The Manchester United Thread

[sunilvk7]

Van Gaal and De Boer does sound very tasty though, got to admit that.

De Boer is almost winning his 4th league title on trot IIRC, so why would he want to join ManUtd as Asst Managaer. He is wasy bigger than that and better than that.

If he joins then it would be as Manager IMO.

I wouldn't mind Van Gaal, he regularly falls out with players and management but he has some excellent track record of laying foundation for the future and he is a very good manager.

 

[zzeezzy]

De Boer is almost winning his 4th league title on trot IIRC, so why would he want to join ManUtd as Asst Managaer. He is wasy bigger than that and better than that.

If he joins then it would be as Manager IMO.

I wouldn't mind Van Gaal, he regularly falls out with players and management but he has some excellent track record of laying foundation for the future and he is a very good manager.

Dunno, ask the Sunday papers who are reporting it!

I'd like either of them to be honest, bored of Moyes now and the football we're playing is beyond a joke.

 

[MANUMAD]

-In almost every match we seem to be crippled by caution, including most recently against the weakest team in the remaining 16 of the cl.

-This is David Moyes in a nutshell - playing it safe, looking to hold what you have and showing none of the adventure required to achieve at the top level of the game. If you give him a Ferrari to test drive, he' ll come back and tell you the brakes are good.

-Admittedly Moyes is only one of a number of problems at Manchester United. However some of these problems he has exacerbated though someserve as mitigating factors in his appalling tenure so far.

-Whichever way you look at it this has not been a transitional season unless transition to utter **** is what we were aiming for. In truth, Moyes should have been sacked by now for what has been a catastrophic failure.

-The reality is that Utd is not owned by its fans, doesnt have a sugar daddy (not that Id want one) but is run as a business interest, and from afar. With this in mind it would be in everyone's best interests to change the current situation.

-So far Moyes failed (for whatever reason) to instil even the basic principles of his Everton reign at Old Trafford (and with a much better squad - a squad thats worse only to Man ******'s and Chelski's actually despite its problems), and last Tuesday's abject performance has reinforced this opinion. Where was the hunger from United? Where was the fight after going behind? It remained worryingly absent, as it has all season from a team who have repeatedly struggled to respond to setbacks. The Newcastle home match also comes into mind (though others could equally be remembered). We lost a goal in the 67th minute and yet we never showed any fight, hunger nothing - THIS IS NOT THE UTD that "we" have been builid for more than two decades!!!

-That one of Tuesday's back four is certain to leave in the summer - and two presumably set to follow - hasn't helped matters. That Tom Cleverley, Ashley Young and Antonio Valencia all know they will be replaced at the first opportunity is a further problem. But the biggest issue (and most alarming) is Robin van Persie's frustration. Twelve touches in the first half, 12 in the second, one wasted chance and an uncomfortable interview to Dutch television. Yes he has apologised to his teamates but does that change anything? It shows all is not well with our previously most effective player and more worryingly between the players. What with the misguided offering of a huge contract to Rooney, the possibility of the RVP leaving in the summer looks increasingly likely. As well as the possibility of causing strife in the squad. Also, is this another example of Moyes' caution - stick with the lad you know, the one who runs around a lot? Rooney's contract was surely also a priority for the Glazers, given the threat to the club's brand following the regime change. However, as I said previously, Im worried that Moyes is going about this rebuilding process in entirely the wrong way. We have seen with Spurs that it is extremely difficult to integrate so many new players, yet all the noises from Moyes suggest a similar plan at Old Trafford in the summer.

-While the players in public are making all the "right" noises about Moyes have we seen this really? There has been zero improvement in style and results. Perhaps SAF is clearly much better at football managing than he is at choosing successors?

-If Jose Mourinho/any manager with pedigree had guided United outside the top four - an almost unimaginable idea for Mourinho (look at what he has done with Chelski who had even more problems squad wise when he took over than we do now) - there would still be players who would want to play for Jose Mourinho. With Moyes I wonder who will want to join in the summer. It could be a case of throwing good money after bad.

-To all that we have replies by the Moyes apologists that we should give him time, we should let him try to bring in players he wants ... all fine sentiments if there was even a glimpse this season that he would know what to do with them if they come, which Im afraid they wont want to etc

 

[MANUMAD]

Trophies are not the only measure of a manager's success, so it's inaccurate to say that Moyes has done nothing in his career pre-United. He's done wonders on a small budget at Everton, albeit without winning a single trophy.

1. Trophies ARE the main measure of a manager's success if that manager wants to take one of the top jobs in world football! The same way Mourinho was right when saying Wenger is a specialist in failure (watching him fail again this year - as it has already started to happen - is one of the few minor nice things in football left for me after Moyes destruction of OUR season).
2. What exactly are these wonders that everybody seems to think he has done at Everton?! Is he really better than say SAM ALLARDYCE who keeps doing "wonders" with small teams? Oh and it took Rob Martinez half a season to do marginally better than Moyes at Everton and have them play better football.

About Van Gaal and De Boer - I dont believe they d both come tho if they do we could have the former being our manager for a few years then DeBoer would succeed him and ensure continuity.

 

[Joel`]

1. Trophies ARE the main measure of a manager's success if that manager wants to take one of the top jobs in world football! The same way Mourinho was right when saying Wenger is a specialist in failure (watching him fail again this year - as it has already started to happen - is one of the few minor nice things in football left for me after Moyes destruction of OUR season).

Tata Martino, Pep Guardiola, Diego Simeone, Jurgen Klopp etc. had all won next to **** all when they started at a 'big' club. Frank Rjikaard on the other hand is a CL winner, perhaps we should give him a call.

 

[Athe~]

Tata Martino, Pep Guardiola, Diego Simeone, Jurgen Klopp etc. had all won next to **** all when they started at a 'big' club. Frank Rjikaard on the other hand is a CL winner, perhaps we should give him a call.

You can always get Di Matteo, proven CL winner!

 

[zzeezzy]

You can always get Di Matteo, proven CL winner!

Rather keep Moyes than have Di Matteo, there is a reason he's not back in the game as a manager yet.

 

[Athe~]

Rather keep Moyes than have Di Matteo, there is a reason he's not back in the game as a manager yet.

I wasn't being serious

 

[Mike.]

Tata Martino, Pep Guardiola, Diego Simeone, Jurgen Klopp etc. had all won next to **** all when they started at a 'big' club. Frank Rjikaard on the other hand is a CL winner, perhaps we should give him a call.

This x 1000. Do people not understand this simple basic concept. Managers have to learn to succeed. Moyes will either learn to succeed or he will be sacked. One season means **** all if he learns from it. If the club don't show they give all the backing to moyes whether he stays or not, then good luck getting managers like klopp and simeone, who place a great deal of value in loyalty. And loyalty and faith is a big part of Manchester Uniteds identity, always has been. As for destroying a club, that's just ridiculous hyperbole.

 

[zzeezzy]

This x 1000. Do people not understand this simple basic concept. Managers have to learn to succeed. Moyes will either learn to succeed or he will be sacked. One season means **** all if he learns from it. If the club don't show they give all the backing to moyes whether he stays or not, then good luck getting managers like klopp and simeone, who place a great deal of value in loyalty. And loyalty and faith is a big part of Manchester Uniteds identity, always has been. As for destroying a club, that's just ridiculous hyperbole.

Still... bit worrying when we're in March and no signs of any progress at all. Every season means something, this bad season will have a bearing on our summer transfers for sure therefore effecting future seasons in some way.

 

[TheFalse9]

1. Trophies ARE the main measure of a manager's success if that manager wants to take one of the top jobs in world football! The same way Mourinho was right when saying Wenger is a specialist in failure (watching him fail again this year - as it has already started to happen - is one of the few minor nice things in football left for me after Moyes destruction of OUR season).
2. What exactly are these wonders that everybody seems to think he has done at Everton?! Is he really better than say SAM ALLARDYCE who keeps doing "wonders" with small teams? Oh and it took Rob Martinez half a season to do marginally better than Moyes at Everton and have them play better football.

About Van Gaal and De Boer - I dont believe they d both come tho if they do we could have the former being our manager for a few years then DeBoer would succeed him and ensure continuity.

This is a horribly misguided post.

Wenger is not a specialist in failure by any means - his sixteen trophies say otherwise. Admittedly, he's had a trophy drought at Arsenal in recent years, but it's not like he's spent lavishly without any success, or that they've missed out on Champions League football. Mourinho's success is down to the resources he's had at his disposal as much as his managerial talent, since he's managed at clubs who had either a good squad, or a lot of money.

Regarding Mart?nez, there's no doubt he's done a good job at Everton so far, but it's been with a squad largely built by Moyes and with the somewhat lucky addition of Lukaku. And anyway, they're not in the European spots, which is where Everton often were under Moyes, so that point is basically invalid.

Essentially, what I'm trying to say is, the examples you've used don't really prove your point that well, since Wenger is definitely not a specialist in failure and Mart?nez hasn't eclipsed the achievements of Moyes.

 

[Mike.]

Still... bit worrying when we're in February and no signs of any progress at all. Every season means something, this bad season will have a bearing on our summer transfers for sure therefore effecting future seasons in some way.

There are players we could sign regardless. Because most people realise that united won't tolerate a decline are actively looking to go back to being the best. And by best I mean 2006-2009 level. Players will want to buy into that. And if moyes can't inspire that, then he will be sacked. It's no secret that united are looking to be more aggressive in the market than ever before. And even not being at our best, people still want to join and play at such a club. Holding on to Rooney and getting someone like mata are the opening salvos. Moyes has a job on, he either succeeds or falls by the way side. He will be judged on his early transfer business. It's not all about getting Vidal etc

 

[zzeezzy]

There are players we could sign regardless. Because most people realise that united won't tolerate a decline are actively looking to go back to being the best. And by best I mean 2006-2009 level. Players will want to buy into that. And if moyes can't inspire that, then he will be sacked. It's no secret that united are looking to be more aggressive in the market than ever before. And even not being at our best, people still want to join and play at such a club. Holding on to Rooney and getting someone like mata are the opening salvos. Moyes has a job on, he either succeeds or falls by the way side. He will be judged on his early transfer business. It's not all about getting Vidal etc

Vidal isn't even realistic, unless we're dreaming. But we need players who can make a difference or else it's pointless. The players that can make a difference will be players who are chased by other clubs.

 

[Tyton]

Van Gaal is going to be available after WC.

 

[Mike.]

Vidal isn't even realistic, unless we're dreaming. But we need players who can make a difference or else it's pointless. The players that can make a difference will be players who are chased by other clubs.

There are more players that can make the difference than there are clubs trying to sign them.

 

[CJACKO11]

The idea of wanting our team to lose in the hope the manager gets sacked is appalling. That's all I will say.

Contradicts the word "supporter" if people wish that surely? Look i had someone in charge of my club last season who i absolutely hated with a passion but i never wanted us to lose (to be fair if we did he already done what he could to make that happen anyway) you support your team regardless.

Van Gaal and De Boer does sound very tasty though, got to admit that.

I bought Van Gaal's name up in here about a week ago, as i said yes he is linked with Spurs but if Spurs and Utd both wen in for him then he would not be turning up in North London even if they got Champions League football!

I doubt De Boer would want to join you, he's rejected bigger clubs in the past because of his loyalty to Ajax.

Think De Boer has done everything he can ever do with Ajax. Me personally would break the bank for Klopp, he can do nothing else with Dortmund now and for me a mark of a good manager is not just someone who can bring in top names its someone who can improve what he has and look at the work Klopp has done to individuals at Dortmund!

Rather keep Moyes than have Di Matteo, there is a reason he's not back in the game as a manager yet.

I love Robbie and he will forever be a Chelsea legend as a player and obviously as a manager but personally think he is a better coach or manager at a smaller level. Didn't do much apart from tell the players "they know what to do" when he took over which to be fair is a good trait he realized that but it won't work anywhere else.

 

[MANUMAD]

Tata Martino, Pep Guardiola, Diego Simeone, Jurgen Klopp etc. had all won next to **** all when they started at a 'big' club. Frank Rjikaard on the other hand is a CL winner, perhaps we should give him a call.

1. Please dont take what I say out of context. I said that he has not won anything previously NOR shown anything since appointed to show he knows what he's doing/how to improve us.
2. Do you think Martino/Klopp/Guardiola would (have) stay(ed) for long in their posts if they had shown themselves to be half as clueless as Moyes has so far?
3. Simeone is NOT at a big club. Or rather he' s at a club which has a tradition of being rather ridiculous ...
4. Id take Rajkard over Moyes any day.

 

[MANUMAD]

This is a horribly misguided post.

Wenger is not a specialist in failure by any means - his sixteen trophies say otherwise. Admittedly, he's had a trophy drought at Arsenal in recent years, but it's not like he's spent lavishly without any success, or that they've missed out on Champions League football. Mourinho's success is down to the resources he's had at his disposal as much as his managerial talent, since he's managed at clubs who had either a good squad, or a lot of money.

Regarding Mart?nez, there's no doubt he's done a good job at Everton so far, but it's been with a squad largely built by Moyes and with the somewhat lucky addition of Lukaku. And anyway, they're not in the European spots, which is where Everton often were under Moyes, so that point is basically invalid.

Essentially, what I'm trying to say is, the examples you've used don't really prove your point that well, since Wenger is definitely not a specialist in failure and Mart?nez hasn't eclipsed the achievements of Moyes.

1. Wenger hasnt won a trophy in 8 seasons! He wouldnt have lasted half as long without winning anything (and justifiably so) in any other "top" club in Europe. All that he has managed is to turn Arsenal into a nice feeder club to the real top teams who actually play this mythical thing called "beautiful" football that has no bite, fight or bottle. Not missing CL football is hardly an achievement for a top team.

2. You have a point on Mourinho but others take over teams with resources and/or good squads and do **** all whereas he consistently produces.

3. Rob Martinez. Moyes hardly used Barkley. He does. He lost arguably their best player in Fellaini. You say that Everton are not in European spots? They are 6th two points off Spurs and in the Euro League spots! Also, Everton were "frequently" in the European spots under Moyes you say?! Mate ask an Everton supporter, he only qualified once for CL and then lost in preliminary round (pretty badly if I remember correctly) and was in Europa league 2/3 times but never made it too far. So this point is basically quite valid.

4. Wenger IS a specialist in failure if the last 8 seasons are anything to go by (and you can add this season to it as well.

5. Martinez is only at Everton for 2/3 of a season. Its not exactly difficult to eclipse the "achievements" of Moyes at Everton. Who incidentally has never managed to beat a top team away EVER!!!!

 

[epic terrorist]

1. Wenger hasnt won a trophy in 8 seasons! He wouldnt have lasted half as long without winning anything (and justifiably so) in any other "top" club in Europe. All that he has managed is to turn Arsenal into a nice feeder club to the real top teams who actually play this mythical thing called "beautiful" football that has no bite, fight or bottle. Not missing CL football is hardly an achievement for a top team.

2. You have a point on Mourinho but others take over teams with resources and/or good squads and do **** all whereas he consistently produces.

3. Rob Martinez. Moyes hardly used Barkley. He does. He lost arguably their best player in Fellaini. You say that Everton are not in European spots? They are 6th two points off Spurs and in the Euro League spots! Also, Everton were "frequently" in the European spots under Moyes you say?! Mate ask an Everton supporter, he only qualified once for CL and then lost in preliminary round (pretty badly if I remember correctly) and was in Europa league 2/3 times but never made it too far. So this point is basically quite valid.

4. Wenger IS a specialist in failure if the last 8 seasons are anything to go by (and you can add this season to it as well.

5. Martinez is only at Everton for 2/3 of a season. Its not exactly difficult to eclipse the "achievements" of Moyes at Everton. Who incidentally has never managed to beat a top team away EVER!!!!

to be fair to moyes Everton didn't lose badly to Villareal it was by a couple of goals and they had Riquelme in his prime Forlan senna sorin among others was hardly a pub team and I'm sure they got to the semis too

Edit just pulled this from uefa website look who finished bottom of villarreals group lol

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2005/clubs/club=70691/matches/index.html

 

[MANUMAD]

to be fair to moyes Everton didn't lose badly to Villareal it was by a couple of goals and they had Riquelme in his prime Forlan senna sorin among others was hardly a pub team and I'm sure they got to the semis too

Edit just pulled this from uefa website look who finished bottom of villarreals group lol

UEFA Champions League 2005/06 - History - Villarreal ? UEFA.com

1. I did say if memory serves. But Im right about them only qualifying once in CL and a couple of times for Europa League.
2. Yeah I remember that disaster ...