The Manchester United Thread

Scouseinthehouse said:
With absolutely no cause to destroy that identity that had worked for United for the last 2 decades and more. A change of 'philosophy' as he put's it was the very last thing he needed to do.

To spend £300 million or whatever it is to get to this point where you're in little to no better situation than when he took over is staggering as you say that a change has not been made a GOOD whiles back.
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Exactly, you know I find it really alarming when a Liverpool fan sees more sense on a United subject than a United fan.

I'm not having a dig at Puddz's opinion but he surely must be seeing something else to what everyone else is.
 
Puddz said:
I'm the delusional fan for being logical? Believe me I hate the state the club is in right now, I just don't sprout **** like "OMG WOODWARD NEEDS TO GO HES THE MAIN REASON BEHIND THIS ALL HE CARES ABOUT IS MONEY BLAH BLAH BLAH". I know nothing of what goes on behind the scenes, nor how decisions are made or anything like that. Woodward could want to sack him but he's being out voted by the other members? I don't know. So I don't bother making judgements about people when I have zero facts.

I'm not saying Giggs can't do better. He might be the 2nd coming of Ferguson. We don't know. It's super risky. He could end up cocking our season up more than LVG and you'd be happy to take that risk?

Yeah it's going to be Jose. I would prefer Pep. But its going to be Jose, after a half year to calm the **** down from whatever was going on. Half a year to realize that his reputation of a great manager is on the brink if he ***** it up. I'm sure he's keenly aware that he needs to do well.

Lastly, Fans can say what they want. They normally do. The booing and the jeers from the fans at Old Trafford is getting the message across that the performances are unacceptable.

That last bit was directed at you and your constant need to say "WOODWARD SUCKS PLS KICK". It's like you constantly need to say that every week or something bad will happen.
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Well the point stands, he gets sponsorships left, right and centre yet him/Glazers, the board of relevance in this decision, can't act soon enough when it matters on the football.

Look, you've got to see this from a football perspective and Giggs couldn't of cocked up this season any more than LVG was in the process of doing. Everyone knew the way we were playing was going to get us nowhere so it was silly to stick with him with the dreadful run of form as well on top of that.

One thing that really annoys me about LVG and the fact you just know things wouldn't get any better is the fact that he thinks his methods are working. He really is as delusional as they come, or how it comes across in interviews but I truly believe he is. Either that or his arrogance is just blinding him, either way it is destroying us this season.

Like I say, the next 3 games will end our season with the wrong results, all over by end of March potentially, how sad will that literally be? Knowing we could of at least acted a few months earlier and freshened things up a bit, revitalise the players a bit, at least with Giggs he would of got the place excited again, in his brief spell at end of Moyes reign he shown he he wanted to utilise the United style. It definitely wasn't a snooze fest like this is, killing any creativity or any attacking intent we may have.
 
zzeezzy said:
Exactly, you know I find it really alarming when a Liverpool fan sees more sense on a United subject than a United fan.

I'm not having a dig at Puddz's opinion but he surely must be seeing something else to what everyone else is.
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Well that's because you're the most negative person I've seen and Scouse enjoys that with United, not hard to spot by which comments he likes.

I don't know if the Glazers are deliberately feckless, or just clueless. It's irrelevant really as things have to change. But the obvious question remains: who would have taken charge if LVG had gone in december?
 
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Mike. said:
Well that's because you're the most negative person I've seen and Scouse enjoys that with United, not hard to spot by which comments he likes......
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Cheeky.

Or any other comment I like or don't. As anyone else does. Say it as I see it. Utd has nottin' to do with that. zz just happen's to point out a lot on Utd that a lot of Utd fans aren't seemingly ready to accept.

For all his perceived negativity, there's not much positive with your club at the minute TBF.
 
Mike. said:
Well that's because you're the most negative person I've seen and Scouse enjoys that with United, not hard to spot by which comments he likes.

I don't know if the Glazers are deliberately feckless, or just clueless. It's irrelevant really as things have to change But the obvious question remains: who would have taken charge if LVG had gone in december?
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I don't get this post, on one hand you call me as negative as they come then on the next section of the post you then question everything I've been questioning in my last few posts.

But anyway, I would of took Giggs, Warren Joyce, Nicky **** even, **** Fred The Red might even have a better clue. They would of got us playing with some of the United traditions again and that can't be understated. When you start playing the right way again the fans get behind you, the whole confidence level and attitude lifts, it would make Old Trafford a different place. VIRTUALLY NO ONE CAN DO WORSE THAN THE FOOTBALL UNDER LVG SURELY WHO HAS SOME COACHING CREDIBILITY, ONE SHOT ON TARGET IN A GAME?

If the United fans can at least see you are trying to play the right way and you're not getting results, you will still get a lot of backing and it will take something really really bad for them to ever turn on you. But when you see a style LVG is playing and he isn't getting results, that's why fans lose any backing of him, who can blame them though.
 
zzeezzy said:
I don't get this post, on one hand you call me as negative as they come then on the next section of the post you then question everything I've been questioning in my last few posts.

But anyway, I would of took Giggs, Warren Joyce, Nicky **** even, **** Fred The Red might even have a better clue. They would of got us playing with some of the United traditions again and that can't be understated. When you start playing the right way again the fans get behind you, the whole confidence level and attitude lifts, it would make Old Trafford a different place.

If the United fans can at least see you are trying to play the right way and you're not getting results, you will still get a lot of backing and it will take something really really bad for them to ever turn on you. But when you see a style LVG is playing and he isn't getting results, that's why fans lose any backing of him, who can blame them though.
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Great they all understand tradition. But that doesn't actually translate into being a good manager, which is what Puddz is getting at. Understanding tradition doesn't mean you actually know how to get players playing the right way, otherwise every club legend would go on to be a great manager, and we know that isn't true.

So we still havent got an actual answer as to who would have replaced him and been in a position to realisitically do better?
 
Mike. said:
Great they all understand tradition. But that doesn't actually translate into being a good manager, which is what Puddz is getting at. Understanding tradition doesn't mean you actually know how to get players playing the right way, otherwise every club legend would go on to be a great manager, and we know that isn't true.

So we still havent got an actual answer as to who would have replaced him and been in a position to realisitically do better?
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Warren Joyce with the U21's, they play some good football and he would of been fine for interim until end of season

When I saw Giggs brief spell at end of Moyes tenure I seen more to be optimistic about than I have under LVG. One thing I'd say about LVG is he usually organises the defence well, but that has gone to pot as well.

I mean what the holy smokes was them changes he made all about last game, converting to a 3 man CB and putting Carrick as a CB, absolute clueless when you are trying to get a goal, he's trying to not concede another and it backfired spectacularly. The United way is to try and score, get on the front foot, at least them coaches I mentioned would understand this.
 
Mike. said:
Great they all understand tradition. But that doesn't actually translate into being a good manager, which is what Puddz is getting at. Understanding tradition doesn't mean you actually know how to get players playing the right way, otherwise every club legend would go on to be a great manager, and we know that isn't true.

So we still havent got an actual answer as to who would have replaced him and been in a position to realisitically do better?
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What about Steve Bruce *hides*
 
zzeezzy said:
Warren Joyce with the U21's, they play some good football and he would of been fine for interim until end of season

When I saw Giggs brief spell at end of Moyes tenure I seen more to be optimistic about than I have under LVG. One thing I'd say about LVG is he usually organises the defence well, but that has gone to pot as well.

I mean what the holy smokes was them changes he made all about last game, converting to a 3 man CB and putting Carrick as a CB, absolute clueless when you are trying to get a goal, he's trying to not concede another and it backfired spectacularly.
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Giggs had what, 4 games with no pressure? and that prepares him for a half a season?

Not even close.
 
Mike. said:
Giggs had what, 4 games with no pressure? and that prepares him for a half a season?

Not even close.
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Any interim would be a gamble, but at that point sticking with LVG was just as much of one, if not more.

What did we have to lose? The same what we are losing now, only difference is that we are doing it the way where we don't even try to score in a game it seems. I don't see any identity, or what we were even trying to do in games anymore.

But if we're honest we can make all the excuses we want, no top club would of tolerated this football under LVG as long as we have. It's just nonsense to stick with football like this, anyone can see we were going nowhere with it, apart from the board.
 
zzeezzy said:
Any interim would be a gamble, but at that point sticking with LVG was just as much of one, if not more.

What did we have to lose? The same what we are losing now, only difference is that we are doing it the way where we don't even try to score in a game it seems. I don't see any identity, or what we were even trying to do in games anymore.

But if we're honest we can make all the excuses we want, no top club would of tolerated this football under LVG as long as we have. It's just nonsense to stick with football like this, anyone can see we were going nowhere with it, apart from the board.
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You still need to replace them. This is kinda key. Sacking a manager is only half the issue.
 
That's the difference between your post and mind zzezzy to answer you earlier question. Because no matter what the emotional response is, you still need to be able to rationally answer those questions.
 
Mike. said:
That's the difference between your post and mind zzezzy to answer you earlier question. Because no matter what the emotional response is, you still need to be able to rationally answer those questions.
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So you're saying? You wouldn't of replaced LVG at any point this season? It's not really just an emotional response, it's more just something we had to do, there is evidence in some games the players aren't even giving 100%. Either that or they have a great way of showing they don't look bothered.
 
zzeezzy said:
So you're saying? You wouldn't of replaced LVG at any point this season? It's not really just an emotional response, it's more just something we had to do, there is evidence in some games the players aren't even giving 100%. Either that or they have a great way of showing they don't look bothered.
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Where exactly did I say that? I'd make sure I'd actually find someone who was capable of doing better than him.

Doing something for the sake of it isn't always the best thing
 
Mike. said:
Where exactly did I say that? I'd make sure I'd actually find someone who was capable of doing better than him.

Doing something for the sake of it isn't always the best thing
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I was just trying to understand what your point was, don't get me wrong I understand your point but in that situation, it was never going to be an ideal perfect manager to come in. Just hopeful than an interim would of lifted the place and got more out of the players, which I honestly think they would of done in comparison to what I've seen under LVG before and after.
 
zzeezzy said:
I was just trying to understand what your point was, don't get me wrong I understand your point but in that situation, it was never going to be an ideal perfect manager to come in. Just hopeful than an interim would of lifted the place and got more out of the players, which I honestly think they would of done in comparison to what I've seen under LVG before and after.
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But who is that interim. That's the point I'm making.
 
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