The Manchester United Thread

[andrichbrand]

[h=2]Next five fixtures[/h]8 March: West Brom (a), Premier League
16 March: Liverpool (h), Premier League
19 March: Olympiakos (h), Champions League
22 March: West Ham (a), Premier League
25 March: Manchester City (h), Premier League

Out of these 5 fixtures, how many points (realistically) will we get out of these 4 premier league games and will we do anything against Olympiakos?
This know base on your and opponents current form.

 

[MANUMAD]

Next five fixtures

8 March: West Brom (a), Premier League
16 March: Liverpool (h), Premier League
19 March: Olympiakos (h), Champions League
22 March: West Ham (a), Premier League
25 March: Manchester City (h), Premier League

Out of these 5 fixtures, how many points (realistically) will we get out of these 4 premier league games and will we do anything against Olympiakos?
This know base on your and opponents current form.

This is my guess: draw/win/win but not qualify/loss/draw

 

[andrichbrand]

This is my guess: draw/win/win but not qualify/loss/draw

I think the Liverpool and City game with be games that decide (for me really) if Moyes should stay or go. Big losses there and he might have to go. Never mind losses to West Ham and West Brom, that should be winable games in any other season.

But I am a positive person so lets do: win/draw/win (but not qualify)/draw/loss (even though it breaks my heart to say it)

 

[Tyton]

Liverpool is a key fixture I guess. Confident win would be great. Draw is still good. But If 0:5 or another freak result like that happens - and Liverpool done it this season to better teams then United - then whatever is left of fan support is out of the door.

 

[MANUMAD]

Liverpool is a key fixture I guess. Confident win would be great. Draw is still good. But If 0:5 or another freak result like that happens - and Liverpool done it this season to better teams then United - then whatever is left of fan support is out of the door.

I know that people will be outraged but what Im going to say but Im 40 years old and have loved UTD since I was 8 and my dad took me to OT. I cant bear to see my beloved UTD being destroyed by a gormless useless idiot and fear that the more time he is given the more irreperable the damage he will cause (in the sense that we ll struggle to return to the cl). Yes people like Mike have a point when they say that if we let him go now who do we bring in but imho anybody would be better.

So it pains me to say that if it means getting rid of him this season I would prefer that we lose heavily to Lfc and Man City.

 

[Vanjagl]

I know that people will be outraged but what Im going to say but Im 40 years old and have loved UTD since I was 8 and my dad took me to OT. I cant bear to see my beloved UTD being destroyed by a gormless useless idiot and fear that the more time he is given the more irreperable the damage he will cause (in the sense that we ll struggle to return to the cl). Yes people like Mike have a point when they say that if we let him go now who do we bring in but imho anybody would be better.

So it pains me to say that if it means getting rid of him this season I would prefer that we lose heavily to Lfc and Man City.

Good for you. Thats the way to support your club. You would rather see United lose and Moyes get sacked than winning those two games and maybe get that 4th place.

 

[MANUMAD]

Good for you. Thats the way to support your club. You would rather see United lose and Moyes get sacked than winning those two games and maybe get that 4th place.

Yes. That 4th place is lost. Has been for some time now. Id rather see him sacked to save the club from him.

 

[Tyton]

Yes. That 4th place is lost. Has been for some time now. Id rather see him sacked to save the club from him.

Once upon a time I was willing to bet my right hand that United can't came a comeback by the end of the season.

So glad I didn't make that bet, it would suck having to ********** with my left.

 

[dasty]

Since the start of the season people had been saying that Man Utd will comeback roaring and surge up the table.

When the transfer window just ended, some of the Man Utd fans were mad at how farcical the whole transfer window was, but people were saying that things are fine, we still have a team that won the league firmly in tact...

During September, we have lost 3 games in the month but people are saying it's fine, it's just the tough schedule that we are handed, once we get through this we will surge up the table... We were 12th when the month ended.

Then came October, and we had a winning streak against weaker teams and people were optimistic again, some even think that we could challenge for the title. We were 8th at the end of the month. The same thing happened for November, although the Cardiff draw disappointed some, but people were still optimistic. We stayed at 8th, but we were only 3 points off 4th place.

We started December with 2 consecutive losses against Newcastle and Everton at home (lol), but we then went on a good run of form and beating a bunch of mid-table to relegation candidates and people started believing again. We ended the month at 6th, and are still only 3 points off 4th.

Then came the turn of the year. Despite signing Mata, the club had lost 5 out of 7 games (unless you want to count the Sunderland penalty game as a win, then feel free to do so). However, Newcastle who sold Cabaye were faring worse than us, and therefore we are able to stay as 7th, but were now 6 points off 4th place. The team that people were satisfied with at the start of the season is suddenly branded as a bunch of dross and at least 10 players need to be sold...

Finally, it's February. We started the month with a bang (losing to Stoke 2-1) and then continued to be mediocre throughout the month, managing only 1 win from 5 games against Crystal Palace while drawing Fulham and destroyed at Olympiakos. We ended the month at 6th (because Everton had a game in hand), and 11 points off 4th place.

Of course, you can still believe that we will somehow miraculously go on a winning streak and end the season strongly (miracles do exist, right?), but I prefer to believe in numbers and statistics and say that there is no chance of us ending up in 4th unless Suarez and Sturridge (these 2 players scored only 2 less goals than the whole Man Utd squad managed in the league...) got injured

 

[Vanjagl]

Yes. That 4th place is lost. Has been for some time now. Id rather see him sacked to save the club from him.

It's always nice to see fans that share interests with club they support.

 

[MANUMAD]

It's always nice to see fans that share interests with club they support.

As Ive said repeatedly Moyes wont be sacked this season whatever happens in the Lfc or Man ****** matches. So its all "wishful" thinking on my part.

I do share the interests of the club I support (and travel thousands of miles to watch). I think the long term harm to Utd which will occur the longer he stays means its in our interests for him to go asap. I deffo wont be glad when I will be proven right (I expressed my alarm at his appointment and his preseason on this here thread and was told by people that I sounded like a paranoiac Arsenal fan) but I will be proven right and he will go. Unfortunately it will be much later than it would be healthy ...

 

[Vanjagl]

As Ive said repeatedly Moyes wont be sacked this season whatever happens in the Lfc or Man ****** matches. So its all "wishful" thinking on my part.

I do share the interests of the club I support (and travel thousands of miles to watch). I think the long term harm to Utd which will occur the longer he stays means its in our interests for him to go asap. I deffo wont be glad when I will be proven right (I expressed my alarm at his appointment and his preseason on this here thread and was told by people that I sounded like a paranoiac Arsenal fan) but I will be proven right and he will go. Unfortunately it will be much later than it would be healthy ...

Sometimes supporting your manager isn't supporting United. My question is, is Moyes that bad. You said you are 40 (I think you did). I'm much younger and I don't remember United from the days SAF took it. But I have pretty good idea that Saf was at least as bad as Moyes is. Yes, he made many mistakes this season, some of them were huge, mostly rotational and tactic wise. But wishing your club to lose just because you don't think manager is good enough is wrong. You can say whatever you want, it doesn't change that fact.

 

[Alcaraz]

Sometimes supporting your manager isn't supporting United. My question is, is Moyes that bad. You said you are 40 (I think you did). I'm much younger and I don't remember United from the days SAF took it. But I have pretty good idea that Saf was at least as bad as Moyes is. Yes, he made many mistakes this season, some of them were huge, mostly rotational and tactic wise. But wishing your club to lose just because you don't think manager is good enough is wrong. You can say whatever you want, it doesn't change that fact.

You can't really compare SAF and Moyes when they started their reigns respectively. SAF inherited a team that was mid-table at best and even flirted with relegation. Moyes has inherited a team that were champions last season and have only improved personnel-wise since. Not to mention all the other advantages such as a huge transfer war-chest, global fan support etc.

 

[Vanjagl]

You can't really compare SAF and Moyes when they started their reigns respectively. SAF inherited a team that was mid-table at best and even flirted with relegation. Moyes has inherited a team that were champions last season and have only improved personnel-wise since. Not to mention all the other advantages such as a huge transfer war-chest, global fan support etc.

Yea, I missed the part where I meant to say that they aren't that comparable, but point is, sometimes you need to be more patient.

 

[MANUMAD]

Sometimes supporting your manager isn't supporting United. My question is, is Moyes that bad. You said you are 40 (I think you did). I'm much younger and I don't remember United from the days SAF took it. But I have pretty good idea that Saf was at least as bad as Moyes is. Yes, he made many mistakes this season, some of them were huge, mostly rotational and tactic wise. But wishing your club to lose just because you don't think manager is good enough is wrong. You can say whatever you want, it doesn't change that fact.

Alcaraz's answer is spot on. But here's some more:

1. SAF inherited a club that was allover the place (if memory serves after a 4-1 drubbing vs Southampton which was not unusual then.
2. You will notice I used the word club cos it was not just a problematic squad he inherited. This stuff is well documented but let me remind you of some examples: the run down training complex, the pretty non - existent scouting system, the drinking culture that afflicted our "best" players such as Paul Mc Grath. These were the "best" players we had but they also had to be shipped out in order for the drinking culture to stop. Only B Robson remained despite his drinking exploits.
3. The team had gone on for 20 years without winning the league and rarely threatened to break that trend - only exception was Atkinson's 1984(?) team leading the league even by 14 points at some point but still conspiring to lose it.
4. It was a very different financial climate, no sugar daddies etc. That is very important cos back then you could afford much more to be patient as it wasnt as difficult as it is now to return to the top 4 cl places once you fell out - see the struggles of LFC as an example.
5. There really cannot be a comparison with what MOYES inherited - a squad full of internationals who were champions by 11 points (an unbalanced squad and one in need of fixing yes but not worse than Chelsea's -when he took over not now- imho), state of the art training complex the envy of most top teams, scouting system covering the whole world etc.

 

[Alcaraz]

As fans have mentioned this season, United's season is more or less winding down. Best bet now is to wait till the summer and move quickly for summer targets. For my money, Moyes has until Christmas to keep his job. Much will depend on what he does in the summer and whether he is able to mould a team afterwards

 

[MANUMAD]

And another thing - lets say for example that we want to attract 3 top players- one from Italy one from Spain and a South American. Manchester can be nice but its not London (which for the latin/mediterranean mentality which I know full well being half mediterranean myself is not that great either mainly due to weather). Its not cosmopolitan enough and it rains "all the time" etc. Now I dont know how many places you ve visited but if you go to Barcelona/Madrid/Milan etc they are lovely "playgrounds" for rich young people who have grown up with the said mentality. Plus "latin" players even from South America grow up with preconceived notions about Real Madrid/Barcelona etc. Our own Cristiano Ronaldo is an example of that (he loved Utd adored SAF but still dreamed to play there). So unless the player is a crazy Utd fan the only 3 other reasons to choose us over any of the top continental teams are: money (which others can offer more/comparable of), likely success (if you are a 21 yo world class player from Spain watching Utd this season do you actually see this happening any time soon?!) and playing under a respected manager (how many players came to us cos of SAF?- does anybody really think that many world class players will see gloomy Manchester in the middle of England, our "performance" this season , Moyes' actions this season and think "Oh yes Id love to play under him"!). Mickey Phelan recently acknowledged that we ll have a problem attracting top players when we dont make the cl and that Moyes should have two shopping lists one for cl and one without it. To say nothing that I think that even if he attracts 3/4 players that he wants Moyes wont know exactly what to do with them and even if he does if there are wholesale changes (which I dont advocate) as is being rumoured we have the Spurs example of this season about the problems of quickly integrating many players at once.

 

[sunilvk7]

Yea, I missed the part where I meant to say that they aren't that comparable, but point is, sometimes you need to be more patient.

Or sometimes you just agree that you made a mistake and move on. Work both ways, while I don't want ManUtd to become like Chelsea who fires manager even after winning league for 2 years and double winning manager, I also don't want ManUtd to give manager time just for the sake of it. In our whole history we were really blessed/lucky that we had 2 of the greatest ever Scots managing us and I don't think it will repeart again.

 

[Vanjagl]

Alcaraz's answer is spot on. But here's some more:

1. SAF inherited a club that was allover the place (if memory serves after a 4-1 drubbing vs Southampton which was not unusual then.
2. You will notice I used the word club cos it was not just a problematic squad he inherited. This stuff is well documented but let me remind you of some examples: the run down training complex, the pretty non - existent scouting system, the drinking culture that afflicted our "best" players such as Paul Mc Grath. These were the "best" players we had but they also had to be shipped out in order for the drinking culture to stop. Only B Robson remained despite his drinking exploits.
3. The team had gone on for 20 years without winning the league and rarely threatened to break that trend - only exception was Atkinson's 1984(?) team leading the league even by 14 points at some point but still conspiring to lose it.
4. It was a very different financial climate, no sugar daddies etc. That is very important cos back then you could afford much more to be patient as it wasnt as difficult as it is now to return to the top 4 cl places once you fell out - see the struggles of LFC as an example.
5. There really cannot be a comparison with what MOYES inherited - a squad full of internationals who were champions by 11 points (an unbalanced squad and one in need of fixing yes but not worse than Chelsea's -when he took over not now- imho), state of the art training complex the envy of most top teams, scouting system covering the whole world etc.

Whole point of that post was that you need patience. United had patience with SAF and it was the best thing that could happen. Let's hope Moyes will learn from his mistakes, sacking manager during season can backfire massively.
Struggles of Liverpool are different than Uniteds. They lost quality in their squad, later on when they came back in top 4 they started selling their best players and not getting adequate replacements. Their transfer policy was really bad. United has great squad. Few more players and United will potentially be in top5 clubs.

I honestly don't care if someone think Moyes is the right man or not. Time will tell, but I find it very strange that someone want to lose to rivals just to get rid of manager. No matter how bad manager is, it ridiculous to want your club to lose to fierce rivals such as City and Liverpool. Sorry guy, but thats idiotic. IF Moyes IS that BAD, he'll show that in other games. No way those two games alone will tell us should Moyes stay or not.

 

[Vanjagl]

Or sometimes you just agree that you made a mistake and move on. Work both ways, while I don't want ManUtd to become like Chelsea who fires manager even after winning league for 2 years and double winning manager, I also don't want ManUtd to give manager time just for the sake of it. In our whole history we were really blessed/lucky that we had 2 of the greatest ever Scots managing us and I don't think it will repeart again.

You need to find balance. It things aren't working, then best decision is to sack your manager. Moyes isn't that bad that he deserves sacking pronto. Some players let United down as well, whole squad is on their minimum (part few players). If Moyes loses his plot and start doing weird things constantly, then yes, Glazers need to act. This situation is bad, but its far from point-of-no-return.

Anyway, I won't commenting on this Moyes situation, I explained my thoughts many times, to sum it: It's bad, but not that bad that United need new manager. Give him some more time, probably till summer. Then if needed, replace him.