The Manchester United Thread

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Legend Incredible said:
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The second one he should have done better also. Was a good block but still should of done better.

Also what was Rashford doing when played through early in the first half. All he had to do was drive towards goal and shoot it was a CC chance. Why take it away from goal! Then ultimately loses the ball being weak and costs us a goal on the counter seconds later. Wasted to many great chances. There was numerous others.

Lol at all this talk about Ole getting the chop yet! ??
 
Topical, if you’ll forgive a L’pool podcast-

I found this a very interesting and very educational discussion, mainly from a real articulate, knowledgeable half-caste lad living in Barcelona, on just how inherently wrong both Cavani and Suarez were in different ways and just how massively wrong United, like Liverpool 7 years ago, have got this in standing by their player.

Superb commentary that’s educational to our base ignorance of other cultures. Of which I openly admit I was wrong with defending Suarez over it being an acceptable term in Latino society. It patently isn’t when you listen to someone of colour and just how offensive the word is to them. However it’s used, it’s derogatory and completely unacceptable.

Pertinent and hard hitting 13/14 minutes discussion that certainly enlightened me as to some of my cultural ignorance.

From 36 mins in. NSFW-

 
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‘Sake.

If yers all are honestly getting a club vs club thing there then the lad (who couldn’t have made his disgust for Suarez and L’’pool’s non-actions MORE clear), didn’t culturally educate on unacceptable racism enough.
 
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I think it is being blown out of proportion. I really see what you mean Scous as racism should have no place in our life. But still it wont change the fact that Suarez said things ON THE PITCH with emotions that can be really taken as racist word. Cavani words where in different meaning and to friend. How can you compare these things. Context matters so much here. We cant have a world where we have discrimination of cultures and how people act in between friends. Yeah there are lines but nothing was crossed here.

He took it down, apoligezed and lets move on. I mean my reddit picture few post back has a point. If we are so weak as society then we really should ban lot of words and names.

There are so much more things that can be done against fight for racism, but this feels just uhh we can hit them with this and look like good guys. Player racism, abuse and depression issues run much deeper that this stupid instagram post.
Do actions that have meaning.
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I am not out here defending United, would roast them at any oportunity :sneaky: Think everyone here are with you against racism, there should be no doubt in that.
 
Mate, if you’re seeing ANY context of that word being used when a coloured fella’ has explained how inherently offensive it is, then you’re both missing the entire point and being wilfully ignorant.

There is NO context. It’s highly derogatory and offensive PERIOD!
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Mate, if you’re seeing ANY context of that word being used when a coloured fella’ has explained how inherently offensive it is, then you’re both missing the entire point and being wilfully ignorant.

There is NO context. It’s highly derogatory and offensive PERIOD!
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Why does that fellas opinion is bigger in grand scheme of things? Have had enough these kind of talks with people who are from Africa and who have opposit opinion on words and how they are used. Learned history in university and have come past this topic more than once. Yes these words can be very bad in some part of the world and people are much more vocal about these things. But here we are talking Urugay friendsship and how people there speak.

Your fella speaks truth but he still has the cultuar background from Spain. In the context of EU then this word should yes not be used so widely like this, but this is not worth game bans in the context Cavani did it. He rightfully apoligized and took it off. My BEEF is with FA and need to have Cavani banned from games because of this.

“It’s about questions of translation or context,” said Mark Sawyer, director of the Center for the Study of Race, Ethnicity and Politics at the University of California Los Angeles.

The word’s literal translation is “little black man.” But generally, negrito is not considered a racial slur in Latin America, Sawyer said. In fact, it frequently has a positive meaning.

“It’s often a term of endearment,” he said.

But what the word means also depends on where – and how – it’s said.

“In Puerto Rico, it has one meaning. In Cuba it has a slightly different connotation and in the Dominican Republic it has a slightly different connotation,” said Jorge Chinea, director of the Center for Chicano-Boricua Studies at Wayne State University in Detroit.

Chinea said his mother and stepfather, both of whom were light-skinned, frequently used the word.

“When they talked as a couple, my mother would say, ‘negrito, I love you.’ … I grew up listening to those expressions commonly being used by a lot of people in my community in Puerto Rico. And it was never associated with any color,” he said.

After he moved to the United States in the 1960s, Chinea said, the word took on a different meaning. Many of his acquaintances used racial nicknames, he said, but there was no harm intended.

“It was always more like a quick way of acknowledging the distinctiveness of that person in a very friendly way,” he said.

But Chinea said one of his Cuban colleagues in graduate school who employed the word drew criticism.

“When he used it and other people heard it, people came to me to complain. … In the United States, it sounds offensive to some people,” Chinea said.

In Uruguay, the meaning is clear, said U.S. radio talk show host Fernando Espuelas, who originally hails from the South American country.

“It’s not a slur whatsoever,” said Espuelas, whose show often addresses racism in the Latino community. “It’s a term of endearment. You definitely would not use that if you were angry. It would sound ridiculous.”

Several scholars said the word’s meaning could be connected with complicated racial politics in different Latin American countries, which each had unique historical experiences with colonization and the slave trade.
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He’s not ‘my’ fella mate. Just a guy in a podcast who I found enlightening and educational.

He’s just a very articulate black guy who happens to be married and have kids to a Spanish girl and is well versed over the past 7-years of being in the Latino/ Spanish culture.

I’d personally rather be educated on how someone directly in that background feels than the multitude of white people who have zero cultural knowledge trying to tell them how they should feel with ‘context.’

If we don’t listen to those directly affected just how are we supposed to understand and educate ourselves?
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
He’s not ‘my’ fella mate. Just a guy in a podcast who I found enlightening and educational.

He’s just a very articulate black guy who happens to be married and have kids to a Spanish girl and is well versed over the past 7-years of being in the Latino/ Spanish culture.

I’d personally rather be educated on how someone directly in that background feels than the multitude of white peoples who have zero cultural knowledge trying to tell them how they should feel with ‘context.’

If we don’t listen to those directly affected just how are we supposed to understand and educate our ourselves?
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Oeh..that was not my point. I understood that and I agree he has a point. Just telling that everyone can have opinion in this and cultuar aspect should also be taken into account. I am also not educating you how to think, just saying there is need to look other sides also. If you are pointing out that Sawyer is white, then he is not.

In the end, this Cavani thing is blown out of proportion. Just make a remark and he did react to it. If FA wants to do something about racism, they should go and defend players agains racism in twitter. One of the most horrible stuff goes there and playeres are effected by it.
 
If we're really going down this path then we shouldn't refer to Alvaro Negredo as "Negredo". His last name should be banned from football since context doesn't matter.
 
I don’t know if somethings getting lost here in translation or not Bujakaa mate but the more you say it’s ‘blown out of proportion’, the more you completely miss the point. And the more people have that attitude, the more things like this prevail.

It’s a completely unacceptable, derogatory term regardless of whatever context it’s used. No ‘ifs or buts.’ It shouldn’t be used. It’s HIGHLY offence to anyone of colour and latino’s use it as a slur.

It really is as simple as that and wants rightly condemning.

To effectively excuse it as something and nottin/ blown of proportion et al, and worse, for us not in that culture to try tell people who are how it should or shouldn’t offend them, makes us as big a part of the wider problem.
 
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Given the prevalence of ignorance, it’s a pertinent discussion that needs talking about.
 
The only thing funnier than trying to compare this to Suarez in anyway. Is how long it’s taken the FA to take action.....
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
Given the prevalence of ignorance, it’s a pertinent discussion that needs talking about.
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But you are not also accepting that different culture and people exist. I posted in quote text from person who was a teacher about race, ethnicity and politics who tries to explain this difference. I shall post another one then...

Nowhere I am telling who or how should be offended, please dont put words in my mouth. I understand the issue from Spanish lad view and community. But the BIG thing is that Spanish and Latin America culture and language nuances are different. Cavani understood that in EU this is not acceptable, even if it is from his cultural view. He got his warning PUBLICLY and was talked about this. This should be enough, not go on banning him from games where he makes his living.

If you are saying it unacceptable, derogatory term then it should be eradicated from every language and banned from names...

And now i am ignorant...

In Spanish, negro (feminine negra) is most commonly used for the color black, but it can also be used to describe people with dark-colored skin. In Spain, Mexico, and almost all of Latin America, negro (lower-cased, as ethnonyms are generally not capitalized in Romance languages) means just 'black colour' and it doesn't refer by itself to any ethnic or race unless further context is provided. As in English, this Spanish word is often used figuratively and negatively, to mean 'irregular' or 'undesirable', as in mercado negro ('black market'). However, in Spanish-speaking countries where there are fewer people of West African slave origin, such as Argentina and Uruguay, negro and negra are commonly used to refer to partners, close friends[22] or people in general, independent of skin color. In Venezuela the word negro is similarly used, despite its large West African slave-descended population percentage.

In certain parts of Latin America, the usage of negro to directly address black people can be colloquial. It is important to understand that this is not similar to the use of the word ***** in English in urban hip hop subculture in the United States, given that "negro" is not a racist term. For example, one might say to a friend, "Negro ¿Cómo andas? (literally 'Hey, black-one, how are you doing?'). In such a case, the diminutive negrito can also be used, as a term of endearment meaning 'pal'/'buddy'/'friend'. Negrito has thus also come to be used to refer to a person of any ethnicity or color, and also can have a sentimental or romantic connotation similar to 'sweetheart' or 'dear' in English. In other Spanish-speaking South American countries, the word negro can also be employed in a roughly equivalent term-of-endearment form, though it is not usually considered to be as widespread as in Argentina or Uruguay (except perhaps in a limited regional or social context). It is consequently occasionally encountered, due to the influence of *****, in Chicano English in the United States.
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Interesting that you took that personally when I generalised on whites trying to tell blacks what’s offensive and what’s not and how they should feel.

You can put up as many examples of people claiming it’s a non-offensive ‘endearing’ term as much as you want mate. If you dig hard enough you can find any number of people to back any argument.

But if you can’t see how inherently offensive that is in ANY culture to anyone black (not that a white person should be any less appalled), then I’m completely at a loss here? And anyone citing it (said examples) as claiming it is acceptable is as big a part of the problem as anyone using it. Oh, and for the record, there’s inherent similarities between the Spanish and Latin cultures. ****, most of F South America is Spanish! And anyone within that culture throwing that term around needs to have a long hard look at themselves and how offensive they are being to many in their own culture. It’s wilful ignorance.

I mistakingly, without looking it into as deeply as I should have from a black/ Latino perspective, ‘excused’ Suarez down to a different cultural context and it being acceptable to him. I was wrong. A racial slur is a racial slur however the narrative is spun.

You’re trying to defend the indefensible and the saddest thing of all is that there is even a discussion to that end.
 
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