The Manchester United Thread

Oh and let’s all hold off on the Everton love in. Let’s see if it can last a sustained period instead of just a few games. Do they deserve praise. Absolutely atm.
 
Yeah, I was more worried about tactics rather than transfers as I mentioned earlier. From all reports, OGS trains more like Mourinho than any other manager - practices on defensive movement, whereas depends on his attackers to do things rather than having a set plan/transitions for various situations. And honestly, I still don't know if Ole is a LT manager here, I still have my doubts - our attacking strategy seems shockingly one-sided. I still fear he is a transition manager until someone else comes in (whether anyone even wants to come in to let Woodward handle transfers is a whole different question).

But dear god, the board is not making it easy to forget about transfers. Cavani is around what - 200k $ per week? That's pretty high wages to pay someone who is in their final season, will sit on the bench and likely not contribute all that much. Atleast Chelsea fans can say Silva brings some leadership to their team, and he is starting matches. Cavani will not (and should not) start matches for us, and by that, makes it a very ****** deal where we are paying insane wages to someone sitting on the bench.

Pray how it is it not breaking the wage structure here? Wage Structure doesn't just involve the highest amount paid, it involves wages at different levels. Cavani, to sit on the bench (similar to Ighalo), will be earning ridiculous amounts (if the mentioned wages are true) - we will next have squad/back-up players demanding like wages. Wage ceilings are at different levels, and Cavani, for a backup striker, is definitely breaking them.

I mean honestly, our targets initially were decent - Sancho, Upamecano/Badiashile, Telles/Reguilon. But dear god - to have no back-ups - or back-ups of this quality is utterly atrocious. And yes, Dortmund had a price from the beginning - either ******* pay them or move one and get someone else in. I mean, look at City/Pool - Koulibaly became a problem, and they went out and got a quality 2nd back-up in Dias (after failing with Kounde). Sarr's fee was deemed too high, so Pool went and got in Jota. Same with Tsimikas. We will never be able to become swift (or even competent) in the market under Woodward. Sigh.
 
Sherkey said:
Yeah, I was more worried about tactics rather than transfers as I mentioned earlier. From all reports, OGS trains more like Mourinho than any other manager - practices on defensive movement, whereas depends on his attackers to do things rather than having a set plan/transitions for various situations. And honestly, I still don't know if Ole is a LT manager here, I still have my doubts - our attacking strategy seems shockingly one-sided. I still fear he is a transition manager until someone else comes in (whether anyone even wants to come in to let Woodward handle transfers is a whole different question).

But dear god, the board is not making it easy to forget about transfers. Cavani is around what - 200k $ per week? That's pretty high wages to pay someone who is in their final season, will sit on the bench and likely not contribute all that much. Atleast Chelsea fans can say Silva brings some leadership to their team, and he is starting matches. Cavani will not (and should not) start matches for us, and by that, makes it a very ****** deal where we are paying insane wages to someone sitting on the bench.

Pray how it is it not breaking the wage structure here? Wage Structure doesn't just involve the highest amount paid, it involves wages at different levels. Cavani, to sit on the bench (similar to Ighalo), will be earning ridiculous amounts (if the mentioned wages are true) - we will next have squad/back-up players demanding like wages. Wage ceilings are at different levels, and Cavani, for a backup striker, is definitely breaking them.

I mean honestly, our targets initially were decent - Sancho, Upamecano/Badiashile, Telles/Reguilon. But dear god - to have no back-ups - or back-ups of this quality is utterly atrocious. And yes, Dortmund had a price from the beginning - either ******* pay them or move one and get someone else in. I mean, look at City/Pool - Koulibaly became a problem, and they went out and got a quality 2nd back-up in Dias (after failing with Kounde). Sarr's fee was deemed too high, so Pool went and got in Jota. Same with Tsimikas. We will never be able to become swift (or even competent) in the market under Woodward. Sigh.
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Jota is going to end up costing more than Sarr. And from the Benfica fan I live with Dias is anything but a quality defender just good on the ball and good in the air. Yeah we will continue to be a **** show with Woodward and even more so Judge being chief negotiator. They gotta pull a FB and RW out the hat for sure these next 2 days only them I will judge the window as a whole.
 
Remember lots of fans saying Zlatan and Sheringham back in the day would come in and not contribute much being in there mid 30s on big wages. Only time will tell if Cavani will or not.
 
A bit on Pallistri from a Uruguayan journo on his potential move to Utd:


Primarily a right-winger, but capable of playing on either flank, Pellistri possesses a devastating turn of pace and is extremely quick across the ground both with and without the ball. Combined with his excellent ball control, agility and skillful footwork, this potent mix makes Pellistri an accomplished dribbler. Pellistri has averaged 9.56 dribbles per 90 this season with an impressive 60.87% success rate.

Unsurprisingly Pellistri also ranks third in the Uruguayan Primera for progressive runs (3.95 per 90). His wing wizardry also means he puts in a solid 3.33 crosses per 90 and draws plenty of fouls in dangerous areas.

Away from the eye-catching attacking qualities, Pellistri also has all the defensive work-rate that has become par for the course when it comes to Uruguayan players. From pressing opponents high up the field, where he typically averages 1.25 recoveries in the final third and 2.29 counter-pressing recoveries per 90, to using his stamina and determination to track back and help out his full-back, Pellistri doesn’t shirk his defensive responsibilities.

Also read he has the same agent as Cavani and will travel in together today to complete both deals.
 
Theatre of Dreams83 said:
Jota is going to end up costing more than Sarr. And from the Benfica fan I live with Dias is anything but a quality defender just good on the ball and good in the air. Yeah we will continue to be a **** show with Woodward and even more so Judge being chief negotiator. They gotta pull a FB and RW out the hat for sure these next 2 days only them I will judge the window as a whole.
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You're still missing the point. It is about getting business done quickly, and moving on having some quality back-ups if the first choice doesn't work out.

Jota may cost more overall (5 Mn more), but Pool's motivation was to get a very small payout this year, and that happened with a small up-front fee. (that, and Ki Jana Hoever going the other way). Dias is a good communicator in the back-line, something they have missed since Kompany. Also, for a third choice CB, he is excellent for City - he is a huge upgrade over Otamendi. We don't even have that.

Also, regarding training, if the issue against James is his movement and link play, why hasn't that been slowly coached into him from last year? Do you want to take bets, if he had ended up under Bielsa (as originally planned), he would be a much more rounded player now? A worry is also the fact that we cannot coach players properly or have them improve more under us. All the top coaches do that, add different facets to player's game - here, I don't see too much evidence of that.

And, regarding Zlatan and Sheringham, Zlatan was a different beast, and he would still be effective, even today on most teams. He cannot be used as a barometer. For Sheringham, he was brought in as first choice, to add a new dimension of link-up play from a striker. Cavani is neither, and honestly, the only similarity you can make is the age.
 
Also, there is this piece on the Athletic covering why United's profit cannot fall below 65 Mn.

theathletic.com

Explained: Why Manchester United’s profit must not drop below £65m

United have a profit target to hit to ward off action from lenders but insist this arrangement has no bearing on transfer activity
theathletic.com theathletic.com

More so than ever, explains the crappy way in which we were acquired. How the **** did the PL sanction this even?
 
Sherkey said:
You're still missing the point. It is about getting business done quickly, and moving on having some quality back-ups if the first choice doesn't work out.

Jota may cost more overall (5 Mn more), but Pool's motivation was to get a very small payout this year, and that happened with a small up-front fee. (that, and Ki Jana Hoever going the other way). Dias is a good communicator in the back-line, something they have missed since Kompany. Also, for a third choice CB, he is excellent for City - he is a huge upgrade over Otamendi. We don't even have that.

Also, regarding training, if the issue against James is his movement and link play, why hasn't that been slowly coached into him from last year? Do you want to take bets, if he had ended up under Bielsa (as originally planned), he would be a much more rounded player now? A worry is also the fact that we cannot coach players properly or have them improve more under us. All the top coaches do that, add different facets to player's game - here, I don't see too much evidence of that.

And, regarding Zlatan and Sheringham, Zlatan was a different beast, and he would still be effective, even today on most teams. He cannot be used as a barometer. For Sheringham, he was brought in as first choice, to add a new dimension of link-up play from a striker. Cavani is neither, and honestly, the only similarity you can make is the age.
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Wasn’t missing your point at all mate I totally agree with you. Other clubs are miles ahead of us in terms of how they do business. Doesn’t mean the players we bring in are bad or will be bad. Just a circus of how it goes on every summer.

Time will only tell if Ole is the right man. So far he’s doing a good job in terms of taking us in the right direction after his first season here. Now he needs to go and build on that in terms of results and improving our play.

Think Cavani link up play has come on a lot since leaving Napoli tbh. And he’s not a typical box poacher like some suggest he very often runs the channels, has even started out wide a fair bit. Least we might see some headed goals this season ? and it’s not the only similarity with Sheringham because I remember a lot of Utd fans complaining about his wage for the age he was.
 
Sherkey said:
Also, there is this piece on the Athletic covering why United's profit cannot fall below 65 Mn.

theathletic.com

Explained: Why Manchester United’s profit must not drop below £65m

United have a profit target to hit to ward off action from lenders but insist this arrangement has no bearing on transfer activity
theathletic.com theathletic.com

More so than ever, explains the crappy way in which we were acquired. How the **** did the PL sanction this even?
Click to expand...


The author of the original Medium story this article is based on has since deleted the story by the way as he got most of his info wrong.

Also EBITDA so nothing to do with transfers at all.

I'm sure it's possible EBITDA goes to that level but banks wouldn't fear for their loans I don't think so no real impact

Nuts when football journalists try to read into financial stuff like this
 
I’m the first to be critical and United’s transfer window has been a shambles. But people moaning about this Cavani deal are the same ones that would have been moaning when Martial got injured or Ighalo left in January and we had no depth for striker.

This deal makes sense for multiple reasons: -

1) it’s better to have someone like Cavani now for a year or two with his experience and sign the RIGHT striker when they are available in a year or two. Who was available this window on a permanent deal? Josh King... no thanks. At least we have possibility to get someone better like Haaland release clause In couple of years.

2) Cavani will bring leadership qualities this squad so badly lacks apart from Bruno.

3) We might actually be able to scored a headed goal this season, Cavani offers what Martial lacks. As much as we praise Martial, he isn’t the finished article and still can’t be relied upon for a full season yet.

—-

Fans have every right to be critical but they don’t offer solutions, this window there wasn’t a better one for striker. The way it has been conducted leaves a lot to be desired but i still think it’s the best we can do for in this position at the moment. We only neeed a backup really and it’s a lot better than Ighalo.

Cavani has something like 30 goals an 15 assists in his last 50 games, he’s not exactly washed up, whether you rate the French league or not. A lot of clubs go to it for players now.
 
Theatre of Dreams83 said:
Come on mate stop talking nonsense now. Phil Jones is on about 70k a week as is Romero so we we don’t have 3gks on 100k so don’t go over board trying force a point. And Shaws on 130k a week which for a starting LB at one of the biggest clubs and and England international it’s hardly an absolute fortune. Come on mate your better than that on here.

We don’t know what deal Cavani will cost. His agent wanted 10m euros and we have given him less. And most reliable people round Utd are saying Cavani will be on around 175k pw or less. Yet some people want to make up figures to make them feel better about not wanting the player, or saying we have a back up str on more than our first choice str which is completely rubbish when Martial is on 250k pw even Rashford is on 200k pw so more than Cavani.

Was he Ole first choice STR option to be back up to Martial NO. Was he one of Ole option to be a short term stop gap to give us cover in Jan when Ighalo leaves YES if you wanna believe Utds closest journos.

He wouldn’t of been my choice far from it but if his wages are to be believed then I can see it for what it is. Now it’s done it’s up to him to deliver when he plays and get the backing of the fans.
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I was being hyperbolic with the GK wages but the point still stands. You have three keepers on first team wages with one being the highest paid in the world and the second choice being on over 100k. I don't care how you spin that no top club would sanction such a amateur move. How you got two first choice goalkeepers at the club vying for one position, a position were you want to have confidence in putting faith in your number one. Whether thats De gea or Henderson.

I won't get into why you are paying Rashford and Martial those obscene wages. I didn't even know your wage structure was that bad but good for them in rinsing the amateur management you have going on. Also 175k or whatever for Cavani who was being laughed out of every club across Europe for his demands and only utd were stupid enough to panic buy someone who hasn't played since feb or so. Is never a good deal. Nearly 200k a week for a stop gap or backup player. That **** would never fly elsewhere and is a predicament of the **** poor planning above the coaching stuff.

Edit: isn't luke shaw being replaced by Telles or whatever?

Edit: Cavani injury record over the last two season makes for some telling numbers with a multitude of hamstring injuries... Can the back even stay fit.
 
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A lot of L’pool fans used to try justify mad **** whilst Utd fans more than anyone rightly laughed there collective behinds off and mocked them. I think it was a coping tool to not have to admit the same, repeated mistakes dragging the club further and further down.

The similarities are eerie.
 
Don’t quite see your argument dilakh, most top European clubs have two strikers on fighting for one spot. Cavani will get plenty of games this season and his role in the squad is one of leadership/experience.

175k wages (If they are, might be lower going off some reports) are fine for a player of his reputation, Atletico Madrid got Suarez who was never an option obviously.

When we signed Falcao that was truly breaking the wage structure as he was on like £250-300k.
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
A lot of L’pool fans used to try justify mad **** whilst Utd fans more than anyone rightly laughed there collective behinds off and mocked them. I think it was a coping tool to not have to admit the same, repeated mistakes dragging the club further and further down.

The similarities are eerie.
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Hardly a coping tool when even me or Zz who are not totally against it can see that it’s got some potential to go wrong. The only difference is we can also see it for what it is.
 
zzeezzy said:
Don’t quite see your argument dilakh, most top European clubs have two strikers on fighting for one spot. Cavani will get plenty of games this season and his role in the squad is one of leadership/experience.

175k wages (If they are, might be lower going off some reports) are fine for a player of his reputation, Atletico Madrid got Suarez who was never an option obviously.

When we signed Falcao that was truly breaking the wage structure as he was on like £250-300k.
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Cool if that's the way you see it thats fine. My opinion is that those wages are reserved for someone coming in being first choice key player. Not a stop gap rotation option who struggles with injury issues. He was laughed out of most of Europe for his wage demands but United I guess see different in paying him a significant signing on fee and his "halved" wage demands.
 
dilakh2 said:
I was being hyperbolic with the GK wages but the point still stands. You have three keepers on first team wages with one being the highest paid in the world and the second choice being on over 100k. I don't care how you spin that no top club would sanction such a amateur move. How you got two first choice goalkeepers at the club vying for one position, a position were you want to have confidence in putting faith in your number one. Whether thats De gea or Henderson.

I won't get into why you are paying Rashford and Martial those obscene wages. I didn't even know your wage structure was that bad but good for them in rinsing the amateur management you have going on. Also 175k or whatever for Cavani who was being laughed out of every club across Europe for his demands and only utd were stupid enough to panic buy someone who hasn't played since feb or so. Is never a good deal. Nearly 200k a week for a stop gap or backup player. That **** would never fly elsewhere and is a predicament of the **** poor planning above the coaching stuff.

Edit: isn't luke shaw being replaced by Telles or whatever?

Edit: Cavani injury record over the last two season makes for some telling numbers with a multitude of hamstring injuries... Can the back even stay fit.
Click to expand...
No Telles is being brought in to rotate with Shaw and add much needed quality as Ole is moving Williams to RB to replace Dalot and TFM who are likely leaving today/tomorrow.
 
dilakh2 said:
I was being hyperbolic with the GK wages but the point still stands. You have three keepers on first team wages with one being the highest paid in the world and the second choice being on over 100k. I don't care how you spin that no top club would sanction such a amateur move. How you got two first choice goalkeepers at the club vying for one position, a position were you want to have confidence in putting faith in your number one. Whether thats De gea or Henderson.

I won't get into why you are paying Rashford and Martial those obscene wages. I didn't even know your wage structure was that bad but good for them in rinsing the amateur management you have going on. Also 175k or whatever for Cavani who was being laughed out of every club across Europe for his demands and only utd were stupid enough to panic buy someone who hasn't played since feb or so. Is never a good deal. Nearly 200k a week for a stop gap or backup player. That **** would never fly elsewhere and is a predicament of the **** poor planning above the coaching stuff.

Edit: isn't luke shaw being replaced by Telles or whatever?

Edit: Cavani injury record over the last two season makes for some telling numbers with a multitude of hamstring injuries... Can the back even stay fit.
Click to expand...

That was a byproduct of Sanchez.
 
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