You can't just go yawn yawn because he just took apart your point,. As for how long, as long as it takes without the players he needs. And the Fulham game is a one off compared to the rest of the season, yet you have made it the barometer. Why?
Ohhhh yawn yawn yawn Joel.. seriously... we played bottom club Fulham and had Mata and Januzaj this season. How can we continue to argue about this, it's beyond me. How long does he need to set his tactics up.
Most common criticism today - too many crosses.
Fair cop the average crosses per game this year has risen from 25 per game (p.g) to a league high 29. But is 4 crosses a game that huge a deal? City are 3rd on this stat with 24 a game and it's not an accusation you hear hurled at Pelligrini and co.
Number of through balls may be more telling, dropping from an average of 3 p.g last year to 1 p.g this year. (Is that as simple as the Scholes effect?)
United have become long ball merchants? There has been a rise in longballs. Averaging 62 p.g this year compared to 59 last year. Again this is not a huge difference and the stat is the same as Chelsea though and less than Spurs and Everton.
They are focusing too much on the flanks? Last year 28% of play came through middle 32% on left and 40% on right. This year has been a slight change 24% through middle 34% left and 42% right but again this is does not seem a ridiculous swing vastly altering the areas of pitch United play football in, though tellingly 24% is the lowest % in the league. (And if you are going to play so much down the right get a more effective winger than Tony V)
Possession is pretty much the same dropping from 56.2% to 55%, pass completion from 85.7% to 84%
Number of shots on goal has remained static and the amount of dribbles has actually increased from 6.7 p.g to 9.1
For me the difference is having a penetrative midfielder in the shape of Paul Scholes, is Moyes favouring the flanks so much because he knows he doesn't have the penetration further back in midifield so has no other option to create a goal threat? I'd say it's likely.
Until the Scholes shaped hole in midfield has been replaced this United team will be found out, this was evident 2+ years ago when City won league and fergie begged him out of retirement and has still not been addressed. Moyes isn't doing a good job, that is clear and I'm not defending him but where and how he has United playing is not as hugely different from latter day Fergie as we keep hearing.
This could last all night, all I will say is that we're Manchester United not Everton. Every game is important and every result matters. Not only do we keep making excuses for Moyes but we also think this guy is going to somehow revolutionise everything in the summer, I think you're going to be disappointed.
Lets stop comparing things to the guy who is the greatest manager who has ever lived or blaming him in anyway. He didn't address the midfield issue... admittedly. But the new manager had time to do so and you forget Fergie did lay some foundations anyway... Smalling.. Jones... Rafael... De Gea.... Januzaj... Kagawa... Zaha. Hardly anything bad now is it.
All valid points, although F?bio has left to join Cardiff permanently.SAF is partly to blame for this. He was a great manager, but he knew he was leaving soon and he never properly brought in a new team as he had done throughout his career. A new team should have been slowly introduced and faded in over the last 3 years.
Evra is old, Ferdinand is old, Vidic is nearly finished although still great when he's playing. Rafael is fine but perhaps not quite the player we need him to be (yet).
Carrick is old but still brilliant, Fletcher has a bed reserved at the local hospital, Anderson has not been good enough for years. Giggs? brilliant player, great legend, but let's not pretend he's good enough against the top teams anymore, maybe for the last 15 minutes or in a cup game and definitely behind the scenes he's essential but we need to be able to compete against other big teams.
Van Persie is brilliant, Rooney should have left when he started acting bigger than the club but that said is a very valuable asset on and off the field. Hernandes is a great player, he needs to be used more.
Wingers, Valencia has lost his consistency but is still a great player, Nani probably deserves to play more but he is somehow even less consistent than he ever was. Young is a good player for us despite what anyone says.
We are weak in every position on the pitch with loads of old players, a few young players who are not yet ready, and very little in between.
GK we're fine. We need a LB, personally I like Buttner and Fabio and there are more essential positions to be filled.
CB, Evans isn't great but is good cover and better than people give him credit for. Ferdinand should be dropped and left to a role similar to what Giggs plays now, Vidic still has a role to fill, Jones deserves a place in the first team.
CM, Carrick and Fellaini need to be played, they are the two best midfielders we have. Definitely need another player here though.
LM Nani/Young would work fine here, nothing special except on their best day but good enough.
RM Valencia/Zaha same as above.
ST we're fine here.
I personally think a massive culling of the first team is needed. Sorry for all the waffle
If Fergie, one of the best managers in history, couldn't sign a top midfielder and get them to play attacking football in his last few years, then how do you expect Moyes to be able to?Why does everyone keep using Fergie's later years as an excuse? A new manager has come in and it's down to him to make his mark on the current team, quite simply he hasn't.
I'm pretty sure we were mostly always attack-minded under Fergie, this is a guy who was the creme de la creme though... even when he may of changed slightly in the last few years it was still amongst success.
Pretty much all owners aim to make a profit nowadays, and inject money into their clubs via high-interest loans.Tyton.. is that a honest question... what is wrong with the ******* Glazers?
Didn't you see the banner lately at Old Trafford ?600m reasons to leave.. or however they worded it.
Even though I agree with most of your points in this discussion, in the case of those two, one had a top manager (Mourinho); the other had a bottomless pit of cash - so even when Mark Hughes made some disastrous signings, they could rectify the mistakes by splashing out on some top-quality players (by enticing them with extremely high wages).No I'm talking about the rise of Chelsea and City, when they were mid table sides
Not one of those is in the biggest issue: Midfield. You keep dismissing it as an excuse, but you refuse to acknowledge its been an issure for years. saying "we're Manchester United" doesn't cut it. Which is why Newcastle thumped us 3-0 last season and smashed the midfield to pieces. Moyes job actually hinges on revolutionsing it. the difference is he is actually trying to. So I'm not going to write him off before he has even had the chance to try. You want to, go ahead, but don't expect me to listen. If we wrote everyone off before they had a proper chance we wouldn't be where we are as a club.
Fergies second was awful though. Moyes has arguably a tougher job, because he has a lot less leeway. How wont get 3 years of suffering. he has to make it count next season. Er I didn't ignore it, I called it a mistake, I mean we discussed this 3 months ago. you have written him off, you want him out the club.Why do you ignore the fact Moyes turned down Thiago? How much better do we need than HIM.
Not writing him off totally, but the performances have been awful and the tactics questionable.
By the way, you forget Fergie's first season was actually not that bad and there was promising signs. Not only this but it's totally different, Moyes is taking over Champions and isn't proved at the highest-level.
I'd forgotten that he existed until a few days ago, when someone mentioned him again. He used to be a very gifted player, if I recall correctly, so it's a shame that he's not seemed to fulfill his potential.Petrucci really isn't that great from what I've seen him. 0 Italian U21 caps to his name as well is disappointing as well. He is also 22 now, doubt he will make it through.
Why do you ignore the fact Moyes turned down Thiago? How much better do we need than HIM.
Ohhhh yawn yawn yawn Joel.. seriously... we played bottom club Fulham and had Mata and Januzaj this season. How can we continue to argue about this, it's beyond me. How long does he need to set his tactics up.
You're just missing the point entirely. Fergie played that way because he had to with the squad he had. Why do you expect tiki taka from Moyes when the midfield is by and large the same.
No I expected more play through the middle... considering our 2 goals came via that, even though we had 80+ crosses continuously for no apparent reason.
Against Arsenal we knew a draw was no good for us, had to be 3 pts. I wanted more adventure and more purpose with the ball, it was so slow and predictable.
Why didn't you expect it for the past 3 seasons? Because Fergie was untouchable and winning?
When you're winning it's acceptable, stop blaming Fergie for everything. The football under him was not as dire as this at all. There is a reason the record got broken by Moyes.
I didn't blame him. I'm just not gonna criticise Moyes for something that was the same as before he came. And the football was pretty much exactly the same. The areas we attack from, number of crosses per game etc. are all pretty much precisely the same as last year.
To be fair, winning is the most important thing, and the one thing Fergie managed to do which Moyes has struggled with this season. It doesn't have to be pretty, but you can't deny that United have underachieved under Moyes so far, whatever the tactics.I didn't blame him. I'm just not gonna criticise Moyes for something that was the same as before he came. And the football was pretty much exactly the same. The areas we attack from, number of crosses per game etc. are all pretty much precisely the same as last year.
When you're winning it's acceptable, stop blaming Fergie for everything. The football under him was not as dire as this at all. There is a reason the record got broken by Moyes.