The Manchester United Thread

[steveorobbo]

He'd get in the way of Wilson somewhat but it's really irrelevant because we're after a striker anyway. So no matter who it is it will get in the way of Wilson to a degree, rightly or wrongly.

I dont think we are after a striker though. I said that straight away when everyone automatically thought this 'surprise' meant he was buying a striker. But then he came out and confirmed he never actually said that at it was the media jumping to conclusions again. Ive always said we will promote from within. I dont think LVG has Wilson's place in question TBH. Its Hernandez's place he's concerned with. But if Hernandez does well and keeps him, I think he'll just use Fellaini when he needs a change of style like he did last year.

 

[sunilvk7]

For a player of Draxler's potential to pay only £17m is ****** great deal in this market. But the reason I want him is because at the moment there is no strikers out there we can buy who stand out, we could bring him in and develop him as a striker. In my eyes he has the ability to create something out of nothing - special player, all the attributes to be a striker if he is developed.

I always assumed Depay was going to play out wide, rather than as a striker, despite pre season. We need him more out wide, Young is the only option we have most likely.

Van Gaal always moans about balance so don't expect him to buy players and convert them into something they are not.

 

[zzeezzy]

Van Gaal always moans about balance so don't expect him to buy players and convert them into something they are not.

True, but I'd like to see us start thinking outside the box with young players, if they can be developed into another position we should do it.

If there isn't top strikers available why not make our own from someone who could be? We're interested in Muller who will cost around £75m and isn't exactly out and out striker in my eyes.

 

[zzeezzy]

I dont think we are after a striker though. I said that straight away when everyone automatically thought this 'surprise' meant he was buying a striker. But then he came out and confirmed he never actually said that at it was the media jumping to conclusions again. Ive always said we will promote from within. I dont think LVG has Wilson's place in question TBH. Its Hernandez's place he's concerned with. But if Hernandez does well and keeps him, I think he'll just use Fellaini when he needs a change of style like he did last year.

Idk man... Hernandez is a poacher but I don't think he has enough to his game to succeed at United. Maybe he can be good for us now we have all the creative quality behind him, he may not necessarily need to do much else other than get on the end of balls and bag us goals.

 

[Puddz]

True, but I'd like to see us start thinking outside the box with young players, if they can be developed into another position we should do it.

If there isn't top strikers available why not make our own from someone who could be? Muller for £75m and isn't exactly out and out striker in my eyes.

If its true LVG said he wants to convert Januzaj to striker, that's thinking outside the box with a young player.

 

[sunilvk7]

True, but I'd like to see us start thinking outside the box with young players, if they can be developed into another position we should do it.

If there isn't top strikers available why not make our own from someone who could be? Muller for £75m and isn't exactly out and out striker in my eyes.

I know what you are saying but we just can't sign every player and that too in a hope of changing his position and taking chances on his adaptability.

IMO we don't need striker as we have Rooney and Hernandez and worst case scenario is either Wilson or Depay playing.

We need a strong CB who can organize defense and we are good to go.

 

[Mike.]

I know what you are saying but we just can't sign every player and that too in a hope of changing his position and taking chances on his adaptability.

IMO we don't need striker as we have Rooney and Hernandez and worst case scenario is either Wilson or Depay playing.

We need a strong CB who can organize defense and we are good to go.

Or Pedro if Di Maria goes.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

£17m?????? For Draxler - One of Germany's brightest upcoming talents. Can play winger or striker.

Pedro £22-£25m - 28 years old by season start.

No brainer for me... we should go all out for Draxler at that price.

TBH Draxler has regressed last season. He is sort of like Januzaj atm. Pedro all day for me.

 

[steveorobbo]

True, but I'd like to see us start thinking outside the box with young players, if they can be developed into another position we should do it.

If there isn't top strikers available why not make our own from someone who could be? Muller for £75m and isn't exactly out and out striker in my eyes.

When I was saying about giving our youth a chance more instead of going out and buying it I was laughed at. I said why buy a kid who has actually had a chance in another team and "looks good", then giving them 10-15 games development time just because we have bought them, instead of giving one of our own that chance to look good? I used Keane and Jones as an example. Got laughed at.

But now its go and buy another kid (draxler) who has actually been given a chance in a team and looks decent, and play them and give them game time, instead of using one of our own and putting that time and effort into them and give them that chance and game time to develop and look good. This is the problem. Its one big cycle.

Lesser clubs have time to develop players, so they look good. Big club comes in and buys them pushing down further their own prospect that could have been just as good if not better, as the player brought in if they was only given that chance and game time instead. Then youth player leaves after 2 years of stalled development and loans, only for us to go 4 years down the line, "**** that kids pretty good, why did we let him go?"

 

[razielioux]

When I was saying about giving our youth a chance more instead of going out and buying it I was laughed at. I said why buy a kid who has actually had a chance in another team and "looks good", then giving them 10-15 games development time just because we have bought them, instead of giving one of our own that chance to look good? I used Keane and Jones as an example. Got laughed at.

But now its go and buy another kid (draxler) who has actually been given a chance in a team and looks decent, and play them and give them game time, instead of using one of our own and putting that time and effort into them and give them that chance and game time to develop and look good. This is the problem. Its one big cycle.

Lesser clubs have time to develop players, so they look good. Big club comes in and buys them pushing down further their own prospect that could have been just as good if not better, as the player brought in if they was only given that chance and game time instead. Then youth player leaves after 2 years of stalled development and loans, only for us to go 4 years down the line, "**** that kids pretty good, why did we let him go?"

Agreed, something similar happened to Pogba.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

Not everyone can switch positions and become world class player.

Also from what I remember he is not even pacey player. We have enough players who aren't quick. We need pace on the wings for sure.

He is defo not quick! Not pacey at all.

 

[sunilvk7]

Or Pedro if Di Maria goes.

And replacement for De Gea too

I meant with squad as it is, we need CB and we are good.

 

[steveorobbo]

Agreed, something similar happened to Pogba.

I dont mean to be overly criticle of the youth system. Its just how it appears to be going over the years in my eyes. Obviously not eveyrone will agree with that. Im just trying to highlight a change ive seen.

Pogba. We all knew was a great talent. For me he went because of a combination of his attitude and Fergies stubbornness. Pogba was obviously an exceptional talent, we knew this, fergie knew this and most importantly Pogba knew it himself. But while Pogba is working hard in the reserves being told he's good and keep your head down and your chance will come, Fergie is shoehorning every player he can think of to cover centre midfield during an injury crisis, players like Rafael in centre mid, who was no more than a kid himself, but had a bit more first team experience, rather than trust Pogba in his natural position and give him a game.

I think that was sometime over the Christmas period. Think it was against Blackburn actully. So Pogba started making noises about wanting to play, and rightly so. He got a few sub appearences and think he started against Leeds in the FA Cup when we lost and did pretty well. But Fergie doesnt like to be told does he. Seen his **** that Pogba dare challenge him, and lets him leave.

Now I honestly believe had it been the 90's, Pogba would have been thrown into the team when the injuries started, not stick Gary Neville in CM as a last option before him. But the way its gone over the years, kids at our club simply arent being trusted enough. Yes McNair and Blackett got games last season and im really happy they did. But as I keep saying, I put that firmly down to the injury crises and there was not one even remotely suitable first team player available. Carrick or Blind or both was being used if I remember correctly until one or both got injured. Then nobody left. We HAD to turn to McNair and Blackett. It is of my opinion that had Carrick/Blind, possibly even Fellaini been fit they would have been used first before those two. Agree or not, I really dont want to get into another debate about it. Thats just my personal opinion.

 

[zzeezzy]

When I was saying about giving our youth a chance more instead of going out and buying it I was laughed at. I said why buy a kid who has actually had a chance in another team and "looks good", then giving them 10-15 games development time just because we have bought them, instead of giving one of our own that chance to look good? I used Keane and Jones as an example. Got laughed at.

But now its go and buy another kid (draxler) who has actually been given a chance in a team and looks decent, and play them and give them game time, instead of using one of our own and putting that time and effort into them and give them that chance and game time to develop and look good. This is the problem. Its one big cycle.

Lesser clubs have time to develop players, so they look good. Big club comes in and buys them pushing down further their own prospect that could have been just as good if not better, as the player brought in if they was only given that chance and game time instead. Then youth player leaves after 2 years of stalled development and loans, only for us to go 4 years down the line, "**** that kids pretty good, why did we let him go?"

Perhaps you're right but we've got to have the quality of youth player to develop and work with in the first place if they are going to make it into the first team. I don't think a player like Will Keane was ever going to be good enough.

Like Reece James as well, he got a look in early last season/pre season and he just wasn't of the quality/potential to develop into the player we need in United's first team.

 

[zzeezzy]

He is defo not quick! Not pacey at all.

Pedro's no quicker than Draxler tbf, both not slouches but don't have blistering pace.

 

[steveorobbo]

Perhaps you're right but we've got to have the quality of youth player to develop and work with in the first place if they are going to make it into the first team. I don't think a player like Will Keane was ever going to be good enough.

Like Reece James as well, he got a look in early last season/pre season and he just wasn't of the quality/potential to develop into the player we need in United's first team.

Not Will. Michael. I Believe Michael Keane would have been on the fringes of breaking through when we signed Jones. Like I said, he was voted player of the year and got most of the votes. He was big and strong and there was somthing there. He looked like a natural leader to me. Instead of stepping him up and giving him games, we go and sign Jones that has been playing for Blackburn and looked a decent prospect. Then give him more than enough games. I believe if Keane would have been given even half of the game time and starts that Jones got at that age he'd be as good if not better. He even went on to have a decent England U-21 career. Again that just my opinion on what would have happened had he been given the chance instead of buying Jones. Not trying to start a debate on what IF's.

I agree I though Reece James did very well. Certainly could have been a decent squad player had he been given a proper chance in meaningful games and proper competitive game time. But again we went out and bought Shaw. Im not saying for one minute James is better than Shaw or ever will be, but Southampton gave Shaw a chance in proper games consistently and he took it and shown how good he was. Then we buy him, knocking James down the pecking order once more. Then we decided to use Ashley Young and whoever else even remotely could play there rather than give him game time. Obviously it didnt work out too bad with Young either, and took us by surprise but still. Again just my perception of how things went. Not starting a debate.

 

[Theatreof Dreams]

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[steveorobbo]

Just to try and put it into a bit of perspective. 1998. Manchester United, just about to embark on our greatest season ever by winning the trebble. We have a kid who has potential. Looks pretty good for his age. Could possibly do a job with a bit of development and game time. Step up Wes Brown. Just made his debut at the end of the previous season in a run-out. Goes on tour. We like what we see so we stick by him. Step him up to the squad in the 98-99 season. Give him a fair few run outs. We believe in his potential even in our best ever season and give him a chance. He goes on to make 362 for us. A very dependable solid squad player that we put time into developing.

Now imagine that same scenario in this day and age. In a time of instant results. Managers not getting time. Teams wanting world class players here and now, or kids that look good elsewhere because they have been given a chance. Would Wes Brown have got his chance? Or would we have gone out and bought Jonathan Woodgate for £10m and dropped him back to the reserves? Or any other young defender at that time who was playing elsewhere and considered a great prospect? Just something to think about.

 

[sunilvk7]

Just to try and put it into a bit of perspective. 1998. Manchester United, just about to embark on our greatest season ever by winning the trebble. We have a kid who has potential. Looks pretty good for his age. Could possibly do a job with a bit of development and game time. Step up Wes Brown. Just made his debut at the end of the previous season in a run-out. Goes on tour. We like what we see so we stick by him. Step him up to the squad in the 98-99 season. Give him a fair few run outs. We believe in his potential even in our best ever season and give him a chance. He goes on to make 362 for us. A very dependable solid squad player that we put time into developing.

Now imagine that same scenario in this day and age. In a time of instant results. Managers not getting time. Teams wanting world class players here and now, or kids that look good elsewhere because they have been given a chance. Would Wes Brown have got his chance? Or would we have gone out and bought Jonathan Woodgate for £10m and dropped him back to the reserves? Or any other young defender at that time who was playing elsewhere and considered a great prospect? Just something to think about.

Johnny Evans made 200 appearances for United. You can't discount any player making so many appearances as you can't predict future. For all we know, McNair might go on to make as many appearances.

 

[Mike.]

McNair got his chance, and LVG trusted him enough to use him at right back, and he's now with the first team. It will take time, but he will most.y likely come through. Reece james is probably only good enough to be a squad player, when we were looking for top class talent. No comparison to Wes Brown, who was always highly rated. It's the same with Andrés now, he's doing exactly that, lauded by LVG, now it's up to him to keep pushing. Breaking through at the top level is immensely hard because you want the best, not a squad play that you wouldn't use in the big games, bearing in mind this is a club built around the big game