A new manager playing the same tactics with the same players as his predecessor while dropping points left, right and center. I would be rather concerned by that.
The Manchester United Thread
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This is the extremes I was talking about. Either people find excuses for every Moyes mistakes or find excuses not to Praise any good Moyes has done.
There is a middle ground too people, it need not have to be always two extreme ends.
Eeeryone covers the middle ground except zzeezzy. The juxtaposition used to used to show the heavy flaw in his logic. I mean, Moyes isnt Ferguson, not only on the of the greatest managers of all time, but also the man who built this side and knew their every weakness and strength. Moyes is not Ferguson, he was never going to be able to get away with what Fergsuon did. EVery little flaw that we have known we have has been shown up. And if you didnt (general you) realise we had these flaws, how closely are you watching the club? The signs have been there, we've all spoken of replacing Evra for years, we've all spoken about the midfield for years, we all spore about how important Carrick staying fit and on form was, we've all spoken about the wingers for 2 years. And suddenly people are shocked these are now apparent?
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I'm sure people are not shocked to find out we have weakness but how badly we have done.
Do you believe this is the 7th best team in the league?
IMO we should be in Top 4 comfortably, squad has weaknesses but it is massively exaggerated because of Moyes' mistakes and poor performances.
Like I said I for one will give him time and judge him from next season (calling for his head
) but he hasn't done anything positive to bring everyone to his side. We can judge him next season but IMO it's not wrong to point out the mistakes he has done. Well Zzeezzy has taken it very far tbh.I have to say if it was any other club he would have been sacked for taking Champions to 7th place but it looks out management have some sort of long term plans.
When Pep took charge at Barca/Bayern, they weren't already playing the style he wanted.
People keep going back to the midfield but in my mind that's not the real issue when the front 4 in the attack are the problem as well. I mean there is never an option to play through the middle due to the movement or lack of a lot of the time.
Take Pochettino at Southampton and Rodgers at Liverpool as examples as well. People keep saying about the players, but really that's just an excuse.
Lets keep kidding ourselves that the likes of Pep or anyone in that kind of play-style mould wouldn't be doing things differently. With a front 4 of Januzaj, Kagawa, Rooney/RVP and Mata they would have a ****** field day.
Like I say... the midfield may be one issue... but it is one of many now. The whole team looks immobile under Moyes and if you think 1 midfielder is going to suddenly change it and we'll see something totally different, then fine you can stick with that theory.
I can certainly see Pep buying a Fellaini lol!
Well done for missing the point, I didn't even look at the Bayern images I was just looking at the United ones and how there is always a lack of an option on the ball and lack of any attacking prowess. Even with the likes of Mata, Januzaj and Kagawa, we keep making excuses, personally I think Pep/Rodgers/Pochettino whoever else would have a field day with them, but somehow 1 midfielder will suddenly change everything.
I have plenty of valid points, it's hard to come up with any positives under Moyes so who can blame me.
People keep going back to the midfield but in my mind that's not the real issue when the front 4 in the attack are the problem as well. I mean there is never an option to play through the middle due to the movement or lack of a lot of the time.
Take Pochettino at Southampton and Rodgers at Liverpool as examples as well. People keep saying about the players, but really that's just an excuse.
Lets keep kidding ourselves that the likes of Pep or anyone in that kind of play-style mould wouldn't be doing things differently. With a front 4 of Januzaj, Kagawa, Rooney/RVP and Mata they would have a ****** field day.
Like I say... the midfield may be one issue... but it is one of many now. The whole team looks immobile under Moyes and if you think 1 midfielder is going to suddenly change it and we'll see something totally different, then fine you can stick with that theory.
I can certainly see Pep buying a Fellaini lol!
Well done for missing the point, I didn't even look at the Bayern images I was just looking at the United ones and how there is always a lack of an option on the ball and lack of any attacking prowess. Even with the likes of Mata, Januzaj and Kagawa, we keep making excuses, personally I think Pep/Rodgers/Pochettino whoever else would have a field day with them, but somehow 1 midfielder will suddenly change everything.
I have plenty of valid points, it's hard to come up with any positives under Moyes so who can blame me.
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Well, at least that keeps this thread alive. Boring, but alive. I'm kind of a person who doesn't like walking in circles over and over, but then patience is a gift.
Surely you can't see any light at the end of the tunnel with Moyes? We may have had a few problems under Fergie which people keep blaming him for. But people forget the foundations he did lay and the young players who we do have. Not to mention someone did raise a very good point, Fergie could of left Moyes with that transfer budget intentionally. 3 months to address a CM, it's really hard not to blame him for this season entirely considering he turned Thiago down.
I'll try.
Seems to me you have no idea what kind of players United have. United doesn't have versatile players who are capable playing expressive football every game. Bar few, we don't have players good on the ball when heat is on. We don't have threat from midfield, we didn't have right flank for whole season. We would all like to see that quick c-attack United is famous for, but there's no conductor in this United team. We no longer have Scholes who was key element with his vision. We have Cleverley who is simple footballer, nothing else. Carrick is good, but he just isn't creative enough. Rooney has his flashes of brilliance, but he's a ****** striker/attacking mid who simply isn't good enough on the ball to be passing outlet. All that combined with the fact that brilliant man named Ferguson left United after 27 years gets you the image in what condition players were. Then a few bad results, then another couple of losses with injuries to our key players and misfiring midfielders and wingers led to this. You'd be surprised how much creative midfielder means to a team. Look at Juventus and Pirlo. Moyes has massive job to do. Support him till the end of the season. He wont be sacked before for sure. Stop being a ******* hipster and help your club if you like it so much.
I’m not expecting it to the extreme of Pep but come on.. it’s not even anything right now. I’d argue we have some great foundations… Januzaj.. Mata… RVP… Kagawa…. Carrick (admittedly not creative)… Evans… Jones… Ferdinand….Rafael…. De Gea… Evra.
Some of them may be on the older side but they are all pretty good on the ball and our front 4 I mentioned at the start IMO can’t get much more expressive then that!
Like I keep mentioning…. He had 3 months to address a CM with a very good budget. We shouldn’t be even trying to play counter-attacking football primarily anymore with the attacking players we have such as what I mentioned and add Zaha to that list. There is not any pace to do that anyway really.
What you mention about Rooney is an interesting point, as good as he is I’m wondering whether shifting him on is a good thing this summer, not sure he’s really what we need at this moment to move forward. Rather keep Kagawa and try get them 3 with Januzaj and Mata linking.
Anyway time for me to stop.. adios amigo.
Fair enough
I'm sure people are not shocked to find out we have weakness but how badly we have done.
Do you believe this is the 7th best team in the league?
IMO we should be in Top 4 comfortably, squad has weaknesses but it is massively exaggerated because of Moyes' mistakes and poor performances.
Like I said I for one will give him time and judge him from next season (calling for his head
I have to say if it was any other club he would have been sacked for taking Champions to 7th place but it looks out management have some sort of long term plans.
If everything was going well I would call us about 3rd/4th. But no one banked on this not going well. It's not just that Moyes has struggled, everything else that could go wrong, has gone wrong. It's not like Moyes is 7th with the squad in the same state as last year. We've had a horrific injuries, and to key players as well, the very players we couldn't afford to lose for long periods. Last season the mid was pretty much Carrick, but we got away with it because he was on fire and stayed fully fit.
zzeezzy argues we shouldnt be playing counter attacking. Hard not to if you cant control the centre of the pitch something we havent done in years, because we don't have the players!He wants us to do this and that, but doesnt grasp that we need to make some big changes before that can happen, and it will be ****, but we're probably going to bob along in 6th/7th for the rest of the season before we can really attempt sort it out. If he can't handle that, he should go support someone else. Anyone can support a club when its going marginally well, much harder when it sucks, and we've never had it so good. Suddenly we're actually having to be like any other club and people are losing their heads. Just be happy the club isn't as panicky as some fans, or we'd really be in the *******.
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I agree that we had some big injury list through out the season but still with the squad we have/had we should have done lot better than 7th.
In the games we lost we missed with RVP or Rooney or Carrick but IMO we should have done lot better with one or two players missing. Like I said last season Rooney missed last season a lot so was Vidic but we somehow managed to win games.
I liked Moyes and I always believed he was someone who brought the best out of the players but for some reason he didn't even get 50% performance from our players. Maybe our senior players just didn't give him enough respect or maybe Moyes tried to change too much too early I don't know but it's so obvious we have under performed massively and even with the injury problems no way we should be fighting for the 7th place.
Yeah we don't have good enough players to control games like Bayern, Barca, Juventus but we have good enough players to control game against at least 16 teams in the league IMO. Not saying we should be playing possession game but like I said few months back, we were scared to attack and never attacked in numbers, never took risks so we didn't win enough games.
Terrible example. Everyone in Spain will tell you that Guardiola's Barcelona is based on Frank Rijkaard's Barcelona. Add a few tweaks and the best player in the world to that and voila. Something similar could be said of Bayern, with Pep inheriting arguably the best squad in world football, including a Ballon d'Or contender (there's been a while since you had one of those...), that had won aboslutely everything the season before.
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hughesman
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Amazing how to last 20+ pages have essentially the same argument with different words repeated over and over.
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You know what? I think with the kind of shape your squad is currently in, 7th is honestly about right.
Your midfield is truly awful. My Palace team have a more synergised duo in Ledley and Jedinak than you do in Carrick and Cleverley. Passer-runner worked fine when Rooney used to drop so deep to help out in defence, but now he's devoting more of his energies to attacking it's getting more and more fragile.
You're deservedly below the top four. City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool all have better teams than United by quite a margin. Spurs do too, now that Adebayor's hitting form. Everton are the only ones that have a squad weaker than United's, and they're in 6th anyway
You need to understand that four images to cover 90 minutes is utterly ******* laughable. I bet if you gave me the game footage I could make United look more of a short passing team than Bayern. They're completely cherry picked.