The Manchester United Thread

[damola3]

In the modern era of big money, Premier League football, any football fan who claims Liverpool are a bigger or better club than Manchester United should really think about returning to full time education.

It's like standing in a garage forecourt insisting that your Fiat Uno is a better car than a Toyota Celica.

Arsenal and Chelsea have more fans, a bigger brand
, better squads, better managers, better finances, better future prospects in football, plus Arsene have a new stadium. The only claim that Liverpool can have to be better in the number of trophies won, however they haven't had a sustained period of success since the 80's when most players weren't born. That's like saying Nottingham Forest have a better chance of the Champions League than Arsenal because of Brian Clough's 2 European Cup wins. United are the biggest in the world and Liverpool don't come close to Arsenal and Chelsea, let alone United. No player in their right mind would join Liverpool over these clubs.

 

[dasty]

I think our defense is not as bad as people here made it out to be. Last year our back four were exposed time and time again because we do not have a midfielder that is good at defending most of the time. When Carrick is out, we had to play the likes of Herrera and Rooney there, which really isn't the most solid midfield you can find. Blind is good, but it was obvious that he was a bit tired at the end of the season and wasn't doing well in his midfield role at all (can't blame him, playing the whole season Ajax, then World Cup, then straight to us without a significant break is a daunting task). Fellaini is really awful when it comes to defensive play too, and when you throw a winger playing as RB into the equation it became a huge mess.

We had sorted our midfield problems out with Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin now. I do not need to talk much about Schneiderlin as everyone knows he is easily one of the best DM in the league and Schweinsteiger, well, might not be the most defensive minded midfielder but his positioning is always pristine. Darmian too is a player with the defend-first mindset and that would be really helpful for us, especially when compared to Valencia.

Yes, we might need a centerback to further improve our team, but if we don't our squad is still good enough to challenge for the title as long as the team gels.

 

[sunilvk7]

I think our defense is not as bad as people here made it out to be. Last year our back four were exposed time and time again because we do not have a midfielder that is good at defending most of the time. When Carrick is out, we had to play the likes of Herrera and Rooney there, which really isn't the most solid midfield you can find. Blind is good, but it was obvious that he was a bit tired at the end of the season and wasn't doing well in his midfield role at all (can't blame him, playing the whole season Ajax, then World Cup, then straight to us without a significant break is a daunting task). Fellaini is really awful when it comes to defensive play too, and when you throw a winger playing as RB into the equation it became a huge mess.

We had sorted our midfield problems out with Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin now. I do not need to talk much about Schneiderlin as everyone knows he is easily one of the best DM in the league and Schweinsteiger, well, might not be the most defensive minded midfielder but his positioning is always pristine. Darmian too is a player with the defend-first mindset and that would be really helpful for us, especially when compared to Valencia.

Yes, we might need a centerback to further improve our team, but if we don't our squad is still good enough to challenge for the title as long as the team gels.

Exactly. Defending should be as a team. Obviously you need someone in the defense to be a leader and hold the line but the first line of defense should be from strikers. We barely had defensive mid to protect the defense and also chopping and changing every game didn't help either.

With Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin added, I would expect much better defensive performance this year.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

The delusion is strong in here this AM.

 

[damola3]

Atletico and Dortmund haven't had better squads than the BPL top 4, hover have performed better in Europe and won domestic league's because of better team cohesion, tactic planning and consistency. On paper, Liverpool should have made the knockouts, Arsenal should have thrashed Monaco and Chelsea should have comfortably despatched Monaco, however English teams we're a tactical mess. The top 3 are all talented enough to win it without and real holes in their squads. United conceded 38 goals to Chelsea's 32 last season. To put that in perspective, there was no one to shield the defense for United and Schneiderlin should make the difference. I disagree about Schweinstiger shielding the defence, as he's a deep lying playmaker that dictates the tempo. When Coquelin came into the team in the second half of the season, we kept 9 league clean sheets. I expect Schneiderlin to have that effect on United. United scored only 62 goals last season, compared to the 71 and 73 of Arsenal and Chelsea. This was epitomised by you failing world class strikers that scored 27 in the league between them. This was probably due to a lack of cohesion in attacking areas, causing a lack of creativity.

 

[sunilvk7]

The delusion is strong in here this AM.

I agree.

Spoiler

You both continue to sell L'pool short on the Continent.

For a start, Reus would NEVER join Munich. He's open about that as a Dortmund boy. With him coming from there, and being of a very similar mentality to Klopp when you read any interviews he gives, I doubt London would attract him like other foreigners particularly. So that levels it with Chelsea and Arsenal. And Mourinho aside, for a lot of traditional European's like Reus, Liverpool is a club they hold far higher than either of the other 2. ****, staying in the North wasn't the only reason Milner never seriously considered Arsenal and a reported higher wage offer for a recent example. And we are only one year removed from finishing second. With a major German addition added this summer. Utd is a wash outside of a player wanting ore in wages. An Italian club? Behave. Barca and Madrid I'll grant you.

But the point being although Champions League football is a big factor to players that we can't offer this year, the club is still a highly attractive prospect. And not many clubs look after it's players better. Players and agents Europe wide know that.

Not many players we've been in for the past decade say that have chosen to go elsewhere outside of the attraction of London and higher wages. But those players that have gone to lesser clubs for a higher wage packet aren't the characters you want anyways.

Just because successive managers have been boneheaded enough to shop in the mid tier, squad filling range instead of going all out and making the major splash we've gotten this bizarre labelling of being 'unattractive.'

It's a hypothetical as it's not happened, but I'm **** sure we'd be high on Reus' list if we we're in and he wanted a move away from Dortmund.

If ever anyone wanted to know the difference between between the Country's 2 biggest clubs last year, there's the major one right there.

 

[sunilvk7]

Atletico and Dortmund haven't had better squads than the BPL top 4, hover have performed better in Europe and won domestic league's because of better team cohesion, tactic planning and consistency. On paper, Liverpool should have made the knockouts, Arsenal should have thrashed Monaco and Chelsea should have comfortably despatched Monaco, however English teams we're a tactical mess. The top 3 are all talented enough to win it without and real holes in their squads. United conceded 38 goals to Chelsea's 32 last season. To put that in perspective, there was no one to shield the defense for United and Schneiderlin should make the difference. I disagree about Schweinstiger shielding the defence, as he's a deep lying playmaker that dictates the tempo. When Coquelin came into the team in the second half of the season, we kept 9 league clean sheets. I expect Schneiderlin to have that effect on United. United scored only 62 goals last season, compared to the 71 and 73 of Arsenal and Chelsea. This was epitomised by you failing world class strikers that scored 27 in the league between them. This was probably due to a lack of cohesion in attacking areas, causing a lack of creativity.

You think Schweinsteiger is like Pirlo don't you? You should watch his role for Bayern, he was their midfield engine.

 

[Legend Incredible]

Schweinsteiger is NOT pirlo...

 

[Chelski Shogun]

Atletico and Dortmund haven't had better squads than the BPL top 4, hover have performed better in Europe and won domestic league's because of better team cohesion, tactic planning and consistency. On paper, Liverpool should have made the knockouts, Arsenal should have thrashed Monaco and Chelsea should have comfortably despatched Monaco, however English teams we're a tactical mess. The top 3 are all talented enough to win it without and real holes in their squads. United conceded 38 goals to Chelsea's 32 last season. To put that in perspective, there was no one to shield the defense for United and Schneiderlin should make the difference. I disagree about Schweinstiger shielding the defence, as he's a deep lying playmaker that dictates the tempo. When Coquelin came into the team in the second half of the season, we kept 9 league clean sheets. I expect Schneiderlin to have that effect on United. United scored only 62 goals last season, compared to the 71 and 73 of Arsenal and Chelsea. This was epitomised by you failing world class strikers that scored 27 in the league between them. This was probably due to a lack of cohesion in attacking areas, causing a lack of creativity.

I'm sorry but that's absolute drivel. Atletico's 2013/2014 squad and Dortmund's 2011/2012 squad were far better than some of the squads Arsenal, Chelsea, City and United have had in recent years. Also how did United in 2012/2013, City in 2013/2014 and Chelsea last season win the league without great team cohesion, tactical planning and consistency?

Edit: Where have they been better in Europe as well? In recent years, yes, but overall absolutely not. Atletico have never won the competition and Dortmund have only ever won it once and that was way back in 1997.

 

[zzeezzy]

How do we not need a CB? How inconsistent was our partnerships at the back last season? Won't win anything with that. We were better defensively mainly because of De Gea who saved a fuckton of clear chances and LVG's organisation through the systems he used.

As soon as Jones/Smalling picks up inevitable injuries we will be chopping and changing at the back like no tomorrow. We only have Rojo who I'd be otherwise confident with... other then that we've got ****** Blackett/McNair/Evans. Those three all made regular mistakes in matches when they were used anyway so they shouldn't even be at this level. McNair I can forgive as he put in few good performances as well, moreso than Blackett or Evans who are not good enough for this level.

Without a CB addition we have no hope in Premier League for title, don't care about 4th best defence nonsense, De Gea was our saving grace.

 

[sunilvk7]

How do we not need a CB? How inconsistent was our partnerships at the back last season? Won't win anything with that. We were better defensively mainly because of De Gea who saved a fuckton of clear chances and LVG's organisation through the systems he used.

You also need proper midfielders to protect defense. There is no team in the world who are defensively very good with out a proper defensive midfielder.

Saying that hopefully we sign good and experienced CB.

 

[razielioux]

How do we not need a CB? How inconsistent was our partnerships at the back last season? Won't win anything with that. We were better defensively mainly because of De Gea who saved a fuckton of clear chances and LVG's organisation through the systems he used.

As soon as Jones/Smalling picks up inevitable injuries we will be chopping and changing at the back like no tomorrow. We only have Rojo who I'd be otherwise confident with... other then that we've got ****** Blackett/McNair/Evans. Those three all made regular mistakes in matches when they were used anyway so they shouldn't even be at this level. McNair I can forgive as he put in few good performances as well, moreso than Blackett or Evans who are not good enough for this level.

Without a CB addition we have no hope in Premier League for title, don't care about 4th best defence nonsense, De Gea was our saving grace.

Just wait and see Blind ending up as CB. :-/

 

[steveorobbo]

How do we not need a CB? How inconsistent was our partnerships at the back last season? Won't win anything with that. We were better defensively mainly because of De Gea who saved a fuckton of clear chances and LVG's organisation through the systems he used.

As soon as Jones/Smalling picks up inevitable injuries we will be chopping and changing at the back like no tomorrow. We only have Rojo who I'd be otherwise confident with... other then that we've got ****** Blackett/McNair/Evans. Those three all made regular mistakes in matches when they were used anyway so they shouldn't even be at this level. McNair I can forgive as he put in few good performances as well, moreso than Blackett or Evans who are not good enough for this level.

Without a CB addition we have no hope in Premier League for title, don't care about 4th best defence nonsense, De Gea was our saving grace.

I hardly seen McNair put a foot wrong last season. Considering he just got thrown in which would have been a hard task anyway, then having to cope firstly with the 3 at the back formation, often alongside Blackett who I think is absolute ****, and just hoofed the ball forward whenever he got it giving away possession. Later on in the season when we was more settled and he got games in a back 4, his composure on the ball was unbelievable. Didnt look phased at all bringing it out and taking command. Something we know LVG likes in a defender so hopefully he's gone above Evans in the pecking order and will get a lot more game time this season.

Having Schneiderlin in the team will make a massive difference. Just as much as a new CB would have IMO. For the last 2 years hes been the best holding midfielder in the Premier League, for SOUTHAMPTON. There was Matic at Chelsea, who was excellent and rightly got the plaudits he deserved, but it seems the fact he was at Chelsea somehow puts him on another level. Schneiderlin was just as good if not better. If he carries on, most teams wont even get past him to get a shot off, never mind try to get past the back 4.

People keep banging on about De Gea. Yes he was great. Saved a lot of shots where 90% of the time you would expect a goal. But that was last year. 2 completely different teams. How many goals did we concede in the first half of the season compared to the second? We conceded 5 against Leicester in 1 game FFS. Our defense and play in general improved massively in the second half of the season when we settled and had 4 at the back. Smalling was a completely different player in the second half and theres no reason at all why he cant carry on. Every defender at the club will be a lot more calm and composed aswell knowing they now have Schneiderlin and to an extent Schweinsteiger infront of them.

We will be a lot harder to beat this season. We have a proper right back in Darmian. Schweinsteiger that will control the pace of the game in a way that we havent really seen since Scholes, even though Carrick was quite good at that when playing (not often). The best holding midfielder in the league sat infront of the defense in Schneiderlin. A full season under a new manager and his methods. A set formation from the kickoff that has been worked on for half of last season plus a full pre-season. Hopefully a fit Luke Shaw that will hit the ground running if reports of him taking a fitness coach on holiday with him are to be believed. More quality players in each position this year than last year. We have Fellaini back to his best. Herrera settled in (dont forget he only played for the second half of the season and thats when we started to improve).

Even if we dont buy another player, we are in a much better position than last year and should improve massively in all areas this season.

 

[sunilvk7]

I hardly seen McNair put a foot wrong last season. Considering he just got thrown in which would have been a hard task anyway, then having to cope firstly with the 3 at the back formation, often alongside Blackett who I think is absolute ****, and just hoofed the ball forward whenever he got it giving away possession. Later on in the season when we was more settled and he got games in a back 4, his composure on the ball was unbelievable. Didnt look phased at all bringing it out and taking command. Something we know LVG likes in a defender so hopefully he's gone above Evans in the pecking order and will get a lot more game time this season.

It was against Chelsea away isn't it, McNair just played like a seasoned ball playing CB and started many attacks from the back. His composure on the ball was unreal. Also he shat bricks against southampton and was subbed off within half an hour and IIRC he was **** against Everton away.

I rate him though, will be a good option for us. His ability on the ball is very much needed for the way Van Gaal wants his team to play.

 

[sunilvk7]

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[steveorobbo]

It was against Chelsea away isn't it, McNair just played like a seasoned ball playing CB and started many attacks from the back. His composure on the ball was unreal. Also he shat bricks against southampton and was subbed off within half an hour and IIRC he was **** against Everton away.

I rate him though, will be a good option for us. His ability on the ball is very much needed for the way Van Gaal wants his team to play.

Yes it was Chelsea. As much as I like McNair, when I saw the team sheet I feared the worst but he was by far one of the best players on the pitch. He reminded me of Rio at his best coming out with the ball with confidence. You could expect it in a league cup game against some league 2 side but away at a Chelsea team running away with the league? I really hope he gets more game time this year, at the expense of Evans.

Look what happened after the Southampton game. Most players that age would lose all confidence and never be the same again. He came back better. Obviously theres an odd mistake here and there but thats expected.

I remember a time when we embraced bringing through youngsters and giving them a chance. Now it seems most have the attitude that we need to go out and get world class straight away. All the world class players in the world started somewhere as a kid needing a chance. Who's to say McNair wont be our very own world class defender in a few years? But people want a world class defender here and now, further pushing him down the pecking order and limiting his chances. He did enough last year for me to have confidence in him as a more than capable squad player, and hopefully he can step up his game even more and push for a starting place in a few seasons time.

If we do get a defender in then we need to get rid of Evans. Dont keep him and push McNair down even further. Hes at the age where he needs to keep playing. Preferably in the first team. Keep building his confidence.

 

[razielioux]

For me guys, the question of the day (week) where would our 'Angel' end up? oO)

View attachment 242482

 

[sunilvk7]

Yes it was Chelsea. As much as I like McNair, when I saw the team sheet I feared the worst but he was by far one of the best players on the pitch. He reminded me of Rio at his best coming out with the ball with confidence. You could expect it in a league cup game against some league 2 side but away at a Chelsea team running away with the league? I really hope he gets more game time this year, at the expense of Evans.

Look what happened after the Southampton game. Most players that age would lose all confidence and never be the same again. He came back better. Obviously theres an odd mistake here and there but thats expected.

I remember a time when we embraced bringing through youngsters and giving them a chance. Now it seems most have the attitude that we need to go out and get world class straight away. All the world class players in the world started somewhere as a kid needing a chance. Who's to say McNair wont be our very own world class defender in a few years? But people want a world class defender here and now, further pushing him down the pecking order and limiting his chances. He did enough last year for me to have confidence in him as a more than capable squad player, and hopefully he can step up his game even more and push for a starting place in a few seasons time.

If we do get a defender in then we need to get rid of Evans. Dont keep him and push McNair down even further. Hes at the age where he needs to keep playing. Preferably in the first team. Keep building his confidence.

Agreed with most of that. Southampton game was a nightmare for him and IIRC something was changed before the game, maybe his position in 3 man midfield and he was the center. The way he bounced back after that was very impressive.

Like you said, there is no better feeling that watching kid from academy making it at the first team. This season I hope players like Wilson, Pereira, Januzaj, McNair gets enough games in the first team.

One of the reason why I'm loving how ruthless Van Gaal is with the first team. Players who were there for years and not performed are shown door, trimmed the squad and now he can give youngsters enough chances.

Evans had his chances and failed to cement his place, so hopefully he moves on and McNair gets his chances.

Saying that, you have to win first. Easy to integrate young players when you are winning. Even young players learn a lot from winning teams. I have lot of faith in the 4 players I mentioned and Pereira did a lot of good for his chances but cutting short his holidays and joining preseason after impressive U20 world cup, Januzaj and Shaw with impressive attitude of taking coach with them to work on fitness.

 

[steveorobbo]

Agreed with most of that. Southampton game was a nightmare for him and IIRC something was changed before the game, maybe his position in 3 man midfield and he was the center. The way he bounced back after that was very impressive.

Like you said, there is no better feeling that watching kid from academy making it at the first team. This season I hope players like Wilson, Pereira, Januzaj, McNair gets enough games in the first team.

One of the reason why I'm loving how ruthless Van Gaal is with the first team. Players who were there for years and not performed are shown door, trimmed the squad and now he can give youngsters enough chances.

Evans had his chances and failed to cement his place, so hopefully he moves on and McNair gets his chances.

Saying that, you have to win first. Easy to integrate young players when you are winning. Even young players learn a lot from winning teams. I have lot of faith in the 4 players I mentioned and Pereira did a lot of good for his chances but cutting short his holidays and joining preseason after impressive U20 world cup, Januzaj and Shaw with impressive attitude of taking coach with them to work on fitness.

I just feel like we dont give the youngsters a key enough role if you know what I mean. The class of 92 was an exception of course but can you ever see us giving youngsters a key role in the squad at a young age like we did back then? And I dont mean youngsters we have paid £20m for from another club. I mean our own. Often we started games with the Nevilles and a midfield of Beckham, Scholes, **** and Giggs. 6 players in a starting 11 consistently getting games. Key players of the squad even at no more than 20/21 years of age, because they got consistently got chances and not just 20 minutes here and there at 3-0 up.

I'll try and use an example. Please dont shoot me down haha. Lingard and Depay. At PSV Depay was trusted in his ability and potential and put into the first team. He has come on to being one of the best young players in the world. Dont get me wrong, im not saying Lingard is anywhere near Depay, but if we had just shown that bit of faith in him when he started to show promise, and put him into the first team, starting his fair share of games, who knows where he would be now.

And I know Us and PSV are on different levels, different leagues and so on, but if the ability is there why not do everything you can to bring that out. What is a 20 minute run out when 3-0 up going to do? There isnt that same pressure to perform to bring out the best in them. If you swapped them and put Lingard was at PSV and Depay here, 3 years ago, Im sure by now we would be talking about Lingard as a great talent, and Depay would have gone the way of Januzaj/Lingard. And we have let that happen to so many players over the years by not trusting them enough at that young age to start them in a key role and believe in that ability and potential. Pogba being the most obvious, but also Pique, Rossi, Januzaj to an extent. Theres a lot more.

Im hoping LVG sticks to his past methods and gives the likes of Pereira a decent amount of starts and key game time at this age. I feel Januzaj is at an age now here he needs to be starting games at a decent level consistently. A Premiership loan, at a team willing to play football would do him the world of good. I would have said Everton but with the signing of Delofeu who would be preffered, it might go against him. A loan to Stoke wouldnt be a bad idea for me. Im sure Odemwingie is being used on the right. Surely Januzaj would be a better fit for what Hughes is trying to achieve. Same for Lingard. A decent Premiership loan where he will be played consistently at this age.

We need to be giving the likes of Pearson, Goss and Pereira chances in the first team and have them training with the first team. Also Tuenzebe and Fosu-Mensah training with the first team to bring that potential out of them. With a view to stepping them up by next season. Gribbin is another. Have him in the Under 21's full time this season. See how he does with the view to him stepping up to first team training and cup ties next season. The amount of talent we have wasted over the years by not managing them properly is unbelievable.

 

[MANUMAD]

The delusion is strong in here this AM.

Lol!!!


Also, on the cb front - people have been saying that with our new additions, esp the two cms we will be better defensively this season as our defence will be better protected, and they are correct. However imho what they are forgetting is that we dont necessarily need a technically and defensively better cb than those we have but, rather, somebody with experience and a leader to keep the defence focussed.