Legend Incredible
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The Manchester United Thread
- Thread starter MisterStubbs
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If, after all the mess, we end up signing Douglas Costa, even on a short term loan, I'll be ****** furious.
I appreciate the fact that Woodward keeps finding new ways to **** up, but that would be taking the cake. (I'm not even gonna check who Rodon, don't want more dread around this).
I appreciate the fact that Woodward keeps finding new ways to **** up, but that would be taking the cake. (I'm not even gonna check who Rodon, don't want more dread around this).
Theatre of Dreams83
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Na no chance we are after Costa. Goes against absolutely everything Ole wants from a transfer/player.
Theatre of Dreams83
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Class from Lukaku tbf. Least someone can see the potential in this team....
Legend Incredible
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You need someone to harnest this potential otherwise it doesn't mean anything
Theatre of Dreams83
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Ole has done that and some this season. Fans and oppo fans alike would of laughed in your face if you even suggested top 3 and 3 semi finals this season before it started. Heck some on here we’re doing just that.
Same thing with the squad Mou had when he got second place. Was suprised by your reaction as a fan to dismiss backing for him.
In the end I think new season will be Oles place to stay or leave. If we will have uninterupted season we will finally see what he and the team is capable.
No one is really questioning Ole anyway (apart from his subs which again you can argue he has nothing on the bench)...... rather we're questioning the United's hierarchy to fully back a manager in another transfer window. Or let us stagnate again whilst other teams improve, seen it all before, this transfer window basically entirely depends on how we'll continue to progress or not.
In some ways it may be a blessing not to get Sancho because it's clear the more I see this team that we need to address other more important areas. Woodward probably wants that signing more than anything due to the star name as we've seen in the past.He would be a good signing, but neglects other parts of the team and we'd probably only sign him and no one else... if it happened.
In some ways it may be a blessing not to get Sancho because it's clear the more I see this team that we need to address other more important areas. Woodward probably wants that signing more than anything due to the star name as we've seen in the past.He would be a good signing, but neglects other parts of the team and we'd probably only sign him and no one else... if it happened.
Theatre of Dreams83
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We didn’t want him getting an extension or backing. Well I can’t speak for others I guess. But it was all turgid from his pressers, outing of players, ***** football etc. I was happy he came in and won us a few trophies but never wanted him long term. And things were only going one way after his successful first season.
Theatre of Dreams83
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No doubt the club have to back him which tbf they have since his appointment. To not do so would be an absolute nightmare not on the field but the backlash from fans would be worse than seen before. If Ole wants Sancho then the club need to go and back him and get his targets like last summer that’s the only reason we will get him not anything to do with Ed.
At this moment, with our depth and the trust in them, we will get slaughtered at the end of the season. The players will be tired, not to mention the lapses in concentration. Need quality depth in AM/CB and a RW for sure. Also, maybe an almost starter LB, one who can actually attack on the left.
Mind you, I like Williams, but it often is a recipe for disaster if both your fullback and Winger like to do the same thing (in this case, cut in on their favoured right foot). You need someone who can go ahead on the left, and provide more space for the team to work on.
Woodward needs to get his priorities right. If you're still in the hunt for Sancho, go all in and get him. If not, move onto other targets (preferably better than Costa). But there are a lot of areas that need addressing on the pitch, and seemingly very little being done. I'd be more confident if Woodward can wrap up deals quickly (or announce players, having worked on them in secret), but neither of those are likely. Hence, the worry.
Mind you, I like Williams, but it often is a recipe for disaster if both your fullback and Winger like to do the same thing (in this case, cut in on their favoured right foot). You need someone who can go ahead on the left, and provide more space for the team to work on.
Woodward needs to get his priorities right. If you're still in the hunt for Sancho, go all in and get him. If not, move onto other targets (preferably better than Costa). But there are a lot of areas that need addressing on the pitch, and seemingly very little being done. I'd be more confident if Woodward can wrap up deals quickly (or announce players, having worked on them in secret), but neither of those are likely. Hence, the worry.
Scouseinthehouse
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Theatre of Dreams83
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Don’t think LB is priority. Shaw has been good this season and has improved attacking wise as it’s gone on and his fitness has improved. Him and Rashford have a very good relationship on that side and it’s no coincidence that as well as his injury, since Shaw has been injured Rashford has struggled.
Williams has had a good first season won us some vital penalties with his driving runs forward. Yes he’s rash at times but that’s due to inexperience at this level.On a whole he’s been pretty good defensively and will only get better. Needs to use his left foot more which having witnessed at youth levels it actually pretty good.
Williams has had a good first season won us some vital penalties with his driving runs forward. Yes he’s rash at times but that’s due to inexperience at this level.On a whole he’s been pretty good defensively and will only get better. Needs to use his left foot more which having witnessed at youth levels it actually pretty good.
Ole finished 3rd after his first real transfer window ( remember, he wanted Bruno in the Summer, but it wasn't to be for we all know what reason), with an extremely thin team, missing their best player for 2/3 of the season with 2 new defenders who never played with the rest of defenders together and one of the best players in the league till he got injured, well, got terrible injury. He finished ahead of Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham who all have "more depth" and "better coach" and behind City and Liverpool who all have better players with amazing depth.
And he managed to get to 3 semi-finals playing total 61 games ( Liverpool played 57 games this season and City played 60 games for reference - please correct me if I'm mistaken) with Pogba playing only 22 games.
Give Ole some credit ffs.
Issue is - Shaw gets injured. Thats a fact now unfortunately. You know its going to happen, simple as. Willams is going to be better on the right side, he simply doesn't offer enough going forward as a left back. It's not priority, but it should be high on the list if the right target is available.
Theatre of Dreams83
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Apart from this last injury don’t think Shaw has any other time this season ( could be wrong maybe 1 ). Williams will never get a sniff on the right unfortunately. Just to many better players on that side. Maybe a position to address next summer see how Williams pushes on. If Shaw can have a good season again. And if Devine pushes on who is more talented and a natural left footed. Was superb in the academy the last 2 years and in the u23s promotion push last. Only a yr younger than Williams. Plus we have just signed 3 more FBs for the academy for this season coming.
Shaw played 33 games this season. Last season he played 40 games and it was his most consistent season with Manchester United. Season before I don't think he even played 30 games, due to injury reasons and Mourinho not trusting him. It's a fair thing to raise question marks about his fitness.
Theatre of Dreams83
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Good post *not mine btw!*
I've read this from quite a few posters here ... people say they cannot see any system and everything comes down to individual brilliance, basically there’s no tactics coached.
But I think there clearly is, the difficulty is that because of injuries to key players, Ole has had to adapt his ideas throughout the season, though I would suggest that this shows even more tactical nous from him.
At the beginning of the season Ole wanted to build around Pogba in the 4-2-3-1 formation that he used in Norway and obviously favours. The team would press high and play with a high defence stealing the ball back early and playing quick forward passes from between the lines onto runners like Martial, James, Lingard and Rashford. The key to this was the other midfielder (McT, Matic or Fred) dropping back in between the CBs allowing the FBs to push forward either into midfield to protect against a counter or into attack to become another option for the pass forward, so effectively 4-2-3-1 would switch to 3-2-5 in attack. Pogba was key to this as he was the creative force meant to be spraying the ball about the pitch, but Pogba got injured and there was no one else in the squad to fill that role.
So he had to adapt to working with a much more utilitarian midfield. Liverpool do this by using their full backs as the creative force, but AWB wasn’t bought for this and though Shaw is capable it’s not his strongest suit either. But Ole didn’t have a huge amount of choice as the need for creativity moved out of central midfield and onto the wings, more often than not the left side with Shaw and Rashford. It still involved midfielders dropping into defence, but this now it meant a holding midfielder (often Fred) dropping into cover either LB or RB depending on who was pushing forward. With Martial, Shaw and Rashford all out at different times as well this became increasingly difficult. We all know how that worked out. Though he certainly had some successes, Tottenham and City stand out, but so do Newcastle and Norwich.
Finally with the purchase of Bruno, Ole got what he’d been missing with Pogba out, a playmaker to operate between the lines. So once again he could switch the creativity back to midfield, push Rashford and James/Greenwood out wide with Martial running through the centre. The other midfielder could drop back to create a back 3 and the wingbacks could either tuck in to protect midfield or push up to support the attack. Yes Bruno played in a more advanced position than Ole had planned for Pogba, but the idea pretty much remained the same with the idea of 4-2-3-1 switching to 3-2-5 in attack again.
These ideas aren't completely original, Ole has borrowed a bit from Klopp and Pep (who obviously play quite differently anyway) as well as others. He’s been forced to adapt throughout the season and you could argue that his tactics didn’t really finally click until that fecking Brighton game when you hammered us after lockdown (it was that game that got me thinking and reading about this)
He has also made mistakes as he and his coaches are quite inexperienced at this level, though I don’t mean he can not succeed and clearly the players don't think that either as they seem totally bought into his ideas. So to say there is no system is wrong in my mind, there has been at least three clear systems throughout the season (that's not counting the odd time he's started with 3 at the back or 4-4-2, which is another post all by itself!) as he’s adapted to the players available. Now whether you think the tactics are good enough or not is another discussion enitirely!
Interesting analysis written by cleverer people than me here.
Ole having to adapt - https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...t-ole-gunnar-solskjaer-learned-from-liverpool
Bruno makes the difference - https://totalfootballanalysis.com/p...-manchester-united-sporting-tactical-analysis
Ole’s tactics finally click against Brighton https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...s-shades-of-guardiola-as-ole-ball-takes-shape
4-2-3-1 converting to 3-2-5 in attack https://www.sports-nova.com/2020/06...unnar-solskjaer-rejuvenate-manchester-united/
tl:dr – Ole actually does have a clear system, but it has changed through the season to adapt to injuries. Saying there is no system is wrong!
I've read this from quite a few posters here ... people say they cannot see any system and everything comes down to individual brilliance, basically there’s no tactics coached.
But I think there clearly is, the difficulty is that because of injuries to key players, Ole has had to adapt his ideas throughout the season, though I would suggest that this shows even more tactical nous from him.
At the beginning of the season Ole wanted to build around Pogba in the 4-2-3-1 formation that he used in Norway and obviously favours. The team would press high and play with a high defence stealing the ball back early and playing quick forward passes from between the lines onto runners like Martial, James, Lingard and Rashford. The key to this was the other midfielder (McT, Matic or Fred) dropping back in between the CBs allowing the FBs to push forward either into midfield to protect against a counter or into attack to become another option for the pass forward, so effectively 4-2-3-1 would switch to 3-2-5 in attack. Pogba was key to this as he was the creative force meant to be spraying the ball about the pitch, but Pogba got injured and there was no one else in the squad to fill that role.
So he had to adapt to working with a much more utilitarian midfield. Liverpool do this by using their full backs as the creative force, but AWB wasn’t bought for this and though Shaw is capable it’s not his strongest suit either. But Ole didn’t have a huge amount of choice as the need for creativity moved out of central midfield and onto the wings, more often than not the left side with Shaw and Rashford. It still involved midfielders dropping into defence, but this now it meant a holding midfielder (often Fred) dropping into cover either LB or RB depending on who was pushing forward. With Martial, Shaw and Rashford all out at different times as well this became increasingly difficult. We all know how that worked out. Though he certainly had some successes, Tottenham and City stand out, but so do Newcastle and Norwich.
Finally with the purchase of Bruno, Ole got what he’d been missing with Pogba out, a playmaker to operate between the lines. So once again he could switch the creativity back to midfield, push Rashford and James/Greenwood out wide with Martial running through the centre. The other midfielder could drop back to create a back 3 and the wingbacks could either tuck in to protect midfield or push up to support the attack. Yes Bruno played in a more advanced position than Ole had planned for Pogba, but the idea pretty much remained the same with the idea of 4-2-3-1 switching to 3-2-5 in attack again.
These ideas aren't completely original, Ole has borrowed a bit from Klopp and Pep (who obviously play quite differently anyway) as well as others. He’s been forced to adapt throughout the season and you could argue that his tactics didn’t really finally click until that fecking Brighton game when you hammered us after lockdown (it was that game that got me thinking and reading about this)
He has also made mistakes as he and his coaches are quite inexperienced at this level, though I don’t mean he can not succeed and clearly the players don't think that either as they seem totally bought into his ideas. So to say there is no system is wrong in my mind, there has been at least three clear systems throughout the season (that's not counting the odd time he's started with 3 at the back or 4-4-2, which is another post all by itself!) as he’s adapted to the players available. Now whether you think the tactics are good enough or not is another discussion enitirely!
Interesting analysis written by cleverer people than me here.
Ole having to adapt - https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...t-ole-gunnar-solskjaer-learned-from-liverpool
Bruno makes the difference - https://totalfootballanalysis.com/p...-manchester-united-sporting-tactical-analysis
Ole’s tactics finally click against Brighton https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...s-shades-of-guardiola-as-ole-ball-takes-shape
4-2-3-1 converting to 3-2-5 in attack https://www.sports-nova.com/2020/06...unnar-solskjaer-rejuvenate-manchester-united/
tl:dr – Ole actually does have a clear system, but it has changed through the season to adapt to injuries. Saying there is no system is wrong!
Theatre of Dreams83
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Jeez I honestly thought he played more this season. Still don’t think it’s a top 3 priority this summer. But depending on what happens next then maybe time to start looking for sure.