squad and give him game time. Or we could go in last minute for Stones for £30m. After all, he's had a chance and held his own hasn't he.

Hands off! He's ours!

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

Maybe not. But past trends lean towards that theory. Were all already crying for another defender now further pushing him down the pecking order instead of using a kid that held his own last season.

We'll see what happens with McNair this season. Absolutely no reason whatsoever not to keep him in the squad and give him game time. Or we could go in last minute for Stones for £30m. After all, he's had a chance and held his own hasn't he.

Past trends lean towards nothing with new coaching staff and a new manager, who is known for giving youth a chance no matter what age.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Hands off! He's ours!

Sighs. I hate that Everton would never sell him to us if we offered £60 million.

Weird fact. Up until U-18 level, both clubs refuse to play each other for fear of having players poached. Honestly. In today's age when anyone can get most any game, they still have that fear of each other.

Beardsley os the only one I can remember that got a great reception at the other club after he moved. And after the scandalous abuse both Barmby and Xavier got from the bitters I don't think anyone would want to move across the park anytime soon.

Sighs. The 'joys' of being in a 2 club City where football is still the all consuming passion.

 

[steveorobbo]

Past trends lean towards nothing with new coaching staff and a new manager, who is known for giving youth a chance no matter what age.

All bullshit aside, do you honestly think McNair and Blackett would have got the chance they did last year if it wasn't for the massive injury crisis? I don't think so. They got thrown in because there was literally nobody left. Maybe they would have got a chance this year but given the money we are throwing around I highly doubt it. Maybe the odd league cup game while we're still in it but nothing like the game time and experience from that they gained last year

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

All bullshit aside, do you honestly think McNair and Blackett would have got the chance they did last year if it wasn't for the massive injury crisis? I don't think so. They got thrown in because there was literally nobody left. Maybe they would have got a chance this year but given the money we are throwing around I highly doubt it. Maybe the odd league cup game while we're still in it but nothing like the game time and experience from that they gained last year

TBH yes I do under LVG. When we started getting injuries right at the start of the season we could of just as easily gone out and bought someone to do a job. The fact is from the start LVG praised all the youngsters from when he 1st started seeing them play on Tour and did what he has always said and done. If your good enough you will play.

 

[steveorobbo]

TBH yes I do under LVG. When we started getting injuries right at the start of the season we could of just as easily gone out and bought someone to do a job. The fact is from the start LVG praised all the youngsters from when he 1st started seeing them play on Tour and did what he has always said and done. If your good enough you will play.

Let's hope he sticks to that this year with McNair then. I'd expect him at the very least to play as many games as he did last season. Obviously with champions league, there should be more opportunity to rotate. Especially with our run of early premiership games against what we would class as ideal opponents to give a chance to players.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Past trends lean towards nothing with new coaching staff and a new manager, who is known for giving youth a chance no matter what age.

Is he? Honest question as I can think of maybe 4 at Barca and Bayern who broke through under him.

I don't class Ajax and AZ as that's the staple of a Coach working in Holland.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

Let's hope he sticks to that this year with McNair then. I'd expect him at the very least to play as many games as he did last season. Obviously with champions league, there should be more opportunity to rotate. Especially with our run of early premiership games against what we would class as ideal opponents to give a chance to players.

I hope so to and have no reason to believe he wont. TBH I would not be disappointed if we did not sign a CB even if Evans was sold. Jones,Smalling,Rojo are good enough imo and with the emergence of Blackett and especially McNair I think that would be good enough with our new stronger more defensive midfield signings. And I think this year we could see the likes of Tuanzebe and Mensah getting game times in the Cups and coming through next season if they go on Tour. Who knows what LVG is thinking.